[E93UK]

Hi,

Strange issue with my E93 330i. Its happened twice now and wondering if anyone can shed any light on what might be wrong.

Key in ignition, hit start with brake pedal down, car wont crank, dash is dead, I Drive screen blank.

Radio works and comes up on I Drive screen when you turn it on.

This has happened both times at home so I've had access to my laptop to try and scan for codes, INPA detects ignition on. During the vehicle identification on ISTA its brings the car back to life, dash lights up, I Drive starts and car then starts no problem.

No fault codes stored.

Any ideas on what could be causing this? A bit annoying as its not generating any codes and seems very sporadic.

Don't really want to have to carry a laptop round every day!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by E93UK

... E93 330i... Key in ignition, hit start with brake pedal down, car wont crank, dash is dead, I Drive screen blank. Radio works and comes up on I Drive screen when you turn it on. INPA detects ignition on. During the vehicle identification on ISTA its brings the car back to life, dash lights up, I Drive starts and car then starts no problem. No fault codes stored...

Welcome to the Forum!
SWAG #1: CAS power supply due to LOOSE/ Intermittent Connection. But you have INPA/ISTA, and we don't need to GUESS.

Are you SURE there are NO Fault Codes in ANY of ~ 20 Modules? Lack of Power Supply due to loose/corroded connection may NOT cause a Fault Code to be saved. I would suggest re-examining ISTA Fault Memory screen, and also INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory, ALL Modules. If any codes are found in ANY module, connect to that module and read Fault Details, saving ScreenPrint & posting jpg/png file here.

If NO fault codes in any module, then make best recollection of WHAT did NOT function or light when you opened door, inserted remote key, pressed START button, or AFTER NO Starter Function. If Instrument Cluster did NOT "Light-up" when START button pressed, that indicates CAS KL15 was NOT activated.

Different Interior Lights are powered via different "Terminals", KL30, KL30G, even KL15, at least FZD Module supply. So analyzing what is powered, and what is NOT, and doing some voltage tests with Multimeter, WHILE "blackout" is occurring, may be ONLY way to gather clues. As example, IHKA Panel lights are powered via KL30G (Accessory) Relay, while door & footwell lamps are powered via KL30 power.

Since CAS Module activates KL15 (Ignition) and KL30G (Accessory) Relays, lack of power of a KL30G component may be due to KL30G NOT being activated by CAS, OR to CAS Power Supply being interrupted. That could be due to interruption of power supply to entire JB Fuse Panel (via X13020 connector from battery on right of panel), or lack of power supply to CAS.

So "Follow the Power $upply".
I would BEGIN by checking ALL the connections at the Battery, including the 10mm nuts on T-bolt Terminal Connectors, 13mm nuts on RPDP (Rear Power Distribution Panel) studs under two "flip-up" plastic covers. Particularly important if anyone has disconnected battery recently.

INPA/ISTA is probably NOT much help in identifying cause/location of power interruption. Only thing I can think of immediately is "INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Diagnosis". That screen will show voltage at ALL terminals: two CAS Fuses (30E & 30L), KLR (Radio/Brake Light Switch), KL15-x, KL30G, KL50 (Starter activation). Problem is, if CAS Module is NOT powered, then you can't connect to CAS Module to view that screen.

Your statement about ISTA "vehicle identification" resulting in restored power supply is perhaps the best "Clue" to date. Depending upon Model & build Month/Year, the OBD II Socket has different power supply to Pin #1. My 3/2007 build 328xi has Ignition-switched (KL15) power at Pin #1 & Battery Power (KL30) at Pin #16. Later vehicles have NO power supply at Pin #1.

So if you will provide your Last-7 VIN, or check "OBD II" in Text Search on your own ISTA installation for Pin #1 function on YOUR vehicle, that may offer some clues.

Also, loose/ corroded electrical connections may NOT transmit power after sitting unused for hours/days, UNTIL battery voltage ~ 12.5V is INCREASED to ~ 14.x Volts by attaching Battery Charger to Jumpstart Terminals. The additional voltage may be enough to trigger current flow in a previously "Open" circuit.
George

[loganmecham]

Originally Posted by E93UK

Hi,

Strange issue with my E93 330i. Its happened twice now and wondering if anyone can shed any light on what might be wrong.

