[cstmx_ryder]

Just wanted to know, if I'm interested in learning how A/F ratio, ignition correction, and engine knock works with a tuned 335, where(if any) can I find the documentation that explains how everything works and what they are suppose to be according to certain mods that I have.

I think it's a good idea for Vishnu to come up with another documentation that explains how and what to tweak to get the maximum hp/tq out of our cars. Or is that too long to write up and teach us noobs on tuning our own cars?

I'm all up for learning new thing like the ones I mentioned above, but yet, everytime I ask this question, I get no reply, or I get replies like 'just leave it alone at the default setting'.

If that's the case, what's the point of having all these available options if the users don't know how to utilize them to their fullest potentials?

I think this is valuable information as the PROcede is getting more and more complex in the sense that it allows users to adjust/tweak/control the parameters of the ECU. It will also educate and prevent users from blowing up their turbos( I know this is very unlikely to happen with the PROcede). Just my .02

Please chime in, I want to see if anyone else is in the same boat as I am.

[neo_]

I'd like to see an actual feature to be able to let us adjust our fuel maps, ignition maps, boost tables, and etc..

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

If that's the case, what's the point of having all these available options if the users don't know how to utilize them to their fullest potentials?

I think this is valuable information as the PROcede is getting more and more complex in the sense that it allows users to adjust/tweak/control the parameters of the ECU. It will also educate and prevent users from blowing up their turbos( I know this is very unlikely to happen with the PROcede). Just my .02

Please chime in, I want to see if anyone else is in the same boat as I am.

That's what is actually keeping me away from buying a procede at this stage. It's rather complex and I don't want to mess around with my car without getting real in-depth info on what this stuff is all about. So many variables, lots of space for (human) mistakes, mess-ups

[OpenFlash]

You don't have to do anything with the PROcede once you get it. It comes preprogrammed with the right map for your car setup. There is no need to fiddle with anything. But for those who want to extract the last few % of power safely or want to customize their tune for their particular needs, we provide the necessary interface. Simple as that. I'd say that well over 70% don't modify the default mapping at all.

Shiv

Shiv

[smdandb2]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You don't have to do anything with the PROcede once you get it. It comes preprogrammed with the right map for your car setup. There is no need to fiddle with anything. But for those who want to extract the last few % of power safely or want to customize their tune for their particular needs, we provide the necessary interface. Simple as that. I'd say that well over 70% don't modify the default mapping at all.

Shiv

Shiv

Fin!

If you don't understand the basics, don't touch anything. All the stuff you asked about is basic information that is applicable to any car.

[GeorgeSmooth]

What you looking for comes in a 4800 page Seimens/ VDO document.
I don't think any tuner that sells a ready tuned device will open it completely to full user tuning. If something goes wrong then people blame the Procede/Jb or whatever and not what was punched in.

[smdandb2]

Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth

What you looking for comes in a 4800 page Seimens/ VDO document.
I don't think any tuner that sells a ready tuned device will open it completely to full user tuning. If something goes wrong then people blame the Procede/Jb or whatever and not what was punched in.

Not even that tells you how to 'tune' the car and what is acceptable.

That book is just for the hardware and software of the DME.

[cstmx_ryder]

Um.......So everytime you come across something that you don't understand, then you just leave things the way they are and not wanting to learn and expand your knowledge on those certain things?

Sorry, but I'm not like that. I would like to know, or learn more about tuning the N54 engines. For all of you out there that understands the inner workings of the N54, must have learned/read somewhere that helped them better understand what they're looking at when datalogging........

That's what I AM looking for!!

Originally Posted by smdandb2

Fin!

If you don't understand the basics, don't touch anything. All the stuff you asked about is basic information that is applicable to any car.

[smdandb2]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

Um.......So everytime you come across something that you don't understand, then you just leave things the way they are and not wanting to learn and expand your knowledge on those certain things?

Sorry, but I'm not like that. I would like to know, or learn more about tuning the N54 engines. For all of you out there that understands the inner workings of the N54, must have learned/read somewhere that helped them better understand what they're looking at when datalogging........

That's what I AM looking for!!

Yeah, but it is not an N54 thing.

It is just general tuning that applies to pretty much any internal combustion engine. Granted each engine is a bit different, but you need to know the basics first.

If you wan't to learn, pick up some books on tuning EFI cars. You don't need any N54 specific stuff for starters.

Until someone takes an N54 and runs it to destruction on an engine dyno (its been done already) and shares that information, you won't find what you are looking for (which to me seems like you want the LIMITS of what can be run). I am a JimC fanboi (haha) but Shiv has done his homework. The Procede and such are ready to run. If you want to play with settings, you need to understand what they are and just NOT blindly put in what other people have used for similar mods. What works on someone elses car probably won't work on your car. That is why you need a fundamental understanding of tuning in general.

You get what I am saying?

[cstmx_ryder]

^^ Agreed!

And that's why I haven't touched those parameters yet(ignition correction, knock, etc.) That's also why I'm asking this question. Because I want to learn, and if the only way to do that is to pick up a book, then I guess I have no other choice.

I guess what I'm after is that I hope Shiv would show/teach us(the noobs) the basics. Obviously, Shiv's well educated in this regard, so why not share the knowledge?

i.e. If someone doesn't understand something, and I do, then I'd be more than happy to explain/help another fellow owner out. But that's just me...............

[smdandb2]

Any smart business man is going to keep trade secrets to themselves. And tuning parameters would be considered a trade secret or IP... however you see it.

In reality though, what you are really looking for (in my eyes) seems to be the limits before the motor scatters. The truth in this matter is, no one knows. Well, some know but they spent the money testing this stuff so there is no reason to give this information out. Until someone changes settings and blows a 335 motor, you wont really know what the limits are. Even at that point, it's not set in stone what caused it to scatter.

