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      05-13-2010, 02:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post
This is not about who is faster or not its about what the car offers its either a a daily/road oriented supercar or a track focused supercar. After that we can compare the road oriented cars and the track oriented cars.

MP4-12c - Road
Italia - Road
SLS -Road


LP570-SV- Track
SL Black -Track
GT2 RS- Track
Scuderia -Track
R8 GT - Track


GT3 RS and M3 GTS are on a B list of track cars

Im not saying this is written in stone but makes more sense IMHO.
I can't a get it how 911 GT3 RS, which is a real track car (911 GT3 RS-R), which is faster around the Ring than the Scuderia, Superleggera, Black Series and R8 GT, which is cheaper (145.000 €) does not get in to that list.
What is the createria? Track or road and then? Power? Price? Performance?
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      05-13-2010, 03:43 PM   #24
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It weighs 200lbs less than my 135i with over twice the horsepower. Does. Not. Compute!

I want!

Picking between a GT2 RS or GT3 RS would be such a difficult choice. A choice I wouldn't mind making, however
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      05-13-2010, 03:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post

GT3 RS
and M3 GTS are on a B list of track cars

Im not saying this is written in stone but makes more sense IMHO.
What? How does that make more sense? The GT3 RS is half a step away from a FIA GT Porsche Cup Car.

The LP570-SV, SL Black, GT2 RS have never been raced in the FIA GT class.
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      05-13-2010, 04:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post
This is not about who is faster or not its about what the car offers its either a a daily/road oriented supercar or a track focused supercar. After that we can compare the road oriented cars and the track oriented cars.

MP4-12c - Road
Italia - Road
SLS -Road


LP570-SV- Track
SL Black -Track
GT2 RS- Track
Scuderia -Track
R8 GT - Track


GT3 RS and M3 GTS are on a B list of track cars

Im not saying this is written in stone but makes more sense IMHO.
Come on, most buyer of these cars will drive them on weekend on road.
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      05-13-2010, 04:19 PM   #27
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It may or may not be. The GT2 hasn't been raced in an actual GT event since the late 90s. I'm sure it will be a fine road car for those looking for thrills.

However I don't understand how you can say the GT3-RS, a proven race car, is "b-list" despite multiple ALMS and FIA GT victories.

http://www.oneighturbo.com/fia-gt/fi...e-911-gt3-rsr/
http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option...ans&Itemid=249

The GT3-RS has a very respected motorsport history.
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      05-13-2010, 04:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
It may or may not be. The GT2 hasn't been raced in an actual GT event since the late 90s. I'm sure it will be a fine road car for those looking for thrills.

However I don't understand how you can say the GT3-RS, a proven race car, is "b-list" despite multiple ALMS and FIA GT victories.
The others are upwards of 200k and the GT3 RS at 136,000 is not in the same price range.

Last edited by ARMAN; 05-13-2010 at 04:38 PM.
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      05-13-2010, 04:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post
Price wise son price wise!!!

The others are upwards of 200k and the GT3 RS at 136,000 is not in the same price range.
You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARMAN
This is not about who is faster or not its about what the car offers its either a a daily/road oriented supercar or a track focused supercar. After that we can compare the road oriented cars and the track oriented cars.

MP4-12c - Road
Italia - Road
SLS -Road


LP570-SV- Track
SL Black -Track
GT2 RS- Track
Scuderia -Track
R8 GT - Track


GT3 RS and M3 GTS are on a B list of track cars
I don't see any mention of price in that statement. It sounded like you were comparing road cars, and track cars by your perceptions of their capability.
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      05-13-2010, 04:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
What? How does that make more sense? The GT3 RS is half a step away from a FIA GT Porsche Cup Car.

The LP570-SV, SL Black, GT2 RS have never been raced in the FIA GT class.

Just quit. This guy is a piece of work.

Price son price...
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      05-13-2010, 04:44 PM   #31
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Just quit. This guy is a piece of work.

Price son price...

"The Bentley Continental Supersport is the best track car evar! Price son price!"
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      05-13-2010, 04:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post

"The Bentley Continental Supersport is the best track car evar! Price son price!"
Are you insane. I would say the best track car for the money has to be the Gumpert Apollo

Last edited by ARMAN; 05-13-2010 at 04:54 PM.
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      05-13-2010, 04:53 PM   #33
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Ring times for comparison


Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Radical SR8LM 6:48 182 ´ 455 / 650 Michael Vergers
2. Radical SR8 6:55 179 ´05 363 / 650 Michael Vergers
3. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 172 ´09 700 / 1200 Florian Gruber
4. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 (IFC) 171 ´05 350 / 600 Michael Duechting
5. Porsche GT2 RS 7:18 169 ´10 620 / 1370 Porsche
6. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19 (IFC) 169 ´03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
7. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:22.1 (FC) 168 ´08 600 / 1536 Motor Trend
8. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24 (IT) 167 ´07 700 / 1200 sportauto
9. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 (IT) 167 ´04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
10. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 (IT) 167 ´05 650 / 1230 Marc Basseng
11. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 (IT) 167 ´02 660 / 1365 Marc Basseng
12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:26.4 (FC) 166 ´08 647 / 1530 Jim Mero
13. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 (FC) 166 ´08 479 / 1740 Toshio Suzuki
14. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 (IT) 165 ´03 612 / 1380 Walther Röhrl
15. Porsche 997 GT2 7:31 (FC) 164 ´07 530 / 1440 Walter Röhrl
16. Pagani Zonda F 7:33 164 ´05 602 / 1371 Sport Auto
17. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 164 ´06 806 / 1456 Marc Basseng
18. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34 163 ´04 806 / 1418 Sport Auto
19. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 163 ´09 492 / 1680 Best Motoring
20. RUF RT12 7:35 163 ´05 650 / 1573 Sport Auto
21. Porsche 997 Turbo 7:38 162 ´06 480 / 1585 Porsche
22. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 7:39 162 ´07 510 / 1402 sportauto
23. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40 161 ´06 640 / 1805 AutoBild sportscars
24. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40 161 ´03 626 / 1768 Klaus Ludwig
25. Porsche 997 GT3 (facelift) 7:40 161 ´09 435 / 1376 Walter Rhorl
26. Mercedes SLS AMG 7:40 161 ´10 571 / 1620 Christoph
27. Porsche 997 GT3 7:42 161 ´06 415 / 1395 Walter Rƶhrl
28. Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42 161 ´09 670 / 1764 Horst von Saurma
29. Radical SR3 7:42.00 161 ´02 205 / 495
30. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.9 160 ´05 513 / 1437.3 Jan Magnussen
31. Porsche 996 GT3 RS 7:43 160 ´03 381 / 1360 "Motor" magazine
32. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44 160 ´02 555 / 1250 Sport Auto
33. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.0 160 ´09 525 / 1620 sportauto
34. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45 159 ´07 507 / 1745 berndt schneider
35. Porsche 996 GT2 7:46 159 ´00 460 / 1430 Sport Auto
36. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46 159 ´07 530 / 1520 Auto (Italy)
37. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 ´92 549 / 1555 John Nielsen
38. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47 159 ´06 620 / 1748 Sport Auto
39. Porsche 997 GT3 RS 7:48 158 ´06 415 / 1375 Sport Auto
40. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50 158 ´02 580 / 1800 Sport Auto
41. BMW M3 CSL (E46) 7:50 158 ´03 360 / 1385 Sport Auto
42. Porsche 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) 7:50 158 ´08 385 / 1425
43. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51 157 ´09 670 / 1870 Sport Auto 05/2009
44. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52 157 ´03 500 / 1613 Sport Auto
45. Ford GT 7:52 157 ´04 550 / 1538 Sport Auto
46. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52 157 ´08 560 / 1530 sportauto
47. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54 156 ´04 582 / 1678 Sport Auto
