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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > VK Motorwerks and American/China Made...so what



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      09-24-2009, 06:23 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Pics as requested earlier. Taken on our fab bench, before final prep for shipment, so ignore the dust/fingerprints please
I am not an expert but Nice welds, looks like a good product. Please sell on the merits - its worthwhile to yours and everyone's benefit.
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      09-24-2009, 06:24 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
I am not an expert but Nice welds, looks like a good product. Please sell on the merits - its worthwhile to yours and everyone's benefit.
Thank you! We are not here to "bash" on anyone, but since we have been attacked quite a bit, I have no choice but to defend our products.
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      09-24-2009, 06:27 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Thank you! We are not here to "bash" on anyone, but since we have been attacked quite a bit, I have no choice but to defend our products.
Nothing wrong in defending , but defend your products by not offending others offerring . I know its hard ...that's what business is ..sometimes there are better ways to sell without negativity. Example ...I havent seen one vendor go after VK in the FMIC dept...Including ETS...they dealt it like a gentleman. Showcase your special skills alone ...you will go a long way.
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      09-24-2009, 06:27 PM   #136
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Looks wise, AR has VK beat so far imo.
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      09-24-2009, 06:31 PM   #137
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Vbmw335 with all due respect sir. Yes Vince isn't saying verbatim that his product is better but when someone says their product is of the same quality, at half the price that is essentially saying I've go the better deal going on here.

As far as you trying o reflect my question I think the word "best" is pretty universal in the sense that which product is of better quality, welds, and on and on. I don know all the work that goes into making a downpipe so I can't say much more.

Here's an example if I had a brownie and it cost 1.00 and you had a brownie that you claimed was basically the same as mine but I cost .50. Wouldn't anyone with a 3lb brain say to themselves "It seems the .50 product is a better deal."

the variable in this little parable is if the products are truly relatively the same in every aspect of I being made and the materials used.
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      09-24-2009, 06:31 PM   #138
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I don't ever remember vince making direct comments towards ar's price. He stated from the beginning that he would not up charge pipes like other companies do he never stated a particular company. Also these are 2.5" pipes not 3" vince stated in the first gb thread that these would have around the same gains as other dp's and even noted that they might produce a little less but in the end its a negligable amount. Ar you guys have a very nice product and I think it is at a reasonable price point at 500 its just up to the consumer if they would rather have 3" or 2.5" pipes.
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      09-24-2009, 06:35 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
Nothing wrong in defending , but defend your products by not offending others offerring . I know its hard ...that's what business is ..sometimes there are better ways to sell without negativity. Example ...I havent seen one vendor go after VK in the FMIC dept...Including ETS...they dealt it like a gentleman. Showcase your special skills alone ...you will go a long way.
I didnt really feel I was "offending" anyone elses offering in this thread. Michael @ ETS is certainly a class act - and for what its worth, I think using test data from an old core you are no longer using is shady at best - I would be *very* unhappy if I were Michael. I admittedly am not a speech major/eloquent Obama style orator. Most people that know me know I am very laid back, but speak my mind and tend to be rather blunt, so I apologize if that offends anybody.
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      09-24-2009, 06:36 PM   #140
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All I know is if AR truley knew Vince had their number Andre wouldn't be calling him out and admit him to kindly back up his claims.
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      09-24-2009, 06:38 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusFrEAk View Post
Vbmw335 with all due respect sir. Yes Vince isn't saying verbatim that his product is better but when someone says their product is of the same quality, at half the price that is essentially saying I've go the better deal going on here.

As far as you trying o reflect my question I think the word "best" is pretty universal in the sense that which product is of better quality, welds, and on and on. I don know all the work that goes into making a downpipe so I can't say much more.

Here's an example if I had a brownie and it cost 1.00 and you had a brownie that you claimed was basically the same as mine but I cost .50. Wouldn't anyone with a 3lb brain say to themselves "It seems the .50 product is a better deal."

the variable in this little parable is if the products are truly relatively the same in every aspect of I being made and the materials used.
Vince has also made it clear that if these have issues they are warrantied for lifetime to the original owner...what more can a vendor do?? How much more risk can he take? So the customer is covered regardless of VK or AR. It now comes to price.

We can debate this all day...but end of the day ..this is a very price sensitive market unlike Porsche or Ferrari ( as far as i can tell). So some people will buy a 300 dp's no matter what as long as it does the job.

Yes the quality might be better ...but what does that translate into real world use? Its not a museum piece which won a welding competetion. X lasts more years than Y , X passes salt spray test compared to Y at certain perf metrics , X can withstand certain stress in certain driving condition...

The list goes on..too many variables can affect the performance...bottomline ...the differences can be negligible to some.

I know my spelling sucks ...damn MS word spell check!
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      09-24-2009, 06:53 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I didnt really feel I was "offending" anyone elses offering in this thread. Michael @ ETS is certainly a class act - and for what its worth, I think using test data from an old core you are no longer using is shady at best - I would be *very* unhappy if I were Michael. I admittedly am not a speech major/eloquent Obama style orator. Most people that know me know I am very laid back, but speak my mind and tend to be rather blunt, so I apologize if that offends anybody.
No one needs to apologize to anyone when stating opinions on these online forums, simply minding your own business and selling on the merits of your products merits alone is great.

