[GnomeChild]

So my steering rack blew about a year or two back and I took the opportunity to upgrade to the M3 rack. I never planned on upgrading the steering rack but I'm glad I opted to at the time.

However, ever since installation I've noticed that at around 90% turn and until full-lock, I get a creak in the suspension turning either left or right, doesn't matter. I verified that I did the install correctly because L2L is equal turns and the car drives/tracks/aligns perfectly fine but I'm not sure what could be causing it. It wasn't binding on anything when I tested it before putting the car back on the ground and has been driving perfectly fine for 2 years now. I don't recall if the car was doing so before the install. The rack was from an e93 M3 that was crashed in the rear, so no front end damage.

It doesn't sound like anything in the steering rack though, kinda like "pinging" or "creaking" like my frame/subframe are flexing or something. Or maybe it is the steering rack, I have no clue. I have M3 control arms and M-Sport springs/suspension if that makes a difference.

[Jaronbwall]

GnomeChild Curious, have you modified or replaced the sway bars or tie rods? My 335i makes a similar noise and it's always my aftermarket sway bar. It's so stupid. The rubber mounts make noise when it's cold or after the car was jacked up. Even greased them up then read conflicting opinions on greasing sway bar mounts... lol
Did you replace the tie-rods? That's another failure point for the steering. When I replaced mine last summer the right side was smoked, left side was normal worn-ish. You can't tell honestly without removing these wear points and bending/testing them. The steering rack shouldn't be moving in any direction. Doubtful it's the rack.

[GnomeChild]

I have not, it's stock M-Sport bars and I was planning on upgrading to e93 M3 bars but as the car sits now, it is stock. I did have to have the subframe off when I did my oil pan gasket and my subframe was subsequently replaced because I noticed a few cracks in the welds. As far as front end modifications I haven't done anything else besides what's posted in the OP (M3 Control Arms, M3 Rack)

So you're saying it could be sway bar related though? Car doesn't do it at speed, but at a standstill/parking lot speed it will make the creaking sound

EDIT:
Tie Rods have been replaced yes, brand new when I did the M3 Rack

[Jaronbwall]

Does it make the creaking sound when jacked up with front tires off the ground? If not it can't be related to the steering rack. Based your response it's got to be something suspension related. Maybe something is loose. It could be the suspension top hat or sway bar end links. Really doubt it's the subframe. That's sketchy as hell if the subframe came loose.
I replaced my wife's front struts on her daily driver last year only to find out a sway bar end link was really loose the entire time. One hit with the impact gun tighten it up... after I worked on suspension for 5hrs. Pointless maintenance for the win!

[GnomeChild]

I haven't checked if the car makes the creaking off-load but I would assume not
If anything I will probably be under there again once I do my e93 M3 sway bar/servotronic retrofit and possibly again once I have an M3 bellypan so I guess I can see if anything is amiss then

[rbryantaz]

Originally Posted by GnomeChild

I haven't checked if the car makes the creaking off-load but I would assume not
If anything I will probably be under there again once I do my e93 M3 sway bar/servotronic retrofit and possibly again once I have an M3 bellypan so I guess I can see if anything is amiss then

Check ball joints, outer tie rods, sway bar links, and control arm bushings. One of those has usually been the problem on my cars.

Wheel bearings can also make strange noises but they tend to hum and wear out tires first in my experience.

If the rack is tight and not leaking and the tie rods are good then it probably isn't the rack. I haven't had an inner tie rod go bad but that is also possible.

-Rich

[GnomeChild]

I know it definitely can't be the M3 control arms, I got those brand new maybe 5k miles ago and tie rods maybe 2k miles on em. Only thing I can think of at this point is the sway bar so when I replace it I'll probably also buy new links for posterity

[Jaronbwall]

Originally Posted by GnomeChild

I know it definitely can't be the M3 control arms, I got those brand new maybe 5k miles ago and tie rods maybe 2k miles on em. Only thing I can think of at this point is the sway bar so when I replace it I'll probably also buy new links for posterity

Drove my car into work today. Sway bar creaked a few times over bumps. It's just the rubber mounts. I firmly believe it's your sway bar, sway end links, thrust arms, or another suspension component.