48. Porsche 996 GT3 late 7:54 156 ´03 380 / 1380 Sport Auto
49. Ferrari F430 7:55 156 ´05 489 / 1450 Sport Auto
50. Porsche 996 Turbo 7:56 156 ´00 420 / 1540 Sport Auto
51. Ferrari 360 CS 7:56 156 ´03 425 / 1280 sport auto 02/2004
52. Chevrolet Corvette C5Z06 '02-'04 7:56 156 ´01 411 / 1414 Dave Hill
53. Porsche Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo 7:56 156 ´09 500 / 1974 Walter Roehrl (AutoB
54. Porsche Panamera Turbo 7:56.0 156 ´09 500 / 1870 Walter Röhrl
55. Porsche 996 GT3 early 7:56.33 156 ´99 360 / 1350 Walter Rohl
56. Honda NSX-R 7:56.733 156 ´02 280 / 1270 Gan San
57. Audi RS4 (B7) 7:58 155 ´05 420 / 1720 Frank Stippler
58. Chevrolet Corvette C6 7:59 155 ´04 400 / 1470 Motortrend
59. Cadillac CTS-V 7:59.32 (Pre product 155 ´09 564 / 1955 john heinricy
60. Porsche 997 Carrera S 7:59:00 155 ´04 355 / 1420 Walter Roehrl, WHEEL
61. Bugatti EB 110 SS (US market version) 8:01 154 ´92 600 / 1735
62. Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 8:01.84 154 ´06 520 / 1748 Wolfgang Kaufmann
63. Audi R8 8:01.90 (FL) 154 ´06 420 / 1560 Sportscars
64. Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R 8:01:72 154 ´95 280 / 1601 Gansan (V-Spec model
65. Aston Martin DBS 8:02 154 ´07 517 / 1695 Sport Auto
66. Aston Martin V8 Vantage (380bhp) 8:03 154 ´05 385 / 1636 Sport Auto
67. Honda NSX-R (3.0) 8:03.86 153 ´ 274 / 1281 Motoharu Kurosawa
68. Lamborghini Diablo GT 8:04 153 ´99 570 / 1520 Sport Auto
69. Porsche 997 Carrera 4S (facelift) 8:04.52 (full lap wi 153 ´08 385 / 1425 sportscars
70. RUF CTR Yellow Bird 8:05 153 ´87 469 / 1150
71. Ferrari 575 Maranello 8:05 153 ´02 515 / 1760 Sport Auto
72. BMW M3 (E92) 8:05 153 ´07 420 / 1619 Sport Auto
73. Porsche Cayman S(facelift) PDK 8:06 153 ´08 320 / 1375 Porsche ?
74. Mercedes SL 55 AMG 8:06.0 153 ´06 517 / 1960 sport Auto Mag
75. Caterham Superlight R 8:06.20 153 ´97 193 / 525 Autocar
76. Ferrari 550 Maranello 8:07 152 ´96 486 / 1690 Sport Auto
77. BMW M6 8:07.76 152 ´05 507 / 1710 Sportauto
78. Porsche 964 Turbo 3.3 (320hp) 8:08.71 ** 152 ´91 320 / 1470 best motoring
79. Ferrari 360 Modena 8:09 152 ´99 400 / 1390 Sport Auto
80. Lamborghini Diablo SV 8:09 152 ´97 519 / 1590 sportauto
81. Audi RS6 Avant (C6) 8:09 152 ´08 579 / 2025 Audi claim
82. Audi TT-RS Coupe 8:09 152 ´09 340 / 1450 SportAuto
83. Porsche 993 GT2 8:09.3 152 ´95 430 / 1290 Sportauto
84. Donkervoort D8 180R 8:10 151 ´01 240 / 675 Sport Auto
85. Dodge Viper GTS 8:10 151 ´97 457 / 1580 Sport Auto
86. Alpina B6 S 8:10 151 ´08 530 / 1815 sportauto
87. KTM X-Bow 8:10 151 ´08 241 / 871 sportauto
88. Mercedes E63 AMG 8:10.0 151 ´09 525 / 1765 sportauto
89. Porsche Cayman S 8:11 151 ´05 295 / 1406 Walter Roehrl (*mfr.
90. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 8:11 151 ´05 290 / 1482 Best Motoring
91. Porsche 993 Turbo 3.6 factory kit 8:12 151 ´97 430 / 1506 sportauto
92. Mercedes SL 55 AMG 8:12 151 ´02 476 / 1855 Sport Auto
93. Lotus Esprit Sport 350 8:13 150 ´99 354 / 1324 Sport Auto
94. Dodge Viper SRT-10 8:13 150 ´05 506 / 1600 Sport Auto
95. BMW M5 (E60) 8:13 150 ´05 507 / 1848 Sport Auto
96. Ferrari F355 8:13 150 ´95 380 / 1350
97. Mercedes C 63 AMG 8:13 150 ´07 457 / 1772 sport auto
98. Mercedes SL65 AMG 8:14 150 ´04 612 / 2049 Sport Auto
99. Mercedes SLK 55 AMG Black Series 8:14 150 ´06 400 / 1506 Sport Auto
100. Alpina B3 Biturbo 8:14 150 ´07 360 / 1626 sportauto
101. Porsche 997 Carrera 8:15 150 ´04 325 / 1395 Walter Rƶhrl
102. RUF BR2 EKS 8:15 150 ´92 360 / 1355 sportauto
103. Alpina Z4 Roadster S 8:15 150 ´03 300 / 1416 sportauto
104. RUF CTR2 8:15 150 ´97 520 / 1422 AutoCar
105. Aston Martin DB9 8:16 150 ´04 450 / 1710 Sport Auto
106. BMW M6 Cabrio 8:16,52 150 ´07 507 / 1930 Wolfgang Kaufmann
107. Honda NSX 3.0 (1991) 8:16.15 149 ´91 274 / 1362 Motoharu Kurosawa (b
108. Renault Megane R26.R 8:16.90 149 ´08 230 / 1252 Vincent Bayle
