[mckacdc]

To start, I have the M-series control arms swapped into my '07 335i.

The 1st couple alignments I got, the camber was locked in at -1.1* on both sides.

Recently I hit a bad bump where old pavement meets new, and car started to pull to the right. I took it in today for an alignment. I didn't look at the numbers really until I got home right now. Now it says -1.0* for the left and -1.2* for the right.

Could I have bent something?


Also, idk if it means anything, but the caster is off on the left. Went from 7.4* to 7.6*. Right side is the same (7.1*).

[fravel]

Those are some pretty tiny variances, could very well just be within the tolerance range of the machines that are measuring the alignment. Camber/caster aren't adjustable on the front of our cars anyways, so it's not like you can have the alignment adjust something to change it back. I wouldn't worry about it.

Although, the M-control arms should have added some camber. Did the camber setting change from before->after you swapped them?

[CJ421]

It's normal for there to be some variance. I'd say there would be cause for concern (or a second alignment) if the difference is greater than 0.5 deg. but 0.2 deg. is practically nothing. You're fine.

[mckacdc]

I never had it aligned before I swapped them, so no idea what the camber was before.

I know the camber/caster aren't adjustable, that's why I'm worried about it after I hit that crap on the road. Thought something might have be bent now.

The alignment today and the previous one were at the same place about 5 months apart, so it should have read the same.

Originally Posted by fravel

Camber/caster aren't adjustable on the front of our cars anyways,

Umm, aside from knocking out the pin, you mean. Once that is removed, I'm sure OP can target equal camber left and right.

[David1]

If the thrust arm got torqued, I mean pulled from the impact, it can effect castor. You will not see a bend in it from it's design. I had bent one of my thrust arms, swapped it and castor went right back where it had been. Just tying the car down by the thrust arms bends them. What are the rear readings? Lots of stuff going on back there to make the car feel like it has a pull.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Umm, aside from knocking out the pin, you mean. Once that is removed, I'm sure OP can target equal camber left and right.

Well, yeah, but I don't really consider that "adjustable". You could pull the pins and bury the strut mount bolts to one side for max camber, but I don't imagine it'd be all that easy to fine tune just from that since you'd have to jack the car up every time you wanted to change where it was set and even then you have to good way to make minute adjustments besides tapping the strut very slightly.

Originally Posted by fravel

Well, yeah, but I don't really consider that "adjustable". You could pull the pins and bury the strut mount bolts to one side for max camber, but I don't imagine it'd be all that easy to fine tune just from that since you'd have to jack the car up every time you wanted to change where it was set and even then you have to good way to make minute adjustments besides tapping the strut very slightly.

The whole point of removing the pins is to make it "adjustable" when the alignment (in the fixed position) is either out of range or results can't be duplicated from one side to the other. Whether someone decides to "bury the struts to one side for max camber" is besides the point.

lol welcome to the world of aligning a MacPherson strut setup. I'd imagine that "jacking the car up to make adjustments" is necessary in most all cases; whether you pull the pin, have adjustable camber/caster plates, etc. you still have to get the weight off that corner to make the adjustment. That's why alignment racks have separate independent jacks for both the front and rear "axles."

[fravel]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

The whole point of removing the pins is to make it "adjustable" when the alignment (in the fixed position) is either out of range or results can't be duplicated from one side to the other. Whether someone decides to "bury the struts to one side for max camber" is besides the point.

Well that's news to me, as every other time I've heard to people pulling the pins it was just to squeeze out that little extra bit of camber that the factory allows without having to buy camber plates. If the factory fixed position is so far out that it needs "adjusted" you've got bigger problems than a couple degrees of camber.

And yes, obviously you have to unload the corners to make an adjustment. I was more alluding to the fact that you will spend a fortune in labor hours to have a technician "adjust" anything in this manner because there's no repeatibility. Jack the car up, tap the strut to one side, tighten, check... ohh went to far. Jack car up, tap strut to the other side, tighten, check... damn, not enough. Jack car up, tap strut some more. Without some way of metering the changes you make while the car is in the air the entire process is a crapshoot.

Originally Posted by fravel

Well that's news to me, as every other time I've heard to people pulling the pins it was just to squeeze out that little extra bit of camber that the factory allows without having to buy camber plates. If the factory fixed position is so far out that it needs "adjusted" you've got bigger problems than a couple degrees of camber.

Not every car that rolls off the assembly line is exactly the same as the last. When all those parts come together, tolerances can be off. For that reason, adjustments can be made in either direction, hence the existing slots on the shock tower itself. BMW didn't leave that option in there just for people that wanted to mod their car

Furthermore, while working for Audi, Lexus, Acura, etc. I noticed that some cars would be strapped down so tight on the delivery trucks before reaching the dealership that the alignment would get thrown out of range because of it (as already alluded to by David1).