[whyzee125]

Did you replace your steering rack bolts? They are stretch bolts and will not have the same bite if they've been used before. Pretty common issue is for these to loosen up and cause some slight popping/creaking when under load which is your steering rack moving a microscopic amount on its mounts.

[GnomeChild]

Originally Posted by Jaronbwall

I firmly believe it's your sway bar, sway end links, thrust arms, or another suspension component.

Thrust arms were replaced to M3 ones alongside the M3 Control arms so it's gotta be sway bar or below
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Originally Posted by whyzee125

Did you replace your steering rack bolts? They are stretch bolts and will not have the same bite if they've been used before. Pretty common issue is for these to loosen up and cause some slight popping/creaking when under load which is your steering rack moving a microscopic amount on its mounts.

I did not know the Rack bolts were one-time-use. These are the bolts connecting the rack to the subframe, correct? I can try replacing those and going from there, probably get around to it when I do the e93 M3 sway bar/links

[whyzee125]

Originally Posted by GnomeChild

Thrust arms were replaced to M3 ones alongside the M3 Control arms so it's gotta be sway bar or below
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
I did not know the Rack bolts were one-time-use. These are the bolts connecting the rack to the subframe, correct? I can try replacing those and going from there, probably get around to it when I do the e93 M3 sway bar/links

Yup, give it a try. You could also try retorquing them as they have to be VERY tight but don't risk snapping them. That would be a massiva PIA

[GnomeChild]

I'll give it a shot

Now does anyone have the torque spec on them?

[Andy198712]

To me, pinging creeking is the top mounts not rotating nicely and your springs taking the stress.

Get someone to turn the wheel lock to lock while you look in the wheel well (if tyre clearance allows) and see if it rotates smoothly?!

[Suvorovo]

Originally Posted by GnomeChild

I'll give it a shot

Now does anyone have the torque spec on them?

PM me your vin, ill check in ista.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by GnomeChild

I know it definitely can't be the M3 control arms, I got those brand new maybe 5k miles ago and tie rods maybe 2k miles on em. Only thing I can think of at this point is the sway bar so when I replace it I'll probably also buy new links for posterity

Although it can be perfectly aligned m3 control arms aren’t 100% match with non M up-rights mounting tabs and the issue comes apparent when turning as angle change and could be amplified more when on lowering springs.

[GnomeChild]

Originally Posted by feuer

Although it can be perfectly aligned m3 control arms aren’t 100% match with non M up-rights mounting tabs and the issue comes apparent when turning as angle change and could be amplified more when on lowering springs.

Originally Posted by Andy198712

To me, pinging creeking is the top mounts not rotating nicely and your springs taking the stress.

So you guys think my M3 arms are causing stress on my top mounts? OEM top hats, no camber plates. I didn't have alignment pins so when I tossed on the M3 strut brace I also pushed the strut mounts as far inward as they could go for the free extra -0.1-0.2° camber. You guys think the camber is causing it?
Alignment sheet showed I have like -2.3° Driver's side and -1.5° Passenger side

[feuer]

Originally Posted by GnomeChild

So you guys think my M3 arms are causing stress on my top mounts? OEM top hats, no camber plates. I didn't have alignment pins so when I tossed on the M3 strut brace I also pushed the strut mounts as far inward as they could go for the free extra -0.1-0.2° camber. You guys think the camber is causing it?
Alignment sheet showed I have like -2.3° Driver's side and -1.5° Passenger side

That’s a huge difference side to side in camber, but to answer your question yes, go back non M arms and chances are that noise will go away. As I said the issue is only when turning. I think it’s actually the suspension going through excessive caster angle change do to non M up-right and m3 control arms not being 100% in compliance. You really need to dig through the suspension threads to find discussion on this. People usually don’t bother as the benefits of m3 control arms out weights the little annoyances like increase road noise, harshness, tire wear, and etc…

[GnomeChild]

I wanted to be sure so I dug looked through my old receipts and was able to find my most recent alignment sheets





The date is 11/25/21. I don't remember exactly why I had to get this alignment: it was either immediately after installing the M3 arms or immediately after I installed a new Style 193 in the passenger front after hitting a bad pothole that cracked my previous one. I think I already had M3 arms installed since I have the excessive front camber in both before and after alignment. I'm not really sure why the alignment guy adjusted my rear toe so aggressively: I think he was new and didn't really know what he was doing.