109. Porsche 996 Carrera 8:17 149 ´97 300 / 1320 Sport Auto
110. Porsche 996 Carrera 320hp 8:17 149 ´01 320 / 1345 Sport Auto
111. Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 8:17 149 ´01 460 / 1882 Sport Auto
112. BMW Z8 8:18 149 ´00 400 / 1585 "Sport Auto"
113. Chevrolet Corvette C5 Comm. Edition Targa 8:18 149 ´04 344 / 1452 Sportauto
114. Maserati Coupe GranSport 8:18 149 ´04 400 / 1680 Sport Auto
115. Lexus IS F 8:18 149 ´07 423 / 1732 Sport Auto
116. Porsche Boxster S (facelift) 8:18 149 ´09 310 / 1380 sportauto
117. Porsche 987 Boxster S (276bhp) 8:18.00 149 ´05 280 / 1345 Walter Rohl
118. Audi RS6 (C5) 8:20 148 ´02 450 / 1840
119. Chevrolet Camaro SS 2010 8:20 148 ´10 432 / 1750 Chevrolet test team
120. BMW M3 (E46) 8:22 148 ´00 343 / 1565 "Sport Auto"
121. Mercedes C 55 AMG 8:22 148 ´04 367 / 1680 Sport Auto
122. BMW Z3 M Coupe 8:22.0 148 ´99 315 / 1465 sportauto
123. Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R 8:22.38 148 ´89 280 / 1430 Motoharu Kurosawa (b
124. Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 8:22.85 147 ´08 260 / 1352
125. Porsche 986 Boxster S (262bhp) 8:23 147 ´04 266 / 1320 Sport Auto
126. Aston Martin DB7 GT 8:23 147 ´03 435 / 1780 Sport Auto
127. Mercedes SLK 55 AMG 8:24 147 ´06 360 / 1495 Sport Auto
128. Subaru Impreza WRX STi 8:24 147 ´05 280 / 1500 Sport Auto
129. BMW X6 M 8:24 (IT) 147 ´09 555 / 2343 sportauto
130. Mitsubishi Evo VII 8:25 147 ´02 280 / 1454 Sportauto
131. Audi RS4 Avant (B5) 8:25 147 ´00 380 / 1675 Sportauto
132. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI 8:25 147 ´99 280 / 1384 Sportauto
133. Callaway C12 8:25 147 ´99 400 / 1565 Sport Auto
134. Jaguar XKR 8:25 147 ´06 420 / 1776 Sport Auto
135. Lotus Exige S Performance-Pack 8:25 147 ´06 243 / 940 Sport Auto
136. Mercedes SLK 32 AMG 8:26 147 ´01 354 / 1395 Sport Auto
137. Nissan 350Z (283bhp) 8:26 147 ´02 287 / 1532 Sport Auto
138. BMW 335i Coupe 8:26 147 ´06 306 / 1610 Sport Auto
139. Audi S5 8:26 147 ´07 354 / 1630 Sport Auto
140. Ford Focus RS Mk. II 8:26 147 ´09 305 / 1467 Sport Auto
141. BMW M5 (E39) 8:28 146 ´98 400 / 1795 Sport Auto
142. Porsche 993 Carrera 8:28 146 ´93 272 / 1350 Sport Auto
143. Porsche 993 Carrera Cabrio 8:28 146 ´95 286 / 1370 Sport Auto
144. Porsche 964 Carrera RS 8:28 146 ´91 260 / 1220 sportauto
145. Porsche 993 Carrera 2 (285 PS) 8:28.0 146 ´95 285 / 1398 Sport Auto
146. Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 V-Spec II 8:28.1 146 ´98 305 / 1532 Steve Sutcliffe
147. Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 8:28.10 146 ´98 280 / 1666 Autocar
148. Mercedes CLK 55 AMG 8:29 146 ´99 347 / 1520 Sport Auto
149. Audi S4 (B6) Avant 8:29 146 ´03 344 / 1720 sportauto
150. Audi TT-S Coupe 8:29 146 ´08 272 / 1395 Sport Auto
151. Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa 8:30 145 ´02 390 / 1580 Sport Auto
152. Pontiac G8 GXP 8:30:0 (FC) 145 ´08 420 / 1828 Non-Professional Guy
153. Cadillac STS-V 8:31 145 ´06 476 / 1948 AutoWeek
154. BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe 8:32 145 ´06 265 / 1408 Sportauto
155. BMW Z3 M Roadster 8:32 145 ´97 321 / 1350 Sport Auto
156. Lotus Exige 8:32 145 ´04 192 / 907 Sport Auto
157. Porsche 986 Boxster S (248bhp) 8:32 145 ´99 252 / 1295 Sport Auto
158. BMW Z4 3.0i 8:32.0 145 ´03 231 / 1384 Sportauto
159. Porsche Cayenne Turbo (Mk II) 8:33.99 144 ´08 500 / 2355 Patrick Simon
160. Vauxhall VX220 Turbo 8:34 144 ´03 200 / 930 "Sport Auto"
161. Opel Speedster Turbo 8:34 144 ´ 200 / 928 Sportauto
162. BMW Z3 3.0i 8:34 144 ´00 231 / 1330 Sport Auto
163. BMW M3 (E36) 8:35 144 ´96 321 / 1474 Sport Auto
164. Mini John Cooper Works 8:35 144 ´08 211 / 1130 Sport Auto
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      05-13-2010, 06:01 PM   #34
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This is the right list:

Audi R8 V10 vs. Porsche 911 Trubo vs. Lamborghini Gallardo vs. Ferrari F430 vs. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (Not Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren MP4-12C, Mercedes SLS AMG nor Lexus LF-A as they are of the next generation. Nissan GT-R could get into this category due to performance but I decide to exclude it because it has four seats.)

M3 vs. Mercedes C 63 AMG vs. Audi RS4/RS5 vs. Lexus IS-F (Nothing else at the moment, for example there is no Alfa Romeo 159 GTA yet.)

Ferrari 599 GTB/(GTO) vs. Lamborghini Murcielago (SV) (The only true V12 sport cars in the world. The Aston Martin DBS is "underpowered" and the Aston Martin One-77 is a hypercar. The new Lamborghini Jota is on its way, and will be the rival of the next Ferrari 599 GTB, I do not know haow they will call it.)

Audi R8 GT vs. Porsche 911 GT3 RS vs. Lamborghini Superleggera vs. Ferrari 430 Scuderia vs. BMW M3 GTS (Not Ferrari 458 Italia as it is not radical, the 458 Scuderia would be of next generation. The BMW M3 GTS gets into this category as it competes against these cars in GT. All these cars make the N-Ring in around between 7:40-7:30 min. The M3 was and is often compared to the 911 Carrera.)

Ferrari 458 Italia vs. McLaren MP4-12C vs. Mercedes SLS AMG vs. Lexus LF-A (These are the cars of the newest generation. The Lexus is much more expensive not because it is better but because it was very expensive for Toyota to build it. The project started from Zero.)

Porsche 911 GT2 RS vs. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (Both over 600 HP.)

Mercedes SLR McLaren vs. Porsche Carrera GT vs. Ferrari Enzo vs. Maserati MC12 (The most exclusive cars of "big" brands that came out all most at the same time.)

Bugatti EB16.4 Veyron (A hypercar without any real rival till today.)

Pagani vs. Koenigsegg (Very exotic and expensive race inspired sport cars.)

All the others (Apollo, Lotus,...) are without any precise category.

Last edited by Levi; 05-14-2010 at 05:19 AM. Reason: I added the Lexus LF-A.
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      05-13-2010, 08:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
This is the right list:

Audi R8 V10 vs. Porsche 911 Trubo vs. Lamborghini Gallardo vs. Ferrari F430 vs. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (Not Ferrari 458 Italia, McLaren MP4-12C, Mercedes SLS AMG nor Lexus LF-A as they are of the next generation. Nissan GT-R could get into this category due to performance but I decide to exclude it because it has four seats.)

M3 vs. Mercedes C 63 AMG vs. Audi RS4/RS5 vs. Lexus IS-F (Nothing else at the moment, for example there is no Alfa Romeo 159 GTA yet.)

Ferrari 599 GTB/(GTO) vs. Lamborghini Murcielago (SV) (The only true V12 sport cars in the world. The Aston Martin DBS is "underpowered" and the Aston Martin One-77 is a hypercar. The new Lamborghini Jota is on its way, and will be the rival of the next Ferrari 599 GTB, I do not know haow they will call it.)

Audi R8 GT vs. Porsche 911 GT3 RS vs. Lamborghini Superleggera vs. Ferrari 430 Scuderia vs. BMW M3 GTS (Not Ferrari 458 Italia as it is not radical, the 458 Scuderia would be of next generation. The BMW M3 GTS gets into this category as it competes against these cars in GT. All these cars make the N-Ring in around between 7:40-7:30 min. The M3 was and is often compared to the 911 Carrera.)

Ferrari 458 Italia vs. McLaren MP4-12C vs. Mercedes SLS AMG (These are the cars of the newest generation.)

Porsche 911 GT2 RS vs. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (Both over 600 HP.)

Mercedes SLR McLaren vs. Porsche Carrera GT vs. Ferrari Enzo vs. Maserati MC12 (The most exclusive cars of "big" brands that came out all most at the same time.)

Bugatti EB16.4 Veyron (A hypercar without any real rival till today.)

Pagani vs. Koenigsegg (Very exotic and expensive race inspired sport cars.)

All the others (Apollo, Lotus,...) are without any precise category.
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      05-13-2010, 10:53 PM   #36
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anyone need a kidney? cuz im selling one to get this car!!!!
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      05-13-2010, 11:49 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post
Ring times for comparison


Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Radical SR8LM 6:48 182 ´ 455 / 650 Michael Vergers
2. Radical SR8 6:55 179 ´05 363 / 650 Michael Vergers
3. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 172 ´09 700 / 1200 Florian Gruber
4. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 (IFC) 171 ´05 350 / 600 Michael Duechting
5. Porsche GT2 RS 7:18 169 ´10 620 / 1370 Porsche
6. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19 (IFC) 169 ´03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
7. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:22.1 (FC) 168 ´08 600 / 1536 Motor Trend
8. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24 (IT) 167 ´07 700 / 1200 sportauto
9. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 (IT) 167 ´04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
10. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 (IT) 167 ´05 650 / 1230 Marc Basseng
11. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 (IT) 167 ´02 660 / 1365 Marc Basseng
12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:26.4 (FC) 166 ´08 647 / 1530 Jim Mero
13. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 (FC) 166 ´08 479 / 1740 Toshio Suzuki
14. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 (IT) 165 ´03 612 / 1380 Walther Röhrl
15. Porsche 997 GT2 7:31 (FC) 164 ´07 530 / 1440 Walter Röhrl
16. Pagani Zonda F 7:33 164 ´05 602 / 1371 Sport Auto
17. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 164 ´06 806 / 1456 Marc Basseng
18. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34 163 ´04 806 / 1418 Sport Auto
19. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 163 ´09 492 / 1680 Best Motoring
20. RUF RT12 7:35 163 ´05 650 / 1573 Sport Auto
21. Porsche 997 Turbo 7:38 162 ´06 480 / 1585 Porsche
22. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 7:39 162 ´07 510 / 1402 sportauto
23. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40 161 ´06 640 / 1805 AutoBild sportscars
24. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40 161 ´03 626 / 1768 Klaus Ludwig
25. Porsche 997 GT3 (facelift) 7:40 161 ´09 435 / 1376 Walter Rhorl
26. Mercedes SLS AMG 7:40 161 ´10 571 / 1620 Christoph
27. Porsche 997 GT3 7:42 161 ´06 415 / 1395 Walter Rƶhrl
28. Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42 161 ´09 670 / 1764 Horst von Saurma
29. Radical SR3 7:42.00 161 ´02 205 / 495
30. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.9 160 ´05 513 / 1437.3 Jan Magnussen
31. Porsche 996 GT3 RS 7:43 160 ´03 381 / 1360 "Motor" magazine
32. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44 160 ´02 555 / 1250 Sport Auto
33. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.0 160 ´09 525 / 1620 sportauto
34. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45 159 ´07 507 / 1745 berndt schneider
35. Porsche 996 GT2 7:46 159 ´00 460 / 1430 Sport Auto
36. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46 159 ´07 530 / 1520 Auto (Italy)
37. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 ´92 549 / 1555 John Nielsen
38. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47 159 ´06 620 / 1748 Sport Auto
39. Porsche 997 GT3 RS 7:48 158 ´06 415 / 1375 Sport Auto
40. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50 158 ´02 580 / 1800 Sport Auto
41. BMW M3 CSL (E46) 7:50 158 ´03 360 / 1385 Sport Auto
42. Porsche 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) 7:50 158 ´08 385 / 1425
43. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51 157 ´09 670 / 1870 Sport Auto 05/2009
44. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52 157 ´03 500 / 1613 Sport Auto
45. Ford GT 7:52 157 ´04 550 / 1538 Sport Auto
46. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52 157 ´08 560 / 1530 sportauto
47. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54 156 ´04 582 / 1678 Sport Auto
48. Porsche 996 GT3 late 7:54 156 ´03 380 / 1380 Sport Auto
49. Ferrari F430 7:55 156 ´05 489 / 1450 Sport Auto
50. Porsche 996 Turbo 7:56 156 ´00 420 / 1540 Sport Auto
51. Ferrari 360 CS 7:56 156 ´03 425 / 1280 sport auto 02/2004
52. Chevrolet Corvette C5Z06 '02-'04 7:56 156 ´01 411 / 1414 Dave Hill
53. Porsche Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo 7:56 156 ´09 500 / 1974 Walter Roehrl (AutoB
54. Porsche Panamera Turbo 7:56.0 156 ´09 500 / 1870 Walter Röhrl
55. Porsche 996 GT3 early 7:56.33 156 ´99 360 / 1350 Walter Rohl
56. Honda NSX-R 7:56.733 156 ´02 280 / 1270 Gan San
57. Audi RS4 (B7) 7:58 155 ´05 420 / 1720 Frank Stippler
58. Chevrolet Corvette C6 7:59 155 ´04 400 / 1470 Motortrend