[fravel]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Not every car that rolls off the assembly line is exactly the same as the last. When all those parts come together, tolerances can be off. For that reason, adjustments can be made in either direction, hence the existing slots on the shock tower itself. BMW didn't leave that option in there just for people that wanted to mod their car

Ummm... if the tolerances are out then the product is non-conforming and should be thrown out by QC checks. As far as BMW is concerned, camber/caster aren't adjustable on our cars - on a new, undamaged car the entire range of those slots in the shock tower should be within the acceptable alignment tolerances. If not, then something isn't conforming. The alignment pin just makes assembly that much more efficient.

If BMW intended for it to be adjustable to the level that you are suggesting then they would have included a reliable, repeatable way to adjust it.

I don't mean to argue, but I'm trying to save the OP some confusion. If he goes to a shop and asks to have them adjusted the shop is just going to look at him like he is speaking Chinese.

Originally Posted by fravel

If BMW intended for it to be adjustable to the level that you are suggesting then they would have included a reliable, repeatable way to adjust it.

I don't mean to argue, but I'm trying to save the OP some confusion. If he goes to a shop and asks to have them adjusted the shop is just going to look at him like he is speaking Chinese.I don't mean to argue, but I'm trying to save the OP some confusion. If he goes to a shop and asks to have them adjusted the shop is just going to look at him like he is speaking Chinese.

It's all good dude...nothing wrong with a healthy discussion.

Can you name a couple other factory equipped MacPherson strut based vehicles that have a more reliable/repeatable method of adjusting camber? I am genuinely interested in how the process is made easier on other platforms when compared to BMW intentions, etc. Aside from adjustments made at the strut tower, or at the bottom of the strut using similar slotted attachment points, or crash bolts, etc. I can't think of any other way a manufacturer could make the adjustment process more precise. At the end of the day (with regards to removing the strut pins) I'm just glad the option is there for the times when it can be used appropriately.

As far as OP is concerned, that's my exact point....tell the shop to knock out the pins in order to get the alignment equal on both sides for camber. The available adjustment range should be more than enough to get him squared away. If that doesn't work then look elsewhere for bent/worn parts or find a new shop that actually knows what they are doing.

[shadow191]

Hitting a bump can cause your camber to go out and your car to pull. But as others have said, that tiny change shouldn't have done it and you're well within the OEM spec. I once hit a pothole hard enough that my camber went from -1 to -1.9 and it still didn't pull. I only figured it out because my toe was way out as well and it ate up a tire.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Can you name a couple other factory equipped MacPherson strut based vehicles that have a more reliable/repeatable method of adjusting camber? I am genuinely interested in how the process is made easier on other platforms when compared to BMW intentions, etc. Aside from adjustments made at the strut tower, or at the bottom of the strut using similar slotted attachment points, or crash bolts, etc. I can't think of any other way a manufacturer could make the adjustment process more precise. At the end of the day (with regards to removing the strut pins) I'm just glad the option is there for the times when it can be used appropriately.

Factory setups? No. I'm thinking of the scales that are included on camber plates like the picture below.



By counting the marks, you can tell exactly what you've adjusted and how far you've adjusted it. The slots in the factory shock tower don't have anything like this and it would be pretty simple to implement. Even if the marks/spacing don't actually mean anything and are just for reference, it would still serve the same purpose.

Originally Posted by fravel

By counting the marks, you can tell exactly what you've adjusted and how far you've adjusted it. The slots in the factory shock tower don't have anything like this and it would be pretty simple to implement. Even if the marks/spacing don't actually mean anything and are just for reference, it would still serve the same purpose.

Agreed, but you'd still have to know where you are starting from. As an example, let's say the OP were to install camber plates and leave them in the default position. Even if the same number of hash marks are adjusted L/R you'd still be off by -0.2 from one side to another. Your "bump it a little bit/check/go back and bump it a little more/etc." method would still have to be used to an extent in order to equalize both front corners; at least initially because as you mentioned, the marks/spacing don't actually mean anything.

If the baseline was equal, you'd still have a margin of error once adjustments were made, locked down, and the car was bounced/rolled/etc. to get it to settle though. You'd effectively be starting with a new baseline all over again. Marks could just as easily be used on the factory shock tower, but with such little adjustment range it's almost not even worth it.

But sure, setting street and track alignment marks on the plates themselves make it easy to go from one setting to another on the fly and get relatively close to the original validated baseline without necessarily "requiring" an alignment. The same concept is used on cars that can benefit from the use of crash bolts in their setup as well.