Then finally I think these are my most current specs. The date is 12/??/21 and I specifically remember because it was stormy that day and the wind ripped the paper right out of my hand and into the rain as I was walking to the car. I think this one was done immediately following the M3 Rack installation. Hopefully the washout and image hosting compression isn't that bad and it's still legible. Front camber seemed to have leveled out and in both instances I don't really know where my "insane" rear camber came from (Stock M-Sport suspension)


I guess not to thread-jack my own thread, I just found it interesting. I did not know M3 arms changed the dynamic caster angle that much. Going back to non-M arms is absolutely not an option so if it's in fact the arms it may just have to be something I will live with. It only happens during low/parking lot speed steering; during highway speeds where the steering changes are much more minute, there are no noises

I guess the next obvious question is if my M3 arms will cause excessive wear due to the strain on the other suspension components. If it's not a 100% compliant upgrade I assume it might but maybe the wear is so negligible that it doesn't matter. I guess I have a bit of digging to do in my future...

[GnomeChild]

I guess a video showing my issue exactly would probably be the best, right?

Curiously, in the video, the rack only did it near full lock going to the left, but did not make the noise to the right. It definitely sounds like it is coming from the left side of the car/suspension/strut area. No, I don't believe this is normal NVH increase from M3 arms; frankly I didn't notice any increase in NVH going M3 control arms

On a slightly related note, my car now officially has an email account



Ain't that some shit?

[whyzee125]

Have you taken apart your struts? My previous e90 had this issue and turned out to be the washers under the upper strut mount bearings were installed upside down. I have M3 control arms on my current e90 and zero such noises.

[GnomeChild]

I have not, no. The most I did with the strut is move them inboard a tad at the strut tower mount point but they are effectively untouched besides that

I called up my buddy who also has M3 arms on his e92 and he's also reported no such creaking. He has been a certified mechanic and Bimmer guy for 15 or so years now but even he wasn't able to diagnose what could be wrong just based on video alone. He said he doesn't think it's my rack but did not rule it out as a possibility and that my best bet is to just start working backwards from my mods and any supporting parts I replaced, even if brand new. Unfortunately I don't remember when or after what mod the sound started to manifest so it seems like I may just have to diagnose it myself the old fashioned way. This will also give me an opportunity to reinstall my thrust arms as I don't believe I tightened them under suspension load when I installed the M3 arms. Hopefully the weather clears for long enough soon for me to start messing with things again.

[GnomeChild]

Well... I don't know what the fuck I did but after being under the car for nearly 5 hours after work today, the rack sounds worse than it did before I started. My "creaking" is mostly gone but now I have a weird low pitch hum/rub sound at both L2L ends (left and right)

No, this thread is not just one elaborate shitpost to show off my new M3 Gauge cluster, it just so happened it came today and I wanted to test my new toy

Anyway, that's besides the point. All I did was tighten the shit out of the torx bolts on the rack and then loosen+tighten the M3 Thrust arm and Wishbone arms (but this time with load on the wheels during tightening)

Being that the noise seems pretty even side to side, I stand a little more convinced that maybe this could be the increased NVH mentioned before, but it doesn't explain why people (my buddy included) are reporting no NVH from the M3 arms

I'm not driving the 335i the rest of the week, also as a just in case something is catastrophically wrong. I have an appointment to take it to my buddy's garage on Saturday so maybe we can see exactly what he thinks about it once we've both had eyes and hands on it