59. Cadillac CTS-V 7:59.32 (Pre product 155 ´09 564 / 1955 john heinricy
60. Porsche 997 Carrera S 7:59:00 155 ´04 355 / 1420 Walter Roehrl, WHEEL
61. Bugatti EB 110 SS (US market version) 8:01 154 ´92 600 / 1735
62. Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 8:01.84 154 ´06 520 / 1748 Wolfgang Kaufmann
63. Audi R8 8:01.90 (FL) 154 ´06 420 / 1560 Sportscars
64. Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R 8:01:72 154 ´95 280 / 1601 Gansan (V-Spec model
65. Aston Martin DBS 8:02 154 ´07 517 / 1695 Sport Auto
66. Aston Martin V8 Vantage (380bhp) 8:03 154 ´05 385 / 1636 Sport Auto
67. Honda NSX-R (3.0) 8:03.86 153 ´ 274 / 1281 Motoharu Kurosawa
68. Lamborghini Diablo GT 8:04 153 ´99 570 / 1520 Sport Auto
69. Porsche 997 Carrera 4S (facelift) 8:04.52 (full lap wi 153 ´08 385 / 1425 sportscars
70. RUF CTR Yellow Bird 8:05 153 ´87 469 / 1150
71. Ferrari 575 Maranello 8:05 153 ´02 515 / 1760 Sport Auto
72. BMW M3 (E92) 8:05 153 ´07 420 / 1619 Sport Auto
73. Porsche Cayman S(facelift) PDK 8:06 153 ´08 320 / 1375 Porsche ?
74. Mercedes SL 55 AMG 8:06.0 153 ´06 517 / 1960 sport Auto Mag
75. Caterham Superlight R 8:06.20 153 ´97 193 / 525 Autocar
76. Ferrari 550 Maranello 8:07 152 ´96 486 / 1690 Sport Auto
77. BMW M6 8:07.76 152 ´05 507 / 1710 Sportauto
78. Porsche 964 Turbo 3.3 (320hp) 8:08.71 ** 152 ´91 320 / 1470 best motoring
79. Ferrari 360 Modena 8:09 152 ´99 400 / 1390 Sport Auto
80. Lamborghini Diablo SV 8:09 152 ´97 519 / 1590 sportauto
81. Audi RS6 Avant (C6) 8:09 152 ´08 579 / 2025 Audi claim
82. Audi TT-RS Coupe 8:09 152 ´09 340 / 1450 SportAuto
83. Porsche 993 GT2 8:09.3 152 ´95 430 / 1290 Sportauto
84. Donkervoort D8 180R 8:10 151 ´01 240 / 675 Sport Auto
85. Dodge Viper GTS 8:10 151 ´97 457 / 1580 Sport Auto
86. Alpina B6 S 8:10 151 ´08 530 / 1815 sportauto
87. KTM X-Bow 8:10 151 ´08 241 / 871 sportauto
88. Mercedes E63 AMG 8:10.0 151 ´09 525 / 1765 sportauto
89. Porsche Cayman S 8:11 151 ´05 295 / 1406 Walter Roehrl (*mfr.
90. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 8:11 151 ´05 290 / 1482 Best Motoring
91. Porsche 993 Turbo 3.6 factory kit 8:12 151 ´97 430 / 1506 sportauto
92. Mercedes SL 55 AMG 8:12 151 ´02 476 / 1855 Sport Auto
93. Lotus Esprit Sport 350 8:13 150 ´99 354 / 1324 Sport Auto
94. Dodge Viper SRT-10 8:13 150 ´05 506 / 1600 Sport Auto
95. BMW M5 (E60) 8:13 150 ´05 507 / 1848 Sport Auto
96. Ferrari F355 8:13 150 ´95 380 / 1350
97. Mercedes C 63 AMG 8:13 150 ´07 457 / 1772 sport auto
98. Mercedes SL65 AMG 8:14 150 ´04 612 / 2049 Sport Auto
99. Mercedes SLK 55 AMG Black Series 8:14 150 ´06 400 / 1506 Sport Auto
100. Alpina B3 Biturbo 8:14 150 ´07 360 / 1626 sportauto
101. Porsche 997 Carrera 8:15 150 ´04 325 / 1395 Walter Rƶhrl
102. RUF BR2 EKS 8:15 150 ´92 360 / 1355 sportauto
103. Alpina Z4 Roadster S 8:15 150 ´03 300 / 1416 sportauto
104. RUF CTR2 8:15 150 ´97 520 / 1422 AutoCar
105. Aston Martin DB9 8:16 150 ´04 450 / 1710 Sport Auto
106. BMW M6 Cabrio 8:16,52 150 ´07 507 / 1930 Wolfgang Kaufmann
107. Honda NSX 3.0 (1991) 8:16.15 149 ´91 274 / 1362 Motoharu Kurosawa (b
108. Renault Megane R26.R 8:16.90 149 ´08 230 / 1252 Vincent Bayle
109. Porsche 996 Carrera 8:17 149 ´97 300 / 1320 Sport Auto
110. Porsche 996 Carrera 320hp 8:17 149 ´01 320 / 1345 Sport Auto
111. Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 8:17 149 ´01 460 / 1882 Sport Auto
112. BMW Z8 8:18 149 ´00 400 / 1585 "Sport Auto"
113. Chevrolet Corvette C5 Comm. Edition Targa 8:18 149 ´04 344 / 1452 Sportauto
114. Maserati Coupe GranSport 8:18 149 ´04 400 / 1680 Sport Auto
115. Lexus IS F 8:18 149 ´07 423 / 1732 Sport Auto
116. Porsche Boxster S (facelift) 8:18 149 ´09 310 / 1380 sportauto
117. Porsche 987 Boxster S (276bhp) 8:18.00 149 ´05 280 / 1345 Walter Rohl
118. Audi RS6 (C5) 8:20 148 ´02 450 / 1840
119. Chevrolet Camaro SS 2010 8:20 148 ´10 432 / 1750 Chevrolet test team
120. BMW M3 (E46) 8:22 148 ´00 343 / 1565 "Sport Auto"
121. Mercedes C 55 AMG 8:22 148 ´04 367 / 1680 Sport Auto
122. BMW Z3 M Coupe 8:22.0 148 ´99 315 / 1465 sportauto
123. Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R 8:22.38 148 ´89 280 / 1430 Motoharu Kurosawa (b
124. Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 8:22.85 147 ´08 260 / 1352
125. Porsche 986 Boxster S (262bhp) 8:23 147 ´04 266 / 1320 Sport Auto
126. Aston Martin DB7 GT 8:23 147 ´03 435 / 1780 Sport Auto
127. Mercedes SLK 55 AMG 8:24 147 ´06 360 / 1495 Sport Auto
128. Subaru Impreza WRX STi 8:24 147 ´05 280 / 1500 Sport Auto
129. BMW X6 M 8:24 (IT) 147 ´09 555 / 2343 sportauto
