[BoostedCosta]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

I think BMW is still trying to figure out the root of the problem.

Either way, working the fuel pump harder will cause it to fail earlier.

I recall reading that the stock fuel system is good for around 500whp before running out of steam but that was with upgraded turbochargers.

i just think a company better come out with a HPFP soon they will make BANK!!
now are you saying after 500whp that ull need at least a intank fuel pump? or are you sayin that even after 500whp that even the HPFP will fail right away?

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

Inadequate fuel mods due to the fact that the N54 is direct injected is probably one of the reasons E85 isn't as popular.

If I recall E85 requires about 30% more fuel than 93 to produce the same amount of energy which would mean the in-tank pump as well as the HPFP and injectors would have to potentially be upgraded which isn't currently available. E85 also has availability issues which is a reason I couldn't ever switch to it being that there are only two or three stations local that have it available.

Yea, but that doesn't mean you need 30% more E85 to produce same power as 93 octane. With e85's effective octane rating, you can run significantly higher boost and advance ignition timing.

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

These pumps can't handle flowing stock levels of fuel for extended periods of time without failing. I can't imagine how much sooner they will fail if you make them work 30% harder.

I don't get this. Evo, supra guys are having a tremendous success with parallel connected double walbro in-tank fuel pumps. AKA "double pumper", this handles fuel demand upto 1000whp. Even a single walbro set up for e85 can support flow upto about 500whp before you have to upgrade.

[BoostedCosta]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

I don't get this. Evo, supra guys are having a tremendous success with parallel connected double walbro in-tank fuel pumps. AKA "double pumper", this handles fuel demand upto 1000whp. Even a single walbro set up for e85 can support flow upto about 500whp before you have to upgrade.

yea but thats a intank pump what about our HPFP
intanks are easy to upgrade our HPFP arent

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by 335i82108

yea but thats a intank pump what about our HPFP
intanks are easy to upgrade our HPFP arent

Why would you want to upgrade it now?
If the HPFP flows enough to support 500whp out of 93 octane, even if it requires 30% more flow, e85 will be MORE than enough to support the fuel demand out of tiny twin turbo's.
You will just be able to run higher boost and have some crazy timing.

[BoostedCosta]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

Why would you want to upgrade it now?
If the HPFP flows enough to support 500whp out of 93 octane, even if it requires 30% more flow, e85 will be MORE than enough to support the fuel demand out of tiny twin turbo's.
You will just be able to run higher boost and have some crazy timing.

ok so you beileve that you can just put e85 in the tank and be fine?
no upgraded pumps?

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by 335i82108

ok so you beileve that you can just put e85 in the tank and be fine?
no upgraded pumps?

Here's my take. I am not implying I am a professional by any means, but based on my experience with Evo platform and abundance of information on the evo forum, I believe current HPFP will be more than enough to support the fuel demand of stock twin turbos.

There's more than just dumping the e85 in the tank and tune for it in the conversion process, however. I would estimate that with an e85, you will easily produce 400+whp with supporting bolt ons that are available now.

Case scenario:

Evo9 with full bolt-ons tuned with 93 octane produces about 350-370whp/350wtq-370wtq at about 23psi give or take depending on the aggressiveness of the tune.
With NOTHING changed, dump e85 and you can tune it to 400-420whp/380-420wtq at around 27-28psi with even more timing.
That's how good it is.

[BoostedCosta]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

Here's my take. I am not implying I am a professional by any means, but based on my experience with Evo platform and abundance of information on the evo forum, I believe current HPFP will be more than enough to support the fuel demand of stock twin turbos.

There's more than just dumping the e85 in the tank and tune for it in the conversion process, however. I would estimate that with an e85, you will easily produce 400+whp with supporting bolt ons that are available now.

well obiov u would need it to be tuned with it.
do you have N54 engine? why dont you try this?
as much as i want to i dont want anything to fail

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by 335i82108

well obiov u would need it to be tuned with it.
do you have N54 engine? why dont you try this?
as much as i want to i dont want anything to fail

I sold my evo right before I was about to do a double-pumper/e85 set up with a 2.3L stroker, built head, and 61mm turbo. I was already making very close to 500whp with 93 octane.