Key in ignition, hit start with brake pedal down, car wont crank, dash is dead, I Drive screen blank.

Radio works and comes up on I Drive screen when you turn it on.

This has happened both times at home so I've had access to my laptop to try and scan for codes, INPA detects ignition on. During the vehicle identification on ISTA its brings the car back to life, dash lights up, I Drive starts and car then starts no problem.

No fault codes stored.

Any ideas on what could be causing this? A bit annoying as its not generating any codes and seems very sporadic.

Don't really want to have to carry a laptop round every day!

Had a similar problem with my car with no start, it ended up being a low battery voltage from a bad battery. I'd try testing voltage with a multimeter and if it's low replace your battery. I've had to replace mine 4 times now in the last 3 years (Yes registered), so I don't recommend the OReileys SuperStart brand batteries (Not even sure what you'd have in the UK).

Good luck!

[E93UK]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Welcome to the Forum!
SWAG #1: CAS power supply due to LOOSE/ Intermittent Connection. But you have INPA/ISTA, and we don't need to GUESS.

Are you SURE there are NO Fault Codes in ANY of ~ 20 Modules? Lack of Power Supply due to loose/corroded connection may NOT cause a Fault Code to be saved. I would suggest re-examining ISTA Fault Memory screen, and also INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory, ALL Modules. If any codes are found in ANY module, connect to that module and read Fault Details, saving ScreenPrint & posting jpg/png file here.

If NO fault codes in any module, then make best recollection of WHAT did NOT function or light when you opened door, inserted remote key, pressed START button, or AFTER NO Starter Function. If Instrument Cluster did NOT "Light-up" when START button pressed, that indicates CAS KL15 was NOT activated.

Different Interior Lights are powered via different "Terminals", KL30, KL30G, even KL15, at least FZD Module supply. So analyzing what is powered, and what is NOT, and doing some voltage tests with Multimeter, WHILE "blackout" is occurring, may be ONLY way to gather clues. As example, IHKA Panel lights are powered via KL30G (Accessory) Relay, while door & footwell lamps are powered via KL30 power.

Since CAS Module activates KL15 (Ignition) and KL30G (Accessory) Relays, lack of power of a KL30G component may be due to KL30G NOT being activated by CAS, OR to CAS Power Supply being interrupted. That could be due to interruption of power supply to entire JB Fuse Panel (via X13020 connector from battery on right of panel), or lack of power supply to CAS.

So "Follow the Power $upply".
I would BEGIN by checking ALL the connections at the Battery, including the 10mm nuts on T-bolt Terminal Connectors, 13mm nuts on RPDP (Rear Power Distribution Panel) studs under two "flip-up" plastic covers. Particularly important if anyone has disconnected battery recently.

INPA/ISTA is probably NOT much help in identifying cause/location of power interruption. Only thing I can think of immediately is "INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Diagnosis". That screen will show voltage at ALL terminals: two CAS Fuses (30E & 30L), KLR (Radio/Brake Light Switch), KL15-x, KL30G, KL50 (Starter activation). Problem is, if CAS Module is NOT powered, then you can't connect to CAS Module to view that screen.

Your statement about ISTA "vehicle identification" resulting in restored power supply is perhaps the best "Clue" to date. Depending upon Model & build Month/Year, the OBD II Socket has different power supply to Pin #1. My 3/2007 build 328xi has Ignition-switched (KL15) power at Pin #1 & Battery Power (KL30) at Pin #16. Later vehicles have NO power supply at Pin #1.

So if you will provide your Last-7 VIN, or check "OBD II" in Text Search on your own ISTA installation for Pin #1 function on YOUR vehicle, that may offer some clues.

Also, loose/ corroded electrical connections may NOT transmit power after sitting unused for hours/days, UNTIL battery voltage ~ 12.5V is INCREASED to ~ 14.x Volts by attaching Battery Charger to Jumpstart Terminals. The additional voltage may be enough to trigger current flow in a previously "Open" circuit.
George

Hi George thanks for the reply, car is a 2013 model with a July 2013 production date so quite late in the model run.

