[sirbikesalot]

You no longer need to remove the ecu. There is a newer option that is supposed to give you the best of both worlds. Rather than having to remove the ecu and reflash with the new map, companies such as ETG (ecu tuning group https://www.facebook.com/pages/ECU-T...32907553487475 ), use the same chip as the ecu with the modified program, and place it in a box, then using a wire harness connect it to the fuel rail pressure sensor, boost pressure sensor, and engine rpm. That way you get the benefit of an engineered flash with the ability to remove it if you need to, so it is completely undetectable. They can flash too if you still prefer that option.

The ETG box is what I use now. That said, the drawbacks include still not giving an accurate mpg. It reads too high, because the original ecu is still thinking a certain amount of fuel is being delivered when it has been modified by the box ... no difference from any run-of-the-mill tuning box. The other issue is the settings. There is an adjustable pot on the box (the box is sealed and you cannot open it) that goes from 0 to 9. Good luck trying to run it at 9. ymmv, but in my case I cannot run it beyond 6, and even at 6 I get CELs once in a while (like when the engine has not fully warmed up and I gun it). So I run it at 5, which really hurts the value proposition of the whole thing. Minor hp and torque, for major $$$.

I used to run the DTUK CRD-T box. Compared to the tune setting I have to use now, the DTUK box had more low-end torque, whereas I still have turbo lag with the tune. I want to try the DTUK box again, but I took it out because I started worrying about a couple of things.

The first was putting more load on the DPF. I monitor my DPF regens, and plot them on an excel chart. That way I can tell if the frequency of regens is increasing on average over time. They started to do this with the DTUK. When I got the ETG box, they went back to where they were before and have remained fairly level.

The other issue that was more concerning to me with the DTUK is the increase in fuel rail pressure. The box is simply raising the pressure, forcing more fuel through the injector. The injector is designed to run at very high pressure (~29ksi), but if you increase this further you run the risk of going out of spec or running it close to the spec limit, leading to increased wear and tear and even damage to your injectors and pump. This is a big risk because these things are very expensive to replace. This is why you get the CEL. Then computer is telling you that there is too much fuel going through it. The right way to do it is with a tune that changes the pulse width and frequency of the injectors themselves.

Now the thing I don't know is does my ETG tune box change the pulse widths, or does it simply increase rail pressure like all the others? The overstated mpg would indicate that it does the latter, but maybe since they only programmed part of the chip it's ok. I have not asked them yet.

[Chief Orman]

I too have started monitoring my regens but have not done it for long enough to discern if I have kicked up frequency. Short of a more sophisticated flash I would be willing to bet every tuning box is messing with rail pressure. I am banking on BMW over engineering here.

I think one has to mind their driving style with these tuning boxes, e.g., five back to back 0-60 runs are gonna kick off a regen. Moreover anything that bumps the power of the engine is gonna put an increased load on the emmissions system unless we have somehow suspended the laws of internal combustion. There is no free lunch on this front.

I am sure this has been covered a million times before but is it possible to remotely flash a car and also make it undetectable to the dealer? Has anyone used the Schnitzer tuning system. Is there any fully baked way to shitcan the DPF?

[Bicax]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

Amigo Bicax my flash is ecrypted. My friend from Poland tried to look it up and couldnt find it when he entered my ecu.

As far as I've read, most flashes (if not all) are encrypted. So what you're describing is perfectly normal.

The problem arises when you blow something up, and BMW headquarters get involved in the warranty discussions. They can detect that your car has been tampered with.

There was a topic at some point regarding this supposed invisibility of encrypted files, and how they can be found. No tuner will give you a 100% guarantee that their product cannot be detected as far as I know (from reading online and from European tuners I have contacted).

Maybe I'm over cautious, but I rather be on the safe side regarding this :-)

[BOTUS]

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

it was really surprising how much difference there was in feel and performance between the two boxes.
DTUK Overview...

The stock throttle response of the car just sucks in comparison to what the DTUK tune does to the car's day to day drivability. In any event, huge performance gains and drastically improved drivability via better throttle response and modulation.

can you say what issue you have with throttle response on the stock car? you mention you don't like it but not what's wrong with it.

