[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Any steering issues when stationary/parking? Particularly with the engine at idle too? Like, at a standstill, engine idling, if you go lock to lock does it judder or groan etc?

I feel like my car has a similar issue to yours, and I'm aware my steering pump is weak/worn. I'm also aware that I have similar play in the column (I'd call that radial, btw), which improves when the wheel is adjusted fully forward (away from the driver); the play is in the telescoping part that allows axial (in/out) steering wheel adjustment.

That said, I'm rwd so maybe it's something entirely unrelated

Yes, but no issues with the hydraulic steering system that I’m aware of. Pump is pretty new and also got replaced with a new new pump, haha…

Ah, thank you. Indeed it would be radial play in the column bearings, if there is any.

To say I’m frustrated with this whole thing would be an understatement. I’m now at the point where I’m questioning whether I can REALLY assume the reman rack is okay, or if there’s some chance it’s not… I’m trying to start with the least expensive and easiest options, which at this point is really the column.

[Tambohamilton]

Yeah, good luck with it!

Have you tried sanity checking the geo? Just string line from the rear wheels, and spirit level for the camber?

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Yeah, good luck with it!

Have you tried sanity checking the geo? Just string line from the rear wheels, and spirit level for the camber?

Thanks! Honestly at this point I would buy a brand new column at $1000 if I knew it would fix my issue… I just won’t do that unless I’m sure. Haha.

I haven’t, but I honestly don’t think it’s an alignment issue. I say this because it seems to be present stationary and is more a feeling of wheels being disconnected from steering and looseness in steering linkage.

I’ll have to look up how to do what you describe. I haven’t done this before but certainly would give it a try!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

... I’m trying to start with the least expensive and easiest options, which at this point is really the column.

My Observations/ Suggestions:
The Rack Tower (to which the Lower Steering Shaft U-Joint attaches) is MOVING in BOTH your videos. Is engine running for Power Assist of steeering I presume? Are front wheels in air, or on ground?

I would jack ONE road wheel 1" off pavement/floor. Leave OTHER wheel on ground. Grip Road Wheel at 3- & 9-o'clock; see what movement of rack or rack tower occurs when attempting to turn jacked wheel In/Out. If you can move Road Wheel WITHOUT ROTATING Steering Shaft (Lock Steering Wheel or have someone hold it firmly) there is play in linkage, tie rods, or Rack Pinion Gear (adjustable?), or Rack Mounts.

Do SAME test with BOTH front wheels off floor, trying to locate WHAT Moves that should NOT.

When you Rotate Steering Wheel ~ 1 inch Right/Left (Clockwise/Counter-clockwise) is there any play at all, or simply "rubber resistance" from tire deflection? My 3/2007 build E91 328xi has NO play (only "rubber resistance" with NO "free play" or movement with NO resistance), and AFAIK is all-original as far as suspension & steering components. Has NOT been driven in salt (much) in it's "Mid-Atlantic (MD/VA) life though.

Jaguar used Rubber ('Metalastic') bushings on steering rack mounts on its cars in 60's thru 90's, and those regularly failed resulting in loose steering and required replacement. That was EASY to diagnose (per above tests), and cheap and easy to replace. I have NO experience with BMW Rack Mounts.
George

[Tambohamilton]

Steering rack is bolted directly to the subframe

[e90yyc]

gbalthrop Thanks!

I will give this a try.

In the mean time, if anyone is willing to check their steering column for play by grabbing the steering shaft right where it attaches to the column and seeing if it can be pushed/pulled up/down/sideways, I would be eternally grateful.

I know it’s a big ask because if requires popping off the cowl and airbox, but I’d appreciate it immensely.

[chilledn52]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

gbalthrop Thanks!

I will give this a try.

In the mean time, if anyone is willing to check their steering column for play by grabbing the steering shaft right where it attaches to the column and seeing if it can be pushed/pulled up/down/sideways, I would be eternally grateful.

I know it’s a big ask because if requires popping off the cowl and airbox, but I’d appreciate it immensely.

Ill send ya a video clip of me doing it later today! Best of luck figuring this out. Hope its not a defective reman as I understand the struggle with them

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by chilledn52

Ill send ya a video clip of me doing it later today! Best of luck figuring this out. Hope its not a defective reman as I understand the struggle with them

Thanks a million for sending those vids!

The sound in engine bay when turning wheel sounds similar, so while I initially thought perhaps the rack was bad, my attention is once again back on the column :/

[Captain Buumer]

At one point i was in similar problem - driving felt loose, felt like old soviet car where you could move steering wheel 90 degrees but car was still driving straight.

Worth checking:
1. Steering column Lower joint assembly, there are two torx bolts one on the upper part & one on the lower part - both were loose.
2. Both front strut bolts were loose that hold it in carrier.

With the above problems i had play in the steering wheel, it didn't feel like straight connection with the tyres.

With the above done it was much better.
And with new tyres - Michelin this time - it was even better.