Too bad I decided to go to med school, and will not be able to afford a new car for the next 5-6 years.

If I had an n54, I would've def. tried e85 with upgraded fuel lines, seals, etc.
Luckily, there are quite a few e85 stations where I live.

[Dr G13]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

To be safe, new fuel lines will be good to have.
In evos and supras (not exactly e85 compatible either), most don't even use upgraded lines, and they go for years without damage.

I ran my old evo a few times at the track with e85, with the help of members of evom.net I had a very good tune to run that stuff, worked great, didnt cause any probs but i'm sure to benefit properly i should have had twin fuel pump setup, i just had walbro pump on it so it was maxed out on e85 easily.

I would totally not even think about it on the 335i purely because i dont treat it like my evo

[marconi118]

The problem is not the flow of the HPFP that could hold 450HP on E85

The problem is that the HPFP is designed for gasoline that lubricates its internals
Already with 10% of Ethanol it dies

with an after market stronger HPFP (and maybe injectors?) we could do great power on E85 that is as race gas, no need of methanol injection

another idea to investigate: use E85 to inject instead of water/methanol injection

[BoostedCosta]

Originally Posted by marconi118

The problem is not the flow of the HPFP that could hold 450HP on E85

The problem is that the HPFP is designed for gasoline that lubricates its internals
Already with 10% of Ethanol it dies

with an after market stronger HPFP (and maybe injectors?) we could do great power on E85 that is as race gas, no need of methanol injection

[/another idea to investigate: use E85 to inject instead of water/methanol injection

what?!?! NEVER heard of this does e85 have any type of oils in it

[JoeyFiasco]

Originally Posted by marconi118

another idea to investigate: use E85 to inject instead of water/methanol injection

interesting. what adverse effects (if any) would methanol have on meth pump, lines, etc? it would increase the octane rating, but what about cooling?

[marconi118]

the BMW HPFP dies with ethanol even with E85, because the ethanol "washes" the small oil ammount in the fuel. there is no more lubrication ant the internal HPFP seals break.


My idea would be to use the E85 pure in a coolingmist or other water/methanol injection system

Gain in octane and cooling, without damaging the HPFP

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by marconi118

the BMW HPFP dies with ethanol even with E85, because the ethanol "washes" the small oil ammount in the fuel. there is no more lubrication ant the internal HPFP seals break.


My idea would be to use the E85 pure in a coolingmist or other water/methanol injection system

Gain in octane and cooling, without damaging the HPFP

Already being done with 100% denatured alcohol, not as toxic as meth, but still makes good power.

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco

interesting. what adverse effects (if any) would methanol have on meth pump, lines, etc? it would increase the octane rating, but what about cooling?

People are interchanging meth/denatured alcohol already. It increases the EFFECTIVE octane rating of the fuel BY cooling it.

[bdkevoIX]

So I guess it comes down to HPFP lubrication requirement that can only be supplied by the gasoline at this point. What a double-edged sword it is.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

Already being done with 100% denatured alcohol, not as toxic as meth, but still makes good power.

Yes denatured alcohol is ethanol + a small amount of methanol to desaturate it. remember 100% ethanol is drinking alcohol.

My concern is the 15% of gasoline in E85, will it alter the meth injection system?
can E85 be mixed 80/20 with water to be used in the injection?

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

So I guess it comes down to HPFP lubrication requirement that can only be supplied by the gasoline at this point. What a double-edged sword it is.

Yes HPFP and maybe injectors(not yet sure), ethanol is poison for them

but with new HPFP the N54 @ E85 could give great power

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by marconi118

Yes denatured alcohol is ethanol + a small amount of methanol to desaturate it. remember 100% ethanol is drinking alcohol.

My concern is the 15% of gasoline in E85, will it alter the meth injection system?
can E85 be mixed 80/20 with water to be used in the injection?

I don't see why it would be problem. If you replace e85 with meth, you're essentially spraying ethanol+small amount of gasoline in your intake tract.
You can also add water because ethanol is hydrophilic, but not sure what happens to its efficacy?

Conventional injection essentially sprays fuel in the intake tract just as meth injection system would do. So in a sense, you'll have direction injection + conventional injection.

Not sure I'll do that though