[dzenno]

Read up on methanol on wikipedia and it concerns me that it's corrosive to aluminum that our engines are made out of (aluminum-magnesium material)..

What effect do you guys think methanol has on the internals of our engines. I understand that it's great to clean valves but what about the materials corroding??

Here's a snippet of the article:

--------------

One of the drawbacks of methanol as a fuel is its corrosivity to some metals, including aluminium. Methanol, although a weak acid, attacks the oxide coating that normally protects the aluminium from corrosion:

6 CH3OH + Al2O3 → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2O
The resulting methoxide salts are soluble in methanol, resulting in clean aluminium surface, which is readily oxidized by some dissolved oxygen. Also the methanol can act as an oxidizer:

6 CH3OH + 2 Al → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2
This reciprocal process effectively fuels corrosion until either the metal is eaten away or the concentration of CH3OH is negligible. Concerns with methanol's corrosivity have been addressed by using methanol compatible materials, and fuel additives that serve as corrosion inhibitors.

------------------

source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metha...edirected=true

I know it needs mixing with water at 80/20 but that concentration still seems high..what do you think?

[BoostedCosta]

i thought it is only corrosive if it sits there for a while

[GreenPlease]

Change your oil frequently and run 50/50 water/meth and you should be fine. The meth vaporizes instantly so, chances are, it will never actually come in contact with the engine.

[dzenno]

Maybe using some corrosion inhibitors that they talk about would help, don't know...would be interesting to hear some comments from meth kit distributors as I regard them as experts but also from anyone who's maybe a major in chemistry..I don't have a problem with 5k oil changes if that's all but don't know...

If you look at Mr. 5's thread on blackstone labs oil testing before and after meth you'll notice the lab reported high lead levels...why that with meth vs. None without?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by GreenPlease

Change your oil frequently and run 50/50 water/meth and you should be fine. The meth vaporizes instantly so, chances are, it will never actually come in contact with the engine.

50/50 doesn't provide adequate gains as seen in some dyno graphs posted on this board in the past 24 hours

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by dzenno

50/50 doesn't provide adequate gains as seen in some dyno graphs posted on this board in the past 24 hours

Then look previous to the past 24 hours.

[alpinedevil335]

from coolingmist....

Originally Posted by coolingmist

In order for the methanol to damage the aluminum it has to be in contact for a period of time. In my opinion there is a near zero chance of having this issue. If so, every one that has torn apart an engine would have noted this and you would be hearing alot of people complaining about it. There is a reason you hear alot of people asking the question about meth being corrosive, yet not very many documented cases (I have yet to see any).

To be clear its 100% fact that meth is corrosive to viton, alumimum and most rubbers (EPDM and BUNA-N excepted), however it must be in constant contact. The flash vapor combined with the heat of the engine and air flow make this a non issue. There are more important things to worry about.

FYI, dont make a customer alumimum tank for your meth. If you plan to, make it out of plastic or stainless steel or it will pit and corrode the tank.

CM

discussed here
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...highlight=meth

[dzenno]

Didn't want to come off as a pain or against it as I like the benefits it provides.. just wanted to have an educated discussion...

Noone has looked inside or taken apart their n54 yet, older motors sure..when did BMW switch to an aluminum magnesium block?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Then look previous to the past 24 hours.

I did no offense, what thread talks about 50/50 providing significant gains? I can point you to at least one two where a lot of ppl are telling other members to run 80/20 to have good and noticeable gains..

[vasillalov]

Why do you guys fuck with perfectly good engines?... that beyond my understanding...

[alpinedevil335]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Why do you guys fuck with perfectly good engines?... that beyond my understanding...

Because we can

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Why do you guys fuck with perfectly good engines?... that beyond my understanding...

Perfectly good for one person doesn't necessarily mean it's perfectly good for everyone...

[cocoturkey]

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/part...hol_Fuel/15941


Redline Alcohol Fuel Lubricants
Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lubricant is a must if you're running Methanol Injection. Over time, gelling and corrosion can occur and cause a nightmare in trouble shooting issues that can arise from running Methanol. Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lube helps to prevent this gelling and corrosion, and in turn allows you to push your car to the limits with confidence.

To top off the benefits that this product already offers, Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lube also lubricates the upper cylinder and fuel system. This in turn increases power by allowing for a better ring seal.