You know very well...we can talk all day ...VK and AR has their own customer base. Good Luck ! I am out of here...long day. I am racing an SL65 Renntech tuned AMG car with my 996 Tuned Turbo... cant wait to see the outcome tonight....i know i dont want to see his taillights..
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      09-24-2009, 07:01 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by bimmerboy View Post
Vince, don't let these vendors get to you.. The fact is, you are the peoples champ for making some nice ass downpipes for only $300, and for that as well as your FMIC, the N54 community is thankful.

I agree, parts were very overpriced in the beginning, and now that you are getting some of the market share with your products, they will be forced to compete by dropping their prices. In the end, competition is always a good thing.

my $.02
Well said, people are so full shit saying their profit margin is minimal at the prices they are charging. Minimal to who?
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      09-24-2009, 07:08 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbmw335 View Post
No one needs to apologize to anyone when stating opinions on these online forums, simply minding your own business and selling on the merits of your products merits alone is great.

You know very well...we can talk all day ...VK and AR has their own customer base. Good Luck ! I am out of here...long day. I am racing an SL65 Renntech tuned AMG car with my 996 Tuned Turbo... cant wait to see the outcome tonight....i know i dont want to see his taillights..
Good luck! Those TT V12 motors are NASTY, but the cars weigh somewhere around 18,000lbs.....bone dry.
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      09-24-2009, 07:09 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by easy2speed View Post
I know you were joking, but I actually went to Houston this March for the Supra TX2K9 and I was unimpressed with the amount of exotic cars I saw. I see more exotics in Alabama.
Cmon dude. seriosly.?? saying that Alabama has more of anything than houston is just ridiculous. No offense but a supra is hardly an exotic and people who own exotics dont go to supra meets. Theres plenty of exotics here. go to river oaks and galleria but theyre just rich bastards that drive them cuz they can. The only meet they go to is the Cigar meet to take home a 20 yr old hot blonde to bang later. No offense but Alabama is definitely not the wealthiest state.

GL with your car sales.
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      09-24-2009, 07:17 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Pics as requested earlier. Taken on our fab bench, before final prep for shipment, so ignore the dust/fingerprints please
ok those are some pretty damn nice pipes - not gonna lie...
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      09-24-2009, 07:22 PM   #147
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ok those are some pretty damn nice pipes - not gonna lie...
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      09-24-2009, 07:27 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
you should think about putting those pics on your website so your product is fairly represented.... cause those old prototype pics make your pipes look like junk...
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      09-24-2009, 07:28 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by mwahlert View Post
you should think about putting those pics on your website so your product is fairly represented.... cause those old prototype pics make your pipes look like junk...
Agreed. I am WAY behind on website updating.
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      09-24-2009, 07:58 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roozie2001 View Post
Cmon dude. seriosly.?? saying that Alabama has more of anything than houston is just ridiculous. No offense but a supra is hardly an exotic and people who own exotics dont go to supra meets. Theres plenty of exotics here. go to river oaks and galleria but theyre just rich bastards that drive them cuz they can. The only meet they go to is the Cigar meet to take home a 20 yr old hot blonde to bang later. No offense but Alabama is definitely not the wealthiest state.

GL with your car sales.

I went to many different areas, and I was just telling what I saw. There is undoubtedly more exotics in Houston, but our city has more exotics per person I bet.
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      09-24-2009, 09:00 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Good luck! Those TT V12 motors are NASTY, but the cars weigh somewhere around 18,000lbs.....bone dry.
haha..those things are pretty heavy..but the amounts of torque they put out is something else..
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      09-24-2009, 09:43 PM   #152
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WOW. That's all I can say...

I had a great deal of respect for AR and thought their downpipes had one of the best designs out on the market...

It was between AR, CP-E, and VK to replace my RR downpipes I sold from when I was sponsored by them. The way that Andrew has presented himself and AR Designs in this thread has crossed them off of the list for my next set of catless downpipes. His comments were downright disrespectful, and made him look like somebody desperate to stir a bad image of VK because he can't compete with them. You should be ashamed of yourself andrew, and apologize for your threadcrapping and poor attempt to create a false reputation of VK's products.

I'm leaning towards CP-E right now, but if VK performs as well as it looks, I'll be in on the next GB.
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      09-24-2009, 09:45 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by rcracer_tx View Post
WOW. That's all I can say...

I had a great deal of respect for AR and thought their downpipes had one of the best designs out on the market...

It was between AR, CP-E, and VK to replace my RR downpipes I sold from when I was sponsored by them. The way that Andrew has presented himself and AR Designs in this thread has crossed them off of the list for my next set of catless downpipes. His comments were downright disrespectful, and made him look like somebody desperate to stir a bad image of VK because he can't compete with them. You should be ashamed of yourself andrew, and apologize for your threadcrapping and poor attempt to create a false reputation of VK's products.

I'm leaning towards CP-E right now, but if VK performs as well as it looks, I'll be in on the next GB.
Sorry, where do you see me being disrespectful? Where am I creating a false reputation? The only false claims that have been made were against ME. Might want to read the thread before commenting.
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      09-24-2009, 09:46 PM   #154
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people lets just stop bashing on andrew he seems like a good guy that is doing a lot for this community i do not know him personally but he seems like a good respectable guy who is just asking for facts to back things up and im sure vince has those facts so nobody needs to be upset here good luck to both of you I hope you both make good money!
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