[poldim]

I'd just like to hear some of your opinions about this topic.

I migrated to this country from Russia in 1992 shortly after the collapse of the USSR. I’ve now spent the better the past ~14 years off and on here in the States. I consider myself an American but am ashamed of what the US government has done in relation to the 9/11 “attacks”. I don’t want to make an enormous post fill with my opinions of what they have and have not done. I’m more interested in the opinions of the other intellectuals that can be found here on E90 Post.




I only ask of two things:
Try to keep this thread free of personal attacks on each other. We are all civilized people and should be able to conduct ourselves accordingly.
If you are arguing something as fact, please try to link us to some kind of proof or evidence in one nicely written post. This will allow others to view a nicely composed thread and give more credibility to your post.






Videos: (Some of the links from the previous thread, Dubya)
Loose Change 2nd Edition: (The one I saw most recently) http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81991288263801
SEPTEMBER 11: Evidence to the Contrary REDUX 2006: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...13046180631815
Loose Change 9-11 Alex Jones Conspiracy: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20890224991194
Iraq War Coalition Fatalities: http://www.obleek.com/iraq/

[Macfreak7]

Pandora? Is that you?

[Enroutte]

I was at work the other day and some coworker said "I don't see why they just nuke the whole damn place." I wanted to tell her she was ignorant, but I just said, "Heh.. yeah."

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by Enroutte

I was at work the other day and some coworker said "I don't see why they just nuke the whole damn place." I wanted to tell her she was ignorant, but I just said, "Heh.. yeah."

I said the exact same thing in 9th grade. I should have said use napalm instead...

[Enroutte]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

I said the exact same thing in 9th grade. I should have said use napalm instead...

The lady who said this was in her late 20s and obiously uneducated. Anyone who can say something like that obviously doesnt grasp the situation.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by Enroutte

The lady who said this was in her late 20s and obiously uneducated. Anyone who can say something like that obviously doesnt grasp the situation.

If there was a way to contain nuclear "dust", I'd agree with her.

[Enroutte]

There isn't. Shutup David

[shimshimhada]

[poldim]

David, can you for once try to stay on topic and not post completely unnecessary pictures, link, or whatever else you might think of?

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by poldim

David, can you for once try to stay on topic and not post completely unnecessary pictures, link, or whatever else you might think of?

lol okay. My honest opinion is that since we'll never know 100%, it's useless arguing about it. Unless someone decides to be a whistle blower 50 years later...maybe then we'll know.

[poldim]

Thank you.

[BMW F22]

this happened when I was a sophomore and I joked about it at first because I didnt see the video and I didnt even know how serious it was. Then after seeing the videos and the casualties, I felt terrible. THe thought of being burned to death scared the shit out of me. Basically, if they werent dead, they either had to jump or get burned. Fuck they couldnt even choose to live or die. It was just how to die: burned to death or get smashed up to death. I actually thought: why dont they just turn the whole middle east to a parking lot. Who gave them the right to play God with people's lives and tried to justify for it by saying that we have sinned. I am not trying to attack anyone here but some religions are seriously wrong. If I ran the country and found Osama, I wouldnt just kill him. I would make him suffer. Forget about cruel and unusualy punishments, they dont apply to terrorists. Those only apply to men/women, not beasts. I would torture him until he cant move, see, or speak anymore. Then I will let him rest and torture him again. It's a cycle of punishments and torturing for him. Let him know what it feels like to be burned and dropped off a 100 story building. Fucking bastard!

[BMW F22]

and so far, the Government has only made everything worse. They didnt do all they could to make anything better.

[romeo26]

well i dont know what to do!! i guess if we cant find osama then what can we do...nothing!! honestly the government should hire a international bounty hunter, in my oppinion i think they do better, cuse its usually one person and the people who there looking for wouldent know who we sent looking for him. nuking the hole place wouldent do much if hes not in that area, pluse theres too much risk of the side effects, alot of people(innocent) would die, and more and more people would hate the us for doin that, and cause more problems. but if they were planing an atack on socal (friend told me that we might be the next target) then i think they should stop whats going on in iraq and send them looking for osama in stead.

