[Red Bread]

All well and good, but then you're driving an appliance. Reliability is great, but a reliable turd is still a turd.

[Fundguy1]

And you can't spell turd without trd. For me reliability and resale are as important as trimming my toe hair. If there's no fun it's worthless.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

And you can't spell turd without trd. For me reliability and resale are as important as trimming my toe hair. If there's no fun it's worthless.

I understand. It really depends on your life style, my wife has long commute and she needs to drop-off and pick-up kids from day care. Last thing she wants to deal with is her car broken down, which will require a car rental, relocation of car seats and other kids stuff... etc. But if I would be looking for fun to drive vehicle I would never consider an SUV...

[Fundguy1]

Gotcha. A toy is a good grocery getter. I use mine on the beach, for towing, off road, and in snow. Toys don't work there. They are good minivan substitutes

[mikex25]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Power steering pump ducks on Lexus and toys. Did you ever try doing more than 2 or 3 consecutive right left turns? It dies and you get manual steering. Don't forget also they just completed the biggest recall to date almost tanking the company. Vw now may be bigger with the emissions software but toys was huge. Love my GC and never had an issue. 85k miles so far.

The power steering I can careless, I'm driving a SUV which I would never take it to a slalom course. Keep in mind I have a 2001 rx300 with over 200k miles and still running.

Please don't make false statements pertaining to Lexus as a company tanking, if you do please provide proof.

If you take a look at these sales figures, how can a company who's in the midst of tanking obtain such high sales figures?

[mikex25]

Very interesting for a supposedly tanking company?

[Fundguy1]

1 this was a couple years ago
2 the power steering pump.problem is on every toy.
3 they're overpriced
4 the only reason they sell is people forgot what a wretch is and rather pay through the nose for peace if mind.
5 their reliability is a myth compared to other makers just as performance is. What I mean is a new car from aby maker will be just as reliable as a new car was a few years ago from Toyota. Similarly, a new car will be as safe as a Volvo from a few years ago and a new car will perform better than the performance cars from a few years back. Everything advances. It's splitting hairs on reliability. With a Toyota your probably 98% reliable. But with a new whatever 96%? If the extra 2% is worth having subpar braking acceleration, and cornering then so be it but I don't see it.
6 as for the handling in an suv of course it matters. Accident avoidance. I'd much rather avoid the accident to begin with than be more reliable and if improved handling helps me avoid 10% of the accidents it's worth giving up 2% reliability.

BTW they lost 20% in sales on top of all the repairs they had to make. and at the time there was doubt.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kbrauer/...-more-than-gm/

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

1 this was a couple years ago
2 the power steering pump.problem is on every toy.
3 they're overpriced
4 the only reason they sell is people forgot what a wretch is and rather pay through the nose for peace if mind.
5 their reliability is a myth compared to other makers just as performance is. What I mean is a new car from aby maker will be just as reliable as a new car was a few years ago from Toyota. Similarly, a new car will be as safe as a Volvo from a few years ago and a new car will perform better than the performance cars from a few years back. Everything advances. It's splitting hairs on reliability. With a Toyota your probably 98% reliable. But with a new whatever 96%? If the extra 2% is worth having subpar braking acceleration, and cornering then so be it but I don't see it.
6 as for the handling in an suv of course it matters. Accident avoidance. I'd much rather avoid the accident to begin with than be more reliable and if improved handling helps me avoid 10% of the accidents it's worth giving up 2% reliability.

BTW they lost 20% in sales on top of all the repairs they had to make. and at the time there was doubt.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kbrauer/...-more-than-gm/

I'm not really sure what's up with all that hate for Toyota (hater gonna hate?), they do build really good machines, few great examples: Supra, LFA, Land Cruiser, FR-S (w/ subaru)... etc. All statements you listed above are pretty much nonsense. And I did test power steering on my wife's RX last night, it worked absolutely normal, nothing what you have described.

[Fundguy1]

Repeated hard turns at speed. Not a fan because
1 overpriced
2 underpowered
3 super low fun factor
4 smaller than rivals
5 hybrid leader
6 fake stuff like fake quad exhaust pipes on is-f.

That's about it. Camry is way down on the list vs rivals. That's their bread and butter. I like their small pickups and supra. LFA would be good if it was priced competitively with GTR but it's not. Just never sat in a toy or Lexus drivers seat and said I like this car.

[Alfisti]

People saying Jeep's are reliable and that Lexus' still drive like they did 10 years ago. That'll do me.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

People saying Jeep's are reliable and that Lexus' still drive like they did 10 years ago. That'll do me.

Go drive new IS350 or GS350 vs. F30 and F10, you will be really surprised. Some even say that new Caddy ATS and CTS drives even better, have heard them?

[Fundguy1]

Car and driver help? Highlander comes in 6th. They say its a camry stationwagon. First is durango. Sister to the GC and only used instead of GC because it has 3 rows. GC is better. Just test drive and see.
http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/to...w-specs-page-3

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Go drive new IS350 or GS350 vs. F30 and F10, you will be really surprised. Some even say that new Caddy ATS and CTS drives even better, have heard them?

