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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Testing N54 starter with everything in place?



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      09-22-2016, 05:17 PM   #1
scorp508
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Question Testing N54 starter with everything in place?

Is it possible to test the starter w/o removing the intake manifold on a 2007 N54? My 335xi decided to no-start last night while in a parking lot at a local store. I thought it was just a dead battery as the window on the BMW battery was black rather than green and after a while connected to a running vehicle w/jumper cables it started again. Oddly however the headlights didn't dim at all when trying to start last night which may have been a clue there was more going on.

I replaced the battery today as I think at least one cell was dead due to the inspection window being black. While all of the electronics come on and I can move the gear selector there is no clicking from the starter at all when trying to start. There is a general hum (fuel pump?) for a couple seconds and that is all.

I'm hoping I can get a multimeter on the starter to see if power is being sent to it or if I am hitting some other kind of ignition interrupt. Or the hammer test.

Thanks in advance.
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      09-23-2016, 03:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp508 View Post
Is it possible to test the starter w/o removing the intake manifold on a 2007 N54? My 335xi decided to no-start last night while in a parking lot at a local store. I thought it was just a dead battery as the window on the BMW battery was black rather than green and after a while connected to a running vehicle w/jumper cables it started again. Oddly however the headlights didn't dim at all when trying to start last night which may have been a clue there was more going on.

I replaced the battery today as I think at least one cell was dead due to the inspection window being black. While all of the electronics come on and I can move the gear selector there is no clicking from the starter at all when trying to start. There is a general hum (fuel pump?) for a couple seconds and that is all.

I'm hoping I can get a multimeter on the starter to see if power is being sent to it or if I am hitting some other kind of ignition interrupt. Or the hammer test.

Thanks in advance.

Before you get started, disconnect/bypass the IBS system on top of the battery in the trunk and see if that solves your problem. These can go screwy and cause a no power to the starter situation. I forget the specifics, but you can Google or search the forums to figure out how to bypass IBS.
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      09-24-2016, 06:45 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by scorp508 View Post
Or the hammer test.
This.

Get someone to give it love taps with a stick while cranking to see if that makes a difference.
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      09-24-2016, 01:19 PM   #4
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Thanks for the IBS system tip. I found the wire and disconnected it but sadly it made no difference. It was quieter outside today while trying to start the car. I think I hear the starter plunger clicking out into place on some start attempts yet nothing else happens. On some attempts I don't hear the plunger at all. I have to travel for work soon so it'll be a week before I can mess with it again.
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      10-11-2016, 12:45 PM   #5
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I'm not sure if I should consider myself lucky or not.

I purchased a new (remanufactured Bosch) starter, bolts, intake gaskets, and went to work this past Saturday tearing things down. I got to the point where I was ready to pull the starter, but then decided to put the remote starter switch on and see what happens.

When pressing the button on the remote switch the plunger would come out, but the starter motor itself would not turn over. I tried a few times, same result each time, however on my final try I heard an electrical crackling noise coming from somewhere else. I looked down and saw a small puff of grey smoke coming from down in the engine bay. Further investigation found it was coming from where the ground strap connects to the left engine mount. Interesting. I decided to remove the ground strap and clean the ends of it and the spots on the car where it connects.

Upon removal of the ground strap I found the center of the strap entirely frayed, discolored, and the whole thing could have been pulled apart with gentle force had I tried to. I'm going to guess they could be the original cause of my starter issue. I'm only 200 miles shy of 100k miles so I'll still go ahead and replace the starter at the same time.

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      10-11-2016, 01:53 PM   #6
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Yeah that's your problem for sure, it's usually a ground issue or solenoid/actuator when it comes to starters it seems.
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      10-17-2016, 11:24 AM   #7
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For anyone curious a shot of the new ground strap ($48) is below. I cleaned the mounting positions for good measure even though they were in good shape and spread a very light coating of dielectric grease on them. With only the new strap in place the original starter was able to turn over. Regardless I installed the reman Bosch unit and buttoned it all up given I'm just shy of 100k miles it was good insurance.

The left side is what connects up at the engine mount and the right connects down below to the frame.
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      10-17-2016, 12:19 PM   #8
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This is awesome info!

I'm sure it will help members in the future, so thanks for sharing pics & info
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      10-17-2016, 10:19 PM   #9
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Little nuggets like this thread are what keep me coming back here. Great info and thank you for sharing!
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      10-19-2016, 01:42 PM   #10
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You're welcome. I do hope it helps someone else in the future.
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      10-19-2016, 05:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
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You're welcome. I do hope it helps someone else in the future.
Kudos to you for coming back and sharing what you've found... Inevitably, someone will show up with this same problem and you will have helped them immensely!