Notes
•Use 1oz of Alcohol Fuel Lube per 5 gallons of fuel.
•Do not use on vehicles with catalytic converters.
•Use 2 teaspons for every 1.25 gallons (full HPF methanol tank)

[cocoturkey]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Why do you guys fuck with perfectly good engines?... that beyond my understanding...

because we don't think sparying meth in our engine would fuck our perfectly good engine.

[NiVeDh]

Originally Posted by cocoturkey

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/part...hol_Fuel/15941


Redline Alcohol Fuel Lubricants
Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lubricant is a must if you're running Methanol Injection. Over time, gelling and corrosion can occur and cause a nightmare in trouble shooting issues that can arise from running Methanol. Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lube helps to prevent this gelling and corrosion, and in turn allows you to push your car to the limits with confidence.

To top off the benefits that this product already offers, Red Line Alcohol Fuel Lube also lubricates the upper cylinder and fuel system. This in turn increases power by allowing for a better ring seal.

Notes
•Use 1oz of Alcohol Fuel Lube per 5 gallons of fuel.
•Do not use on vehicles with catalytic converters.
•Use 2 teaspons for every 1.25 gallons (full HPF methanol tank)

Sounds like this could cause more damage than just methanol.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

Sounds like this could cause more damage than just methanol.

Yep - I will skip it. This is why people run VP M1 and not M3 or M5. You do not want any lube/additives for meth injection. Now it your car runs on meth alone, then go for it.

[zhangzeyuandss]

methanol is highly corrosive, with a tendency to deteriorate non-synthetic and natural rubber fuel system parts. basically our fuel line is used of rubber. since we are not running direct from fuel system, the problem should not be that serious. but still need a flash once in a while

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by GreenPlease

Change your oil frequently and run 50/50 water/meth and you should be fine. The meth vaporizes instantly so, chances are, it will never actually come in contact with the engine.

There's an issue here though as meth isn't being sprayed directly into the engine, it goes through the intake manifold that is also aluminum and doesn't burn there, it collects on the sidewalls, so what happens with that over time? Can't change oil to clean it out, you have to take off the intake mani ..

Also, even inside the engine, what are meth's combustion byproducts and their deposits? Are there any?

I understand the performance benefits of using meth and dynos and track records prove it but Id like to know if we're going to spray this corrosive alcohol into our engines what/if we need to spray a corrosion inhibitor as well since changing oil doesn't do squat to maintaining a clean intake mani which isn't cheap to replace, not to mention internal engine components such as the headgasket..

Again, I want meth/ice benefits to my engine, question is how to ensure we're not corroding it away? Don't flame me with comments from meth kit vendors please just looking to have an educated discussion..

[Ilma]

Did you say......."headgasket"?

Ahhh, I digress.

But last time I looked, the intake manifold was made out of plastic - not aluminum.

Do you mean the cylinder head assembly? Because I think you have a point about the upper part of the engine being exposed to meth especially where the ports connect to the intake manifold. There would be a bit of a contact point there as well as the valves themselves.

[coolingmist]

methanol is corrosive to aluminum but it needs to be sitting methanol. So you cant us an aluminum tank for example. the methanol is atomized by the time it gets into your engine and it does not sit there, so you dont have any real chance of meth damage.

with the 1,000's of people that have alum engines that have tore it down after using meth you would have seen people with issues. think about all the people that have aluminum piping, thats the majority of cars , yet there is no damage.

It needs to be sitting on the alum to damage.

CM

[dzenno]

On the path from the nozzle to before the engine what's made of aluminum? If you spray meth through that piping you're saying insignificant to none will collect over a period of a 20min track session? If you take your nozzle and spray it through a pipe, don't worry about our intake charge pipe, just any pipe, I'd think that mist would eventually soak it...what happens if you overspray and don't know you are...I'm on the fence to buy it but want to be 100% sure about it and make an educated purchase..I don't think anyone has gone even close to taking apart n54s so in this case that only is a statement not fact..

Do we need any corrosive inhibitors in our meth mixture?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by dzenno

On the path from the nozzle to before the engine what's made of aluminum? If you spray meth through that piping you're saying insignificant to none will collect over a period of a 20min track session? If you take your nozzle and spray it through a pipe, don't worry about our intake charge pipe, just any pipe, I'd think that mist would eventually soak it...what happens if you overspray and don't know you are...I'm on the fence to buy it but want to be 100% sure about it and make an educated purchase..I don't think anyone has gone even close to taking apart n54s so in this case that only is a statement not fact..

Do we need any corrosive inhibitors in our meth mixture?

So are you going to take the plunge next week when we order our kits LOL Seems like your car has been taken care off now (thank god for you).

Mike