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2011 E90 gets Musicar Level Three plus DSP
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04-29-2013, 10:25 AM | #23 |
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04-29-2013, 11:04 AM | #24 | |
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04-29-2013, 11:06 AM | #25 |
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I'm exactly of same opinion.
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04-29-2013, 11:18 AM | #26 | |||
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Is it not 55W X 8 ? Here is what it says on the website MATCH 8 CH PP82 DSP amplifier Class HD - 8-channel amplifier plug and play, 8 x 55 Watts @ 4 Ohm / 8 x 70 Watts @ 2 ohms. +10
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04-29-2013, 11:42 AM | #27 | |
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Maybe I'll still give the MS-8 a whirl (I bought it a while ago but haven't got around to fitting it yet) - the manual tuning sounds like a minefield. |
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04-29-2013, 12:22 PM | #28 | |
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The processing is where the 8ms delay is. |
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04-29-2013, 04:10 PM | #30 | |
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The H800 requires an external RUX controller while the Helix does not. The H800 can handle direct HiFi balanced inputs via RCA while the "old" Helix DSP accepts balanced inputs via the same wired inputs as the high level port. VP Electricity can elaborate more in this regard. I have the H800 and it sounds great to me. It is more complicated and time consuming to set it up than the MS-8, however it does not have any of the restrictions after autotuning as the MS-8. Meaning, once it autotune you can change all the crossovers, slopes, attenuation, input/output levels, T/A. There are several DSP modes (Euphony, Dolby Pro Logic, MP3 compensation) available. There is no midbass hole and no echo. I have no experience with the Helix DSP, but its interface seems similar to the Zapco DSP. So it should be easily understood and powerful at the same time. |
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04-29-2013, 04:37 PM | #31 |
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I prefer the Alpine. It does some more things (some of which I don't care about), and it probably sounds a hint better in a reference system. It has more presets, and it has RoadEQ as an option, and the controller is very nicely made.
Costs more, too. That's why we use the Helix more. |
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04-29-2013, 05:05 PM | #32 |
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Thanks guys for affirming my decision. One thing about the alpine I don't understand, what does the 'gain' setting on the crossovers mean? Why would you need another setting other than frequency and slope for crossovers?
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04-29-2013, 05:45 PM | #33 | |
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The thing is, all those adjustments are just there. You do not have to use them all, pick and choose. |
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04-29-2013, 07:01 PM | #34 | ||||
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04-29-2013, 07:21 PM | #35 | |
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Oh, the requirement of the RUX-C800 controller is something that Technic and I have both complained about in the past. When you compare these prices, remember you MUST have that also plugged in! |
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04-30-2013, 05:40 AM | #36 | |
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I have installed it and used it. Too much processing for my taste but client loves it They loved the sound from central speaker and ambience from rear speakers.
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04-30-2013, 05:43 AM | #37 | |
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what is your take on the delay? If other processors can tackle with it (assuming that they do not delay anything with vocals without music), then why can't MS-8? Is it not as simple as for the processor to recognize that when vocals are there without a music, then cancel the delay to avoid any echo issues? (it may effect some tracks starting with vocals only).
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04-30-2013, 08:59 AM | #38 |
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Yes, we looked into it. Awfully pricey.
We offer pretuned DSP for certain of our packages where we've done the install before and we have the files. Eliminates the auto tune benefit, when its already done for you |
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04-30-2013, 09:02 AM | #39 |
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I suspect that the mS-8, which took years and years to finish for Harman, used inch slow HW, along with poorly written code, that this caused the delay. It may have just been the code.
We have installed a lot of DSPs here an the MS8 has been the only one we've ever seen which exceeds the ability of the echo canceling feature to compensate. |
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04-30-2013, 01:29 PM | #40 |
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I'm a little late to the party but nice install Ken! That Helix SW looks and from your description sounds close to the Arc PS8 I'm using now. I wonder how it compares. I'm still messing around with mine trying to get it to sound exactly right.
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05-01-2013, 06:23 AM | #41 |
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The latest version of the Helix DSP PC-Tool includes a nice PDF on tuning, suggesting the use of the freeware Praxis measurement application and a USB microphone.
They also say that ATF Real-Time Analyzer Software is now implemented in the DSP PC-Tool v2.80 |
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05-01-2013, 07:48 AM | #42 | |
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We know that the delay is not the Logic7 processing just because that's not what JBL is disabling with their update "fix". It could be the DSP chip/code itself. However, they named the sucker MS-8 because of that 8ms delay. So it seems to me that it is by design. Most probably they needed all those 8ms to do the real-time correction set by the acoustic calibration that they wanted. Otherwise they would be celebrating a slow-ass DSP... |
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05-01-2013, 11:19 AM | #43 |
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The PS8 is a very nice piece of gear. I got to see it in development in Robert Zeff's lab... I think the hardware is great. We brought in a couple early on and there have been a number of firmware revisions to it, and I think they are still working on the digital input side a bit.
We may carry it again in the future. For most installations, the Helix does everything we need. I think the PS8 is better, but the flagship piece for us is the Alpine H800. They already have a stable digital input side and they have a controller available too. The controller isn't needed in BMW with the Mobridge DA piece, but there have been a few issues with the PS2 and the DA pieces as far as jitter tolerance goes. I'm sure they will be sorted out. |
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05-01-2013, 11:21 AM | #44 |
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I don't believe the "8" corresponds to the delay. I think the "8" corresponds to the number of output channels. The product was named years and years before the design was near finalized, so the duration of the delay could not have been predicted.
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