[e90yyc]

Captain Buumer Thanks man!

I will check the strut bolts; this is one of the few things I haven’t looked at.

Steering shaft is brand new and bolts are also new and torqued to spec.

[e90yyc]

Captain Just checked the strut pinch bolt at knuckle. She’s tighter than a nun’s, so I don’t think that’s my issue.

If anyone has suggestions for how to lock steering wheel in place (other than column lock/ELV), I’d love to hear.

gbalthrop How many miles on your 328?

I have a feeling the issue I’m having is somewhat unique to (or perhaps more common with) the xi models. The additional lower double-cardan joint and slightly different angles in the linkage are, I think, making this slightly trickier to diagnose.

To give a very simple answer to your question of what’s moving that I don’t think should be, see the red area in the screenshot of the video I posted. There seems to be an awful lot of radial (thx Tambohamilton for pointing out my confusion of axial/radial) play that’s coming from the steering column side. There are at least a few bearings inside the column that could be to blame. The tricky thing is that this doesn’t seem to be a common issue—or at least it isn’t written about much.

What I’m aiming to do is rule out the column itself before I go back down the road of putting in a third steering rack (I just can’t yet accept that Bosch would let a rack leave their reman line that’s so blatantly out of spec… especially when the issue was the exact same with the rack it replaced.)

I do have my original rack (not the one this replaced, haha) that I thought was responsible for a noise that I still hear and have since accepted is just normal. But, rack replacement on an xi (as I’m sure you know) isn’t a “give it a try and see” kind of job. If I do have to repeat it, I want it to be the LAST time I ever do it, haha.

It actually is possible to remove the rack without touching the subframe, but you have to remove the hard lines that are attached to it first.

Anyway, the reman rack I just put in felt tighter on the bench than any of the other racks I’ve laid hands on, and while I know that doesn’t mean it’s good, it does tell me that their reman process hopefully includes checking lash and adjusting the rack preload.

Ugh.

[gbalthrop]

What I'm suggesting is to see if RACK TOWER (Pinion Tower/Shaft where lower column U-Joint is attached) MOVES when Road Wheel turned IN/OUT, hands at 9- & 3-o'clock.

You have shown that you CAN deflect the Tower by pressing on the lower shaft, and even by turning Steering Wheel. But what CAN happen to cause "Loose Steering", "Road Camber Chasing", or reaction to bumps or uneven surfaces, is that the Road Wheels move the Rack, even though the Steering Wheel (& Lower Column) remain steady. You FEEL a change in forces working on the Steering Wheel (from the Rack), but the Road Wheels turn in/out (slightly) WITHOUT column rotation.

That's my SWAG, based upon your Videos. 138K miles on my 3/2007 build 328xi. I have NOT replaced anything in Steering/ Suspension (appears original) in 6+ years of my ownership. Zero steering play with frequent "winding country road" enjoyment. Stock 16" Conti RSC Runflats. After NEW RSC's installed, took about 300 miles to achieve same stable handling that OLD RSC's had (worn to 2/32" tread depth & to wear bars when replaced).
George

[Brian86]

I'm with George on this. Get a second set of hands, and push the tires to try and cause the radial motion you see in the steering shaft.

Or mount a phone camera there while you push and shove and crow-bar around.

My 4wd is at 360, and AFAIK, except the hydraulic strut rod bushings, and tie rods, everything in there dates back to Munich in 2005. I did have to snug up the splined pinch couplers on the lower U-joint, and my slipring squeaks, but it drives more-or-less perfectly.

If life doesn't get in the way too much, I'll go wiggle mine around and see if there is any similar motion at the firewall penetration, but if I recall it's not easy to get access down there when everything is buttoned up.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by Brian86

I'm with George on this. Get a second set of hands, and push the tires to try and cause the radial motion you see in the steering shaft.

Or mount a phone camera there while you push and shove and crow-bar around.

My 4wd is at 360, and AFAIK, except the hydraulic strut rod bushings, and tie rods, everything in there dates back to Munich in 2005. I did have to snug up the splined pinch couplers on the lower U-joint, and my slipring squeaks, but it drives more-or-less perfectly.

If life doesn't get in the way too much, I'll go wiggle mine around and see if there is any similar motion at the firewall penetration, but if I recall it's not easy to get access down there when everything is buttoned up.

Thanks!

Definitely need a helper for this… I have set up my phone a few times but it’s tricky to capture this well.

If you have a phone mount (for this kinda thing), mind sharing brand/where you bought it? I’m not sure what folks here are using, and trying to find something suitable by searching online has been a bit hit and miss.

And if you do find some time to capture a vid or two of you pulling the topmost section of the steering shaft where it meets column that would be massively, massively appreciated. This is still the single-biggest question mark for me, because it’s difficult for me to diagnose this without knowing whether the movement I’m seeing there is normal.