[poldim]

Do you guys believe Osama did it or the US Government?

[ska///235i]

very interesting, but alot of Americans will not believe this.
I think our Gov is full of shiet

[BMW F22]

I seriously dont know how we go from looking for Osama to war in Iraq. Talk about sidetracking. Its been 5 fucking years and still not a hint of him. I just dont get it. We have all the technology in the world and we still cant find him. Maybe he did do it for the US. Maybe this was all a setup. It's not that hard to believe.

[cdheaven]

Here is what i believe. this is not fact, there for, dont ask me for proof, or say im wrong...... cause this is just what i believe.
1. George Bush was warned that there COULD be an attack involving A. planes B. The twin Towers. which means the whole thing probably could have been prevented
2. If we had a president that gave even a little bit of a fuck about the rest of the world this would never have happened
3. people that have flags on their cars are not automatically patriots and people that have ribbons on their cars dont automatically support the war.
4. our retalitions to the attacks were pathetic and unrelated
5. americans, in generally, dont care about other countries, and thats why the whole world hates us. we have enough money to not have any poor countries in the world, and we have enough food to not have any starving countries in the world

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by cdheaven

Here is what i believe. this is not fact, there for, dont ask me for proof, or say im wrong...... cause this is just what i believe.
1. George Bush was warned that there COULD be an attack involving A. planes B. The twin Towers. which means the whole thing probably could have been prevented
2. If we had a president that gave even a little bit of a fuck about the rest of the world this would never have happened
3. people that have flags on their cars are not automatically patriots and people that have ribbons on their cars dont automatically support the war.
4. our retalitions to the attacks were pathetic and unrelated
5. americans, in generally, dont care about other countries, and thats why the whole world hates us. we have enough money to not have any poor countries in the world, and we have enough food to not have any starving countries in the world

IT seems that everything in America is blown out of proportion. Everything seems harder that it really is. Home of the braves my ass.

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by poldim

Do you guys believe Osama did it or the US Government?

I cannot believe you wouldn't think Al Qa'ida didn't cause WTC. What evidence do you have to support your theory?

These videos, talking points, etc have 99% been discounted by people in the fields or realms of engineering, physics, avionics, aeronautical engineers, architects, and the list goes on and on.

People susceptible to believe these theories must also think for a second. What type of theory is this one suggesting?
Do they provide any factual evidence?
What evidence out there concludes otherwise?
What type of bias is this person presenting?
Is the presentation based on facts or opinions?
Is there a counterpoint or a view on other theories or the widely accepted theory?
Do they have experts in any field (must be related) talking?

Instantly looking at those questions you can discount about 75% of the theories out there. The other 25% do make some valid opinions and show a couple of facts but again are discounted by experiments or knowledgably persons in the field.

Seriously I can link to a dozen threads on a dozen forums on theories about 9/11 and then Google a fact to instantly discount the theory.

I can edit a tape to share my points or to demonstrate a bias on something that I have no knowledge about. Does this latest theory or guy have a degree in any field to make any claims whatsoever?

[JB 330ci]

Originally Posted by cdheaven

Here is what i believe. this is not fact, there for, dont ask me for proof, or say im wrong...... cause this is just what i believe.
1. George Bush was warned that there COULD be an attack involving A. planes B. The twin Towers. which means the whole thing probably could have been prevented
2. If we had a president that gave even a little bit of a fuck about the rest of the world this would never have happened
3. people that have flags on their cars are not automatically patriots and people that have ribbons on their cars dont automatically support the war.
4. our retalitions to the attacks were pathetic and unrelated
5. americans, in generally, dont care about other countries, and thats why the whole world hates us. we have enough money to not have any poor countries in the world, and we have enough food to not have any starving countries in the world