[sirbikesalot]

If you remove the DPF, either hollow it out or put in a straight pipe, then code out the DPF functions, the problem becomes all the soot then goes right into the cat. The SCR performs a complex chemical balancing system, with a filters, pleats and surface area inside the cat that the soot will clog up. So then you have to remove it and code it out. It will never pass emissions.

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Is there any fully baked way to shitcan the DPF?

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by sirbikesalot

If you remove the DPF, either hollow it out or put in a straight pipe, then code out the DPF functions, the problem becomes all the soot then goes right into the cat. The SCR performs a complex chemical balancing system, with a filters, pleats and surface area inside the cat that the soot will clog up. So then you have to remove it and code it out. It will never pass emissions.

Thanks...helpful. So there is no way to get rid of the DPF if one hopes to pass an emissions test...bummer.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Amigo Chief need not to worry Ive been doing this for the past 12 years

[m9bm]

To revive this..

Which box will give me the fastest 0-100 mph times?

JBD or DTUK?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by sirbikesalot

This is why you get the CEL. Then computer is telling you that there is too much fuel going through it. The right way to do it is with a tune that changes the pulse width and frequency of the injectors themselves.

Now the thing I don't know is does my ETG tune box change the pulse widths, or does it simply increase rail pressure like all the others? The overstated mpg would indicate that it does the latter, but maybe since they only programmed part of the chip it's ok. I have not asked them yet.

While I wouldn't normally post to such an old thread, this and other more current threads are all asking similar questions regarding piggyback performance enhancers.
The CEL isn't just a warning, there is corrective action going on also. Virtually all control loops in the DDE have measurement redundancy and plausibility checks. Let, me give some insight.
Rail pressure is controlled by the DDE via the Volume Control Valve of the fuel pump through the familair feedback loop of the rail pressure sensor. Not only is the DDE montioring the rail pressure, but it is also monitoring the duty cycle of the VCV. The chain of events looks like this. Within plausibilty limits the DDE will compensate for lowered rail pressure sensor readings. Outside of those limits it will start to increase pulse width. At some point, the combination of low VCV duty cycle and out of bounds pulse width will trigger a CEL. So, just before there is a CEL, all piggybacks are causing the DDE to increase pulse width. Downside is if this happens within adaption operating ranges the DDE will learn around the piggyback. That's what happens with the JDB. That does not happen with the DTUK, or any other box that can delay distortion of rail pressure until rpms above @ 3,000 are achieved.

[m9bm]

Originally Posted by DWR

While I wouldn't normally post to such an old thread, this and other more current threads are all asking similar questions regarding piggyback performance enhancers.
The CEL isn't just a warning, there is corrective action going on also. Virtually all control loops in the DDE have measurement redundancy and plausibility checks. Let, me give some insight.
Rail pressure is controlled by the DDE via the Volume Control Valve of the fuel pump through the familair feedback loop of the rail pressure sensor. Not only is the DDE montioring the rail pressure, but it is also monitoring the duty cycle of the VCV. The chain of events looks like this. Within plausibilty limits the DDE will compensate for lowered rail pressure sensor readings. Outside of those limits it will start to increase pulse width. At some point, the combination of low VCV duty cycle and out of bounds pulse width will trigger a CEL. So, just before there is a CEL, all piggybacks are causing the DDE to increase pulse width. Downside is if this happens within adaption operating ranges the DDE will learn around the piggyback. That's what happens with the JDB. That does not happen with the DTUK, or any other box that can delay distortion of rail pressure until rpms above @ 3,000 are achieved.

Can you explain what happens when the DDE learns around the JBD?
Is power decreased? Does a SES light get thrown?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by m9bm

Can you explain what happens when the DDE learns around the JBD?
Is power decreased? Does a SES light get thrown?

Less power, period.

[m9bm]

Originally Posted by DWR

Less power, period.

Do you have any first hand experience either box?

Currently I have the JBD at 100%, but I'm looking for more power..
Would a switch to DTUK be worth my time and money?

I'm under warranty til 2017/100k so don't want to use a flash tune til then.

