[vadonchez]

I changed turbo inlet gaskets in may to eliminate this theory. Car was 49000kms.

This time i keep them because car was only 52900kms when i changed turbo so gaskets are still like new.

I already check rear turbo inlet and everything seem's to be ok.

If I have to change turbos again i will work on rebuild my oem set and see if someone in europe could upgrade them for more reliablity.

EDIT:

I just check again my rear turbo blade by disassemble the inlet completely, look at gasket wich is ok.
No axial shaftplay and a little bit radial but not more than when I installed them 1000km ago.

I'm go back one years later with my oem set....

Really disapointed.


EDIT2:

I just take time to look at my first oem set with more attention.
Honnestly they are like brand new nothing to say exept maybe a little bit more wastegate play on front turbo than rear one.
Could it be possible that whine comes from play between turbo housing and wastegate stem....?

From what I understand turbine stem rotate into bearing on a film of oil and bearing rotate into CHRA housing on a film of oil too.
Thrust bearing is here to avoid axial movement.
If thrust bearing is dead then axial shaftplay is coming, CHRA gasket go out of there housing and oils is burning so white smoke...
If bearing are dead then radial shaftplay is coming
Because I have absolutely no axial or radial shaftplay for me all bearing are ok.

My brain has lot of difficulties to uderstand how a stem wich is floating on a film of oil counld whine...
My brain think of an air tubulance but blades are brand new...
My brain need to sleep....

[vadonchez]

I called a turbo specialist in paris suburbs.
Idee is to bench my CHRA to see if something is wrong and then dismantle them to found the exact cause of the whining noise.

I sent him a video of the noise on facebook.
He doesn't undertstand how an MHD map could hurt my turbo regarding how conservative are the maps...
He don't think that noise could be du to a lack of lubrification because in that case turbo will break very quickly.
For him whine is du to a small deformation of the inlet wheel wich could have heat du to over speed, in that case,the wheel will have an "orange peel" surface effect.
I said to him that last MHD revision tend to ask more psi at high rpm where oem tiny turbo are out of steam.

I will bring my turbo to him thursday.

Will come back with news ASAP.

Bye

[studio54]

Cool thanks, we need more crazy people like you!

I am looking forward the result of your investigation.

I never thought about the wheel being deformed by the heat, but it should be possible. It's red glowing hot in the snails. A minor deformation of the surface blades will probably affect the sound signature, like when a a blade is slightly broken.

I generally log fuel mode, then I noticed that MHD v8 v9 v10 were triggering fuel mode 6 (cat protection mode) which means that it estimates too high EGT.
(Never got a fuel mode 6 in the V7 to my memories)

[vadonchez]

Never heard about fuel mode but thats really interesting.
I now understand why the turbo specialist said to me that n54 has lots of self protection.

V7 seems to be more safe

[studio54]

Yes, you can log it by ticking "fuel mode".

On operating temperatures, you should see fuel mode 20 during spool mode, and fuel mode 2 during normal operation. I was seeing fuel mode 6 at the end of hard pull which indicate a too high EGT for cats (it's meant to protect catalytic converter so maybe it's not supposed to be a problem when you have no cat anymore).

[vadonchez]

What MHD map are you running when it happens ?
Stage 1/1+/2/2+?
What about your fuel octane ?

Thanks

[studio54]

Stage 2+ with 91oct & octane booster.
I happened time to time at the end of a hard pull, but it's just an observation because you spoke about heat and it's a thing I noticed, maybe not related at all. We have to wait for the result of your bench tests.

You can see it here for example :
https://datazap.me/u/studio54/mhd-st...data=3-5-13-21

[vadonchez]

ok thanks

Your log is nice.

V9 stage 2+ ask more than TD03 are able to supply to stay in there efficiency area.

Above 4500rpm up to 6500 those tiny turbos are a bit out of steam with that map.


RPM PSI HP Nm

1300 4.00 55 302
1400 6.50 67 343
1500 15.80 104 493
1600 17.50 117 521
1700 17.60 125 522
1800 17.70 132 524
1900 17.80 140 525
2000 17.80 148 525
2100 17.90 155 527
2200 18.00 163 529
2300 18.10 171 530
2400 18.20 179 532
2500 18.30 187 534
2600 18.40 195 535
2700 18.50 204 537
2800 18.50 211 537
2900 18.60 219 538
3000 18.80 228 542
3100 18.90 237 543
3200 19.00 245 545
3300 19.10 253 546
3400 19.20 262 548
3500 19.30 270 550
3600 19.40 279 551
3700 19.30 286 550
3800 19.20 293 548
3900 19.10 299 546
4000 19.00 306 545
4100 18.90 313 543
4200 18.70 319 540
4300 18.60 325 538
4400 18.50 332 537
4500 18.40 338 535
4600 18.10 343 530
4700 17.70 346 524
4800 17.30 349 517
4900 16.90 352 511
5000 16.50 354 504
5100 16.20 358 500
5200 15.80 360 493
5300 15.50 363 488
5400 15.10 365 482
5500 14.80 368 477
5600 14.50 371 472
5700 14.10 373 466
5800 13.60 373 458
5900 13.00 371 448
6000 12.40 369 438
6100 11.90 368 430
6200 11.30 366 420
6300 10.80 365 412
6400 10.20 362 403
6500 9.70 360 394
6600 9.10 357 385
6700 8.60 354 377
6800 8.20 354 370
6900 7.70 351 362
7000 7.20 348 354

[vadonchez]

Hi

I just had a call from my turbo specialist wich had test my both CHRA.

Results, both are unbalanced, one a little bit out of balanced, the other one more. (he told me about a 0.65mg of acceptable tolerance.The first one is at 0,79, the second at 1mg).
First lesson, even if i was unable to feel any shaftplay by hand, shafts are unbalanced....

He dismantle the most unbalanced of both and found that the intake wheel had a little bit of orange peel.

He told me that it's very few distorted but that could explain the whine at low rpm....

the reason of a distorted intake wheel is overspeed.

Now we have to found why our turbo had overspeed....
Some assumptions:

1)Bad MHD tune asking for too much psi at high rpm (V10??)
2) Bosst leak wich make that turbos have to works too hard?
3) Wastegate control probleme, made them stay closed?
4) Bad DV wich generate exess back