You've misunderstood me, i am saying that lexus and Caddy have improved dramatically and BMW have wisely gone a touch softer.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

You've misunderstood me, i am saying that lexus and Caddy have improved dramatically and BMW have wisely gone a touch softer.

Gotcha, agree. BMW really need to fix their electric steering assist something they had right forever and stop introducing new FWD models like Active Tourer. Also they need to start working on real super car, even Lexus got one and the new Audi R8 is simply amazing.

[mikex25]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

1 this was a couple years ago
2 the power steering pump.problem is on every toy.
3 they're overpriced
4 the only reason they sell is people forgot what a wretch is and rather pay through the nose for peace if mind.
5 their reliability is a myth compared to other makers just as performance is. What I mean is a new car from aby maker will be just as reliable as a new car was a few years ago from Toyota. Similarly, a new car will be as safe as a Volvo from a few years ago and a new car will perform better than the performance cars from a few years back. Everything advances. It's splitting hairs on reliability. With a Toyota your probably 98% reliable. But with a new whatever 96%? If the extra 2% is worth having subpar braking acceleration, and cornering then so be it but I don't see it.
6 as for the handling in an suv of course it matters. Accident avoidance. I'd much rather avoid the accident to begin with than be more reliable and if improved handling helps me avoid 10% of the accidents it's worth giving up 2% reliability.

BTW they lost 20% in sales on top of all the repairs they had to make. and at the time there was doubt.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kbrauer/...-more-than-gm/

But to blatantly say a company is tanking because of this is false. How may recalls does your so Jeep have?

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...nths/73978022/

This article says otherwise with vw coming out on town and Toyota following a close second. Since we are talking about recalls let's blatantly say chrysler is tanking.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...d-know-n401046

Exploding gas tank recall omg Jeep is tanking
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chrysler...fety-concerns/

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by mikex25

But to blatantly say a company is tanking because of this is false. How may recalls does your so Jeep have?

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...nths/73978022/

This article says otherwise with vw coming out on town and Toyota following a close second. Since we are talking about recalls let's blatantly say chrysler is tanking.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...d-know-n401046

Exploding gas tank recall omg Jeep is tanking
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chrysler...fety-concerns/

Yes, he is definitely not a financier, even after 09-11 recall campaigns Toyota reported a quarterly profit of $2.2 billion, you can read it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_670045.html

[mikex25]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Yes, he is definitely not a financier, even after 09-11 recall campaigns Toyota reported a quarterly profit of $2.2 billion, you can read it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_670045.html

Exactly my point, he is attacking Toyota based on its recall but Chrysler is notorious for that.

Everyone knows Toyota is one of the most profitable auto maker in the world and yes they are a bit boring to drive but you can't knock their reliability.

[Fundguy1]

Nope. Just 20 yrs in the financial industry. Tanking was to harsh. Image as reliable stained and sales hurt and still suffering relatively yes. Now the camry that was always at the top of the best pick list is 8th on most lists. Big drop. The highlander and sequoia as well as the ex and gx have always sucked. No off road capabilities, smaller, slower, they're just tall minivans. Course that's all soccer mom's want. But for the price they lag in every way except fuel economy and slightly higher reliability. Not worth a look.

[Fundguy1]

You can knock the reliability if it's the last thing you care about behind driving experience, performance, cost, luxury, etc. If it has a warranty who cares and like I said earlier, all cars progress. Reliability is better in a new Chrysler than an older Toyota when it was new. Who f-ING cares I'd you have a 1% higher chance of breaking down and you're covered by warranty if you have to pay more and endure years of boring mindless puttering.

[Fundguy1]

Here's another.
http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/to...w-specs-page-3

Guess people to actually rethink loving toyota is like getting an iPhone person to try a Droid or Democrat to admit Obama is a failure. Just not worth wasting the time. But again, don't believe me? Do a back to back comparison drive of a GC and a highlander or an accord and a camry and then reply.

[Sedoy]

Dude, what are you talking about, I showed you two articles where Lexus was on the top beating Germans including BMW. BTW, according to JD Power, Lexus about twice more reliable than say Jeep, where do you see 1%? If you are really care about driving pleasure you really need to open up your mind and appreciate recent improvements from companies like Lexus, Caddy (ATS, CTS), Chevy (new Corvette, Camaro), Ford (new Mustang)... etc.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

You can knock the reliability if it's the last thing you care about behind driving experience, performance, cost, luxury, etc. If it has a warranty who cares and like I said earlier, all cars progress. Reliability is better in a new Chrysler than an older Toyota when it was new. Who f-ING cares I'd you have a 1% higher chance of breaking down and you're covered by warranty if you have to pay more and endure years of boring mindless puttering.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Dude, what are you talking about, I showed you two articles where Lexus was on the top beating Germans including BMW. BTW, according to JD Power, Lexus about twice more reliable than say Jeep, where do you see 1%? If you are really care about driving pleasure you really need to open up your mind and appreciate recent improvements from companies like Lexus, Caddy (ATS, CTS), Chevy (new Corvette, Camaro), Ford (new Mustang)... etc.

I'm saying 1% because the bottom of the list isn't 0% reliable. It may be more, but not by a wide margin. Only a few % separate the top from the bottom these days. It's really a meaningless Stat.