I'm logging out of the mobile e90post as we speak, to sign back in on desktop mode so I can give you an appreciation/respect nod/point!

#E90postFTW!
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      10-20-2016, 10:33 AM   #12
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I'd put grease on that whole thing looking at how it corroded the first time. It'll happen again eventually.
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      10-20-2016, 10:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by GaryR13G View Post
I'd put grease on that whole thing looking at how it corroded the first time. It'll happen again eventually.
That, or just replace it with a thick sheathed battery cable; I imagine that would work just as well.
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      10-20-2016, 12:19 PM   #14
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That, or just replace it with a thick sheathed battery cable; I imagine that would work just as well.
Yeah, if you return the $40 piece of metal BMW just handed you.
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      10-23-2016, 03:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryR13G View Post
Yeah, if you return the $40 piece of metal BMW just handed you.

Meh.. it didn't bother me. I had plenty of material and ends to make my own but with limited time to work on it with a busier than usual schedule a pre-made was just fine.
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      01-09-2020, 06:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp508 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryR13G View Post
Yeah, if you return the $40 piece of metal BMW just handed you.

Meh.. it didn't bother me. I had plenty of material and ends to make my own but with limited time to work on it with a busier than usual schedule a pre-made was just fine.
Do you access the ground strap from above or below? Is it necessary to remove the intake manifold, or any intake pipes if you have dci installed? Going to be replacing this soon but not sure where it's located and how to best access.
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      01-13-2020, 01:50 AM   #17
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From below, get the splash guard off and you will see it just next to the driver side engine mount... 10mins max to get it replaced
I used just a generic replacement, works fine... prior to this the engine would crank with hickups, slowly and sometimes on a second try...
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Last edited by streetpro; 01-13-2020 at 01:52 AM.. Reason: added pic
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      01-13-2020, 01:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetpro View Post
From below, get the splash guard off and you will see it just next to the driver side engine mount... 10mins max to get it replaced
I used just a generic replacement, works fine... prior to this the engine would crank with hickups, slowly and sometimes on a second try...
where did you buy your generic replacement from, and what was the length you used? just curious?
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      01-14-2020, 02:35 AM   #19
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I am not certain about dimensions, I think it was 50mm2 and 300mm length, from an ebay seller.
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      01-14-2020, 09:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makoa6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetpro View Post
From below, get the splash guard off and you will see it just next to the driver side engine mount... 10mins max to get it replaced
I used just a generic replacement, works fine... prior to this the engine would crank with hickups, slowly and sometimes on a second try...
where did you buy your generic replacement from, and what was the length you used? just curious?
why not just buy one from the dealer? can't be that much.
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      01-15-2020, 04:47 PM   #21
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why not just buy one from the dealer? can't be that much.
was thinking about getting a better one than the dealer. Meaning like a shielded ground cable so it doesn't get corroded.
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      03-06-2020, 10:59 PM   #22
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For everyone wondering, yes you can do a lot of checks with the starter still mounted. If you have a light click when you try to start but no crank, this is most likely the starter solenoid. This verifies everything CAS-wise is happy.

Has the junction box battery positive recall been done? You can pull off the passenger front footwell cover and look for a fat red cable. Is it hot? Warm? Discoloured? Try jiggling it then cranking. Get this sorted ASAP.

Firstly check that your battery is still good (voltage ok at the battery itself, at the jump start terminal and also at the alternator). By checking at the alternator you are also doing a (very) basic integrity check of the starter lead which connects the jumpstart terminal to the starter to the alternator. Be sure to also inspect the crimped eyelet under the 13mm nut at the jump start point as it is known to corrode/dry rot and snap or fall out.

Make sure the car is in neutral/park and park brake on.

Remove the microfilter housing and gutter, remove the engine cover. Look into the gap between cyl 5 and 6 runners of the intake manifold and you'll see a copper cable and the battery positive connection to the starter. This is where you want to bridge to verify a stuck starter as it will supply battery power direct to the motor. Through this gap, it is a straight down shot at the copper cable with minimal risk of accidentally striking the housing or a grounded component.

To get you home, have an assistant attempt to start the engine while you strike the starter motor with a long 1/2" extension and hammer. You should be able to get a direct shot at it through the gaps of the manifold.
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