Definitely no error codes logged when doing a scan in ISTA. Will try INPA as suggested to see if that shows any faults. I was hoping some faults would be logged to help pin point the issue!

Battery was changed in 2020 from what looks to be failure caused by water ingress according to receipts with the car.

Voltage on the battery posts in the boot area was 11.8V at the time of the issue, perhaps fitting a new battery would help and it could all be battery related?

Will try and get some more information as to what is working and what isn't next time the issue occurs.

[E93UK]

Originally Posted by loganmecham

Had a similar problem with my car with no start, it ended up being a low battery voltage from a bad battery. I'd try testing voltage with a multimeter and if it's low replace your battery. I've had to replace mine 4 times now in the last 3 years (Yes registered), so I don't recommend the OReileys SuperStart brand batteries (Not even sure what you'd have in the UK).

Good luck!

Battery was 11.8V at the time of the problem, not sure if this is low enough to cause an issue but might be worth changing then to see if it helps.

[loganmecham]

Originally Posted by E93UK

Hi George thanks for the reply, car is a 2013 model with a July 2013 production date so quite late in the model run.

Definitely no error codes logged when doing a scan in ISTA. Will try INPA as suggested to see if that shows any faults. I was hoping some faults would be logged to help pin point the issue!

Battery was changed in 2020 from what looks to be failure caused by water ingress according to receipts with the car.

Voltage on the battery posts in the boot area was 11.8V at the time of the issue, perhaps fitting a new battery would help and it could all be battery related?

Will try and get some more information as to what is working and what isn't next time the issue occurs.

When I had this problem occur to me, the battery was about 8 months old and the voltage read about 11.2V for comparison. E90s are hard on batteries!

Sounds like you need a new battery to me. Hopefully, that will fix all your problems, it certainly fixed mine.

[E93UK]

Happened again twice today so its definitely getting worse.

However have made some progress!

The first time it happened started to make a note of items that were powered and items that were not.

Systems were behaving like I hadn't put a key in. After around 30 seconds of trying different buttons and switches the dash came to life and everything started working. Perhaps a scan bringing the car to life was a red herring.

Went to get laptop to scan the car and again could not start ignition car with key in ignition.

Had a thought to try the spare key and it all worked fine.

Going back to the original key still doesn't work, this key seems to have stopped working in the car. Its non comfort access, remote unlock, lock and boot open buttons all work fine its like the car doesn't realise its in the key slot to start ignition.

Any ideas what could be going on, its the only key I've ever used in the past year, can the key be repaired or is it broken and beyond repair?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by E93UK

... Systems were behaving like I hadn't put a key in. After around 30 seconds of trying different buttons and switches the dash came to life and everything started working...Went to get laptop to scan the car and again could not start ignition car with key in ignition.

Had a thought to try the spare key and it all worked fine. Going back to the original key still doesn't work, this key seems to have stopped working in the car. Its non comfort access, remote unlock, lock and boot open buttons all work fine its like the car doesn't realise its in the key slot to start ignition.

That's NOT a commonly-reported issue. You could have thrown a LOT of parts, from battery on up, at that one, and NOT fixed the issue. There are still questions to be answered though.

My understanding of your post is that the "original" key (the one you had used primarily) still functions to unlock/lock the doors when buttons are pushed? If so, THAT function (battery-powered radio waves to Car Receiver) and CAS is working fine. However that leaves:

A) The "Chip" inside the Remote Key, that is supposed to be "recognized" by the Insert Compartment chip reader & CAS Module, and
B) Possible damage to, or change in, the dimensions of the "Original" key case, that prevent it from locking into the Insert Compartment.

I would suggest the following tests, using "spare" key 1st to see normal operation:
1) Slowly move "spare" key to the opening of Insert Compartment. The Radio should come on (CAS KLR active) when remote (with chip) is ~ 5mm from opening. Make sure radio On/Off button is ON. That is a test of chip recognition, with NO mechanical aspect of key or compartment involved. Repeat that test with "original" key and see if different result.