I say this because I’ve spent hours and have pushed/pulled/prodded/disassembled and the only thing that’s jumping out at me is that column-side radial movement. It may be a red herring, but I don’t yet know…

In the meantime I’ll get someone to come give me a hand…

[bimmermech123]

Sorry this took a while, but I went to the junkyard recently and inspected the area of the firewall where the steering shaft meets the steering column while turning/pulling the steering shaft on a few cars. They all had the same radial play as exhibited by your video. Now this doesn't mean this is normal, these cars are all high mileage, but I don't think the problem lies with the steering column.

On a side note, pulling the steering shaft up and down is a great way to test the steering shaft u-joints for play. I made a video of the play I saw on one of the junkyard u-joints.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vONIGrjOmh8

I know you already replaced the steering shaft twice, and if you can lock down a steering column for cheap, why not replace it to eliminate the column for sure.

I also have some similar symptoms along with a clicking sound when shaking the steering wheel with the engine off. It's probably play in the u-joint(s) that's not apparent when the steering shaft is rotating, but might show itself when pulling the steering shaft up/down. I'll have to do that some day.

[bimmermech123]

BTW, I couldn't record a video of the where the steering shaft meets the column since it was hard to hold the camera steady enough while pulling to get a clear video. Also not really a place I want to set my phone up on.

[bimmermech123]

Did you ever end up replacing the steering column? I removed the kick panel and wiggled the steering column near the rubber boot and felt some play and heard the knocking sound that has plagued my car.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by bimmermech123

Did you ever end up replacing the steering column? I removed the kick panel and wiggled the steering column near the rubber boot and felt some play and heard the knocking sound that has plagued my car.

I put in a junkyard column many months ago, but it didn’t seem to make a difference sadly. Perhaps it too was bad, or my issue is elsewhere.

I ended up returning it, primarily because it didn’t have ELV solenoid, which meant I would have had to use an emulator if in wanted to keep it.

I would consider trying another one, but I’m not sure.

Funnily enough, I’ve connected with someone locally (who has a 335xi) and should be meeting up with him sometime this weekend. He said his car has no slop in the steering. I don’t wanna bring wrenches haha but I’m hoping I can feel around a bit and see how his steering behaves.

This is basically the only unresolved issue with my car and it’s killing the driving experience…

Are you planning on replacing the column?

[bimmermech123]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

I put in a junkyard column many months ago, but it didn’t seem to make a difference sadly. Perhaps it too was bad, or my issue is elsewhere.

I ended up returning it, primarily because it didn’t have ELV solenoid, which meant I would have had to use an emulator if in wanted to keep it.

I would consider trying another one, but I’m not sure.

Funnily enough, I’ve connected with someone locally (who has a 335xi) and should be meeting up with him sometime this weekend. He said his car has no slop in the steering. I don’t wanna bring wrenches haha but I’m hoping I can feel around a bit and see how his steering behaves.

This is basically the only unresolved issue with my car and it’s killing the driving experience…

Are you planning on replacing the column?

I would only pull the trigger on replacing the steering column if I could find a parts car that I could drive and ensure that their is no slop or slight knocking noise. But if you could drive a parts car, it probably wouldn't be a parts car lol.

I did go to a junkyard and pull a steering column and inspected the inner workings of the column. From what I could surmise, the steering column is composed of a metal splined shaft with a plastic washer that interfaces with the splined shaft. When I had the column out of the car, I could see a millimeter of play between the splined shaft and the plastic washer, but no knocking sound. I didn't end up purchasing due to uncertainty of tolerances for the steering column.

I've scoured the forums and I've never heard of a 335i having these steering issues. Is it possible they have a different part number for the steering column? It's improbable and a longshot, but might be worth checking while you meet with the fellow E90er.

[PhaceN52]

Originally Posted by bimmermech123

I would only pull the trigger on replacing the steering column if I could find a parts car that I could drive and ensure that their is no slop or slight knocking noise. But if you could drive a parts car, it probably wouldn't be a parts car lol.

I did go to a junkyard and pull a steering column and inspected the inner workings of the column. From what I could surmise, the steering column is composed of a metal splined shaft with a plastic washer that interfaces with the splined shaft. When I had the column out of the car, I could see a millimeter of play between the splined shaft and the plastic washer, but no knocking sound. I didn't end up purchasing due to uncertainty of tolerances for the steering column.

I've scoured the forums and I've never heard of a 335i having these steering issues. Is it possible they have a different part number for the steering column? It's improbable and a longshot, but might be worth checking while you meet with the fellow E90er.

Realoem says the steering column is the same from 320i to M3, pre-lci and lci. What you say about the plastic washer is on point I think, was thinking about something similar while looking at the video, 'cause if there isn't play in the rack, play on the splines of the steering shaft (improbable), being the rack hard bolted to the subframe without any kind of other mount and if there isn't play between the car under dash metal mounting bar and the column body itself, that's the only logical place where some play should develop (where the yellow arrows point in the image). That or the column regulation system... mine too is a little bit loose at dead center, might have to check if there's play in the linkage as in the videos.