[DWR]

Are you spraying H20/methanol? That's a method to get more fuel. Also, see the thread I just posted.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by DWR

While I wouldn't normally post to such an old thread, this and other more current threads are all asking similar questions regarding piggyback performance enhancers.
The CEL isn't just a warning, there is corrective action going on also. Virtually all control loops in the DDE have measurement redundancy and plausibility checks. Let, me give some insight.
Rail pressure is controlled by the DDE via the Volume Control Valve of the fuel pump through the familair feedback loop of the rail pressure sensor. Not only is the DDE montioring the rail pressure, but it is also monitoring the duty cycle of the VCV. The chain of events looks like this. Within plausibilty limits the DDE will compensate for lowered rail pressure sensor readings. Outside of those limits it will start to increase pulse width. At some point, the combination of low VCV duty cycle and out of bounds pulse width will trigger a CEL. So, just before there is a CEL, all piggybacks are causing the DDE to increase pulse width. Downside is if this happens within adaption operating ranges the DDE will learn around the piggyback. That's what happens with the JDB. That does not happen with the DTUK, or any other box that can delay distortion of rail pressure until rpms above @ 3,000 are achieved.

Really helpful explanation. Thanks

[demon]

Originally Posted by m9bm

Do you have any first hand experience either box?

Currently I have the JBD at 100%, but I'm looking for more power..
Would a switch to DTUK be worth my time and money?

I'm under warranty til 2017/100k so don't want to use a flash tune til then.

My experience with DTUK: To the OP - he claims program 4 is fuel only - I would like to know where he got this info, according the the little graphs they supply, it looks like program 4 has the MOST turbo boost.

I have been running the DTUK CRD-t for about a year. I do not know how often you throw codes with your JBD but the DTUK throws code on regular basis. most common code I get p228e and p323f.
If I drive to a store and park the car for 20-30 minutes when I come out, the engine is still warm, but if I get on it such as merging -I will throw a code or go into limp mode.

In program 1 setting 1 I get good power but sifting is sometimes jerky both up and downshifting.
Program 3 setting 0 good power a lot more responsive and shifts smoother.
program 3 setting 1 more power first time I saw the p323f
Program 4 setting 1 so far my favorite but more tendency to throw codes.
Program 4 setting 0 good power, but not as strong as setting 1, but still throws p228e codes.

I have not tried setting 2 on any program because I keep throwing codes with setting 1.

I am in the same boat extended warranty until 100k, CPO warranty for about 7k more. I am not sure - any input greatly appreciated, but I have been told a Rentech tune is undetectable - unless the stealership is looking for it. It also does not throw codes. I would like to do this at 50k - if it is undetectable????.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by demon

My experience with DTUK: To the OP - he claims program 4 is fuel only - I would like to know where he got this info, according the the little graphs they supply, it looks like program 4 has the MOST turbo boost.

I have been running the DTUK CRD-t for about a year. I do not know how often you throw codes with your JBD but the DTUK throws code on regular basis. most common code I get p228e and p323f.
If I drive to a store and park the car for 20-30 minutes when I come out, the engine is still warm, but if I get on it such as merging -I will throw a code or go into limp mode.

In program 1 setting 1 I get good power but sifting is sometimes jerky both up and downshifting.
Program 3 setting 0 good power a lot more responsive and shifts smoother.
program 3 setting 1 more power first time I saw the p323f
Program 4 setting 1 so far my favorite but more tendency to throw codes.
Program 4 setting 0 good power, but not as strong as setting 1, but still throws p228e codes.

I have not tried setting 2 on any program because I keep throwing codes with setting 1.

I am in the same boat extended warranty until 100k, CPO warranty for about 7k more. I am not sure - any input greatly appreciated, but I have been told a Rentech tune is undetectable - unless the stealership is looking for it. It also does not throw codes. I would like to do this at 50k - if it is undetectable????.

One of the most irritating things about owning the DTUK was the general vagueness of the provided materials related to the different maps. Having to call / email the UK was silly in my view. Moreover it seems as though the basic profiles/parameters have shifted depending on when you purchased your crd-t. My map 4 was extra fueling only and I ran it on the +2 jumper. My map 4 had a powerful impact on acceleration but was prone to throw CELs in hot weather. In fairness when I backed it off to +1 it rarely threw codes.

Today I run the Racechip Ultimate which I think is a better more sophisticated box.

[torqueisking]

Originally Posted by DWR

Less power, period.

conjecture

prove it