130. Mitsubishi Evo VII 8:25 147 ´02 280 / 1454 Sportauto
131. Audi RS4 Avant (B5) 8:25 147 ´00 380 / 1675 Sportauto
132. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI 8:25 147 ´99 280 / 1384 Sportauto
133. Callaway C12 8:25 147 ´99 400 / 1565 Sport Auto
134. Jaguar XKR 8:25 147 ´06 420 / 1776 Sport Auto
135. Lotus Exige S Performance-Pack 8:25 147 ´06 243 / 940 Sport Auto
136. Mercedes SLK 32 AMG 8:26 147 ´01 354 / 1395 Sport Auto
137. Nissan 350Z (283bhp) 8:26 147 ´02 287 / 1532 Sport Auto
138. BMW 335i Coupe 8:26 147 ´06 306 / 1610 Sport Auto
139. Audi S5 8:26 147 ´07 354 / 1630 Sport Auto
140. Ford Focus RS Mk. II 8:26 147 ´09 305 / 1467 Sport Auto
141. BMW M5 (E39) 8:28 146 ´98 400 / 1795 Sport Auto
142. Porsche 993 Carrera 8:28 146 ´93 272 / 1350 Sport Auto
143. Porsche 993 Carrera Cabrio 8:28 146 ´95 286 / 1370 Sport Auto
144. Porsche 964 Carrera RS 8:28 146 ´91 260 / 1220 sportauto
145. Porsche 993 Carrera 2 (285 PS) 8:28.0 146 ´95 285 / 1398 Sport Auto
146. Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 V-Spec II 8:28.1 146 ´98 305 / 1532 Steve Sutcliffe
147. Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 8:28.10 146 ´98 280 / 1666 Autocar
148. Mercedes CLK 55 AMG 8:29 146 ´99 347 / 1520 Sport Auto
149. Audi S4 (B6) Avant 8:29 146 ´03 344 / 1720 sportauto
150. Audi TT-S Coupe 8:29 146 ´08 272 / 1395 Sport Auto
151. Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa 8:30 145 ´02 390 / 1580 Sport Auto
152. Pontiac G8 GXP 8:30:0 (FC) 145 ´08 420 / 1828 Non-Professional Guy
153. Cadillac STS-V 8:31 145 ´06 476 / 1948 AutoWeek
154. BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe 8:32 145 ´06 265 / 1408 Sportauto
155. BMW Z3 M Roadster 8:32 145 ´97 321 / 1350 Sport Auto
156. Lotus Exige 8:32 145 ´04 192 / 907 Sport Auto
157. Porsche 986 Boxster S (248bhp) 8:32 145 ´99 252 / 1295 Sport Auto
158. BMW Z4 3.0i 8:32.0 145 ´03 231 / 1384 Sportauto
159. Porsche Cayenne Turbo (Mk II) 8:33.99 144 ´08 500 / 2355 Patrick Simon
160. Vauxhall VX220 Turbo 8:34 144 ´03 200 / 930 "Sport Auto"
161. Opel Speedster Turbo 8:34 144 ´ 200 / 928 Sportauto
162. BMW Z3 3.0i 8:34 144 ´00 231 / 1330 Sport Auto
163. BMW M3 (E36) 8:35 144 ´96 321 / 1474 Sport Auto
164. Mini John Cooper Works 8:35 144 ´08 211 / 1130 Sport Auto
Fawk that GT2 is fast around the ring. They just set the bar higher for every other performance car manufacturer.
How fast is the 458 around the ring?
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      05-14-2010, 05:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dito View Post
Fawk that GT2 is fast around the ring. They just set the bar higher for every other performance car manufacturer.
How fast is the 458 around the ring?
We have no time, but I think it could go come close to 7:20 min and the McLaren under could reach 7:15 min.
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      05-14-2010, 02:16 PM   #39
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      05-14-2010, 03:23 PM   #40
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New Nurburgring time also - 7:18!
is there a video to corraborate this time?
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      05-14-2010, 09:28 PM   #41
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is there a video to corraborate this time?
I haven't seen one. But, it was officially recorded and listed.
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      05-14-2010, 11:48 PM   #42
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Quote:
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This is not about who is faster or not its about what the car offers its either a a daily/road oriented supercar or a track focused supercar. After that we can compare the road oriented cars and the track oriented cars.

MP4-12c - Road
Italia - Road
SLS -Road


LP570-SV- Track
SL Black -Track
GT2 RS- Track
Scuderia -Track
R8 GT - Track


GT3 RS and M3 GTS are on a B list of track cars

Im not saying this is written in stone but makes more sense IMHO.
personally they all perform so close to each other that it is really not matter. these discussion about performance is really just mood, nothing else.

so based on emotional and desired factor, I would take the italia, scuderia, and sls if i have sh1t load of money. the way they look really excite me. the rest are also exciting, but to a lesser extend.
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      05-15-2010, 01:21 AM   #43
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