EDIT: that worked on mine a year or two ago when done. When I tested NOW, bringing Remote Key (NON-CA) near Insert Compartment does NOT activate Radio. NOT sure why the difference, but NOW radio does NOT come on until Remote "Clicks" into place.

2) Carefully inspect/compare the "Notches" in the "original" key with those in the "spare" key, and also examine the body of the remote key for any nicks, cracks or bulges. We're looking for anything that might be dimensionally different when key is inserted, or that might prevent "latching" into place.
a) Now slowly insert "spare" key into insert compartment as you listen/feel for the latches to "Click" and hold the key in position. That "Click" MUST occur before pressing START button will light Instrument Cluster.

b) Assuming "spare" works as it should, then repeat slow insertion of "original" key, and feel/listen for any difference. If NONE, pressing START button should NOW light Instrument Cluster and car should operate normally. If there was NO click, then there is a mechanical difference in the CASE of the two keys, or an issue with Insert Compartment & Latches.

If "original" key works intermittently, that will pose some challenges in HOW to diagnose the issue. INPA SHOULD connect to CAS, and display live data for some time (~ 10 minutes?) AFTER ignition is off. THAT may affect how the "original" key works or does NOT work.

I have NOT had any reason to use INPA for this, but there are multiple screens in CAS F5 Status that show MANY details of Remote Key being recognized by Insert Compartment, and locked in place. As example, there is:
INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F3 Status Internal > F4 Current Key Status

AFTER doing the tests above to determine if the issue appears to be chip recognition, or a mechnical issue with key locking in place, I would view that screen (and perhaps others) and compare readings between the two keys.

I would keep an open mind for the possibility that there may be OTHER causes (such as insert compartment issue, broken wire in ribbon cable carrying Hall Sensor signals to CAS, etc.). INPA provides ALL that data. Trying to correctly translate the German and understand what each data point actually IS can be the challenge.
George

[E93UK]

Thank you once again for a detailed reply George.

Will try your suggestions tomorrow and see what happens.

Have left the key on my toothbrush charger overnight, clutching at straws but wonder if its from low charge on the key.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by E93UK

... Have left the key on my toothbrush charger overnight, clutching at straws but wonder if its from
low charge on the key.

State of Charge of Remote Key Battery ONLY affects Remote Lock/Unlock buttons. Even if the battery were completely drained/
removed, the Chip does NOT require current from key battery for Insert Compartment "Chip Reader" to recognize key.

If you have time to view the attached INPA Screen, using BOTH Remote Keys and saving ScreenPrint with EACH, we might learn something.
Once again, the INPA Menu Sequence to view that screen:
INPA > CAS > F5 Status > F3 Status Internal > F4 Current Key Status
George

[E93UK]

As requested I have had a look with INPA how CAS screen reacts with the key insertions.

Hope this isn't too messy with all the pictures!

For reference on the INPA key labels, KEY 0 is the original key giving me the issues, KEY 1 is the spare working key.

Image 1 : KEY 0 after insert.
Image 2 : KEY 1 after insert.
Image 4 : KEY 1 tip in slot.
Image 5 : KEY 0 pop key to eject but only pull out 5mm.

It looks as if both keys lock in correctly but KEY 0 is having issues being acknowledged?

The tip of KEY 1 gets recognised with only the tip in the slot, KEY 0 wont do this.

Seem to have found a way to get KEY 0 working what seems like every time so far with the help of these screens. The key seems to sync and bring the car to life if it is pressed in to unlock and pulled out around 5mm. Push back in to lock and ignition remains on. EDIT I don't think the key slot is having any effect here, I think its more the vibration of moving the key causing it to start working.

Not ideal to live with but its pointing me towards KEY 0 being faulty.

Looking at £225 for a replacement key via BMW unless there are other options?

[sunday orie]

Does your car have comfort access as one of the build options? 322? If so try disconnecting the module in the boot on the right side in the boot lining cover and see if you get any difference in behavior. There are times when the CA module will try to disrupt the ignition circuit if it picks a probable short circuit or malfunction in one of the door handle electronics. Just try and see