Once you have a fundamental understanding of tuning, the rest falls in to place. You will be able to log what your car is doing, and it will make sense to you. If you grasp what the books tell you, you will know how to determine what the limits are before KABOOM!

Actually, scratch that. What you are looking for seems to be specific to the Procede. Well, at least the ignition correction and such. I'm sure there is some documentation on what those control exactly. Once you know what they control, then you need to understand the fundamentals of tuning before playing with them.

[cstmx_ryder]

By no means am I trying to steal Shiv's trade secrete or IP to CREATE my own tune. Trust me, I'm no brainiac, lol!

What I'm saying is, if there's a feature on the procede available to users, why not show us how to tweak/adjust them and what they mean? I'm not talking about the simpler stuff like UT value, upshift softening, etc. But rather the complex things like I've mentioned in my OP.

[GeorgeSmooth]

Originally Posted by smdandb2

Not even that tells you how to 'tune' the car and what is acceptable.

That book is just for the hardware and software of the DME.

It helps plenty to learn the relation between all the components and if you don't know that you are just looking at a screen with digits.

There are people that have the logging tools etc and sit wondering why there throttle keeps closing. Or why timing is being retarded. But reading that book is basically like reading any book in relation to forced induction tuning starting with Corky Bells book.

Ryder is asking a valid question but its not something you can read in a manual. Its both theoretical and practical experience that is needed. The danger with a piggy back system though is that to a certain extent you do not have the OEM management protecting you as its receiving false signals.

On the other hand with a market leading product like Procede I wouldn't think the tune can be improved because tuned is tuned.

[smdandb2]

Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth

It helps plenty to learn the relation between all the components and if you don't know that you are just looking at a screen with digits.

There are people that have the logging tools etc and sit wondering why there throttle keeps closing. Or why timing is being retarded. But reading that book is basically like reading any book in relation to forced induction tuning starting with Corky Bells book.

Ryder is asking a valid question but its not something you can read in a manual. Its both theoretical and practical experience that is needed. The danger with a piggy back system though is that to a certain extent you do not have the OEM management protecting you as its receiving false signals.

On the other hand with a market leading product like Procede I wouldn't think the tune can be improved because tuned is tuned.

We're both right on this one.

It may show you relations as to why things are happening the way they are, but you need to understand the fundamentals to understand why BMW programmed it that way.

If timing is being pulled because knock was detected, it needs to be known why knock was detected. That is where understanding tuning comes in.

But what I think the OP was really after was an explanation from Shiv on these extra features. In the grand scheme of things though, you probably don't want to play with any of them unless you know what you are doing and are on a dyno. Because nothing you really adjust in there will probably change the ass dyno much. I would have to assume Shiv has is to the point where it makes enough power to where he is comfortable selling it. If he felt it was safe and/or prudent to change those values, he would have them incorporated in his maps already.

[kptaylor]

Get a book like this one and read up on the basics. With our cars, the sophisticated DME and DI fueling add even more complicated things to the equation.

Maximum Boost by Corky Bell

[GeorgeSmooth]

Originally Posted by kptaylor

Get a book like this one and read up on the basics. With our cars, the sophisticated DME and DI fueling add even more complicated things to the equation.

Maximum Boost by Corky Bell

Thats the book I had in mind, I couldn't remember the title but a must read for any Forced induction enthusiast.

[neo_]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

But for those who want to extract the last few % of power safely or want to customize their tune for their particular needs, we provide the necessary interface. Simple as that. I'd say that well over 70% don't modify the default mapping at all.

Shiv

Shiv

So, you would let us actually modify our fuel/ignition/boost tables ourself?

If so, then expect an order from me.

[cstmx_ryder]

My questions is not about WHAT you can do with the PROcede, but rather HOW you can achieve what you want(tuning wise) with the newly added features like I've mentioned......

Thanks for the inputs and I'll probably pick up a copy of the book as well. But my OP was more concerned with knowing what to adjust if your engine knocks, or start to pull timing,etc......I've no idea as to what those two things means, but I thought that maybe Shiv or anyone with experience under their belts can do a basic 101 on how to squeeze more hp/tq out of our cars and push it very close to its limits without blowing anything up.

[smdandb2]

Ahh, so I was right.

Truth be told, no one really knows where the limit is.

If you want more power, buy a Corvette.

[smdandb2]

And I think Shiv is taking the smart road here by NOT saying a word. We know he has seen this thread.

Basically, if you don't already understand what is shown in the software don't mess with it. Shiv doesnt want you(people in general) crying foul when he tells you what those do and you blow your car up trying to get MO POWA.

[cstmx_ryder]

What are you right about??

There's also safety features integrated into the Procede to PREVENT us from blowing up our engines(not saying it's not gonna happen, but at least there's some safety features just in case)

I do want more power, but not willing to cross the safety threshold to obtain that. That's why I ask the question, so I CAN tune my own car without blowing s@#$ up.

Vettes won't work for me unless they come in a sedan........

With a comment like that(if you want more power, then get a corvette), you can always get a more powerful car, so why even bother to slap a tune on any N54s. We should just ALL get Corvettes, Porches, GTRs, Enzos, Bugattis, the list goes on and on........

Originally Posted by smdandb2

Ahh, so I was right.

Truth be told, no one really knows where the limit is.

If you want more power, buy a Corvette.

[rbaldwin28]

Pm me and I will try to explain these features to you. If I recall they are pretty safe with the procede because the factory DME can still step in and retard the timing if the knock sensor picks up detonation. You should probably not raise the UT any higher than recommended though because running that much boost can destroy a motor. The real tuning is in the Ignition correction and up-shift softening and 1st Gear UT and second gear UT. Throttle response can also make a big difference when your car has the power to through you off the gas peddle.