1.
We receive warnings about attacks everyday in the United States. You must weigh each one accordantly. Just because the president was warned of an attack I'm sure Clinton was warned of an embassy attack as well. Hindsight is always 20/20. Should of, could of, ought to...mistakes were likely made...but there was no significant credible shred of evidence pointing directly to the method, means, people, and location of the attacks. If such a documents exists than I will retract my statement.
"We have credible reporting indicting that Al Qa'ida or associated organizations are planning an attack in the United States or Interests overseas." Sometimes we stop them (LAX, Seattle 2000, NY,NJ Banks, Miami,) and sometimes we don't (USS Cole, Khobar Towers, Embassy Bombings in Africa, WTC bombing)

2.
Any person in government holds security and terrorism a serious issue. However pre 9/11 we were reactive and not proactive. We did not hunt down the terrorists, we only responded when attacked. This significant shift after 9/11 has lead the the security we have today in the U.S. It has made it harder for terrorists to plan, and execute an attack in the United States. Previous presidents had the ability and means to "nip this in the bud" before it blossomed to the problem it is today. However a trigger was needed for the U.S. to make this shift in stance. 9/11 was that trigger. regretfully, it required 9/11 to happen for the U.S. to realize and for the public at large to realize how much terrorism is a problem.

Look at it this way, would anyone support going into Afghanistan in 1999 or 2000 when the famed hijackers were training. We already knew the Taliban and Al Qa'ida were evil and supported terrorism. So what changed and why did we go in? 9/11

3. True, it's just one of those "fads" nowadays.

4. I strongly disagree. US finally "woke" up to the "era" or terrorism. No one imagined 9/11 could happen with the tragic loss of life in the thousands. In response the GWOT was launched and we took out Afghanistan. We have made considerable gains in the war on terrorism. However this will be a long war which will not be won through military means only. It will require a broad-based policy of engagement, suppression, elimination, and support of Moderate Muslims.

5. Negative. The U.S. is the biggest contributor of world aid and provides much of the food for distribution to countries which face famine or starvation problems. If you really support such a hard-line- utilitarian viewpoint than you would not be driving a BMW and you yourself would contribute your money to USAID or a dozen other organizations which benefit these poor countries. Remember kids are suffering as we speak...your $20,000 dollars could go a long way to make those kids happy. The greatest good for the greatest happiness.

Personally I don't support such a view, however, if I did I wouldn't live such a hypocritical, double-standard life.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Tra...nAid/wm630.cfm
http://dieoff.org/page40.htm

If you really want to continue bashing without facts do it somewhere else.

[cdheaven]

Originally Posted by JB 330ci

1.


If you really want to continue basing without facts do it somewhere else.

the VERRRRRY first thing i said was i was expressing an opinion. and im not gonna do it anywhere else, im gonna do it in a thread called "Share your opinions"

2. im a capitalist i want to be rich. When i decide i care more about EVERYYYYYONES wealth, over just my own, i will run for president. I respect money hungry, greedy capitalist, but i dont believe the president should be one.
please note, im not 100% a hypocrite on this particular bullet point, because i am a vegan for many reasons, one reason being, if all we ate were veggies, there would be more then enough food for the whole world to it.

3. We did we get attacked by {mostly}saudi Arabians, and immediately go to war with Afghanistan?

4. i understand the president gets (notice i didn't say reads or understands) warnings on a "daily" basis, but as far as I believe, he received one that was MUCH more precise then the normal "hey its Tuesday, which means we MIGHT in SOME way have SOME sort of confrontation if I was president, and I got a warning we were gonna get attacked using airplanes, I would have put marshals on THENNNN not 2 weeks after the attacks.

5. i believe your rebuttal to number 2 was totally unrelated. i think, PERSONALLY when Clinton was in office, terrorists were like "hey, this dude is cool, he is like us, he likes to hump sluts, and he likes to help out the normal average Joe, lets NOT attack the us" then bush came into office and terrorists everywhere where like "what the fuck is wrong with this dude, he is a jerk, noowwwww lets attack them"

6. I dont have a six. im still angry you told me my facts were wrong after i disclosed they were opinions and I did so in a thread that said to share opinions. Not to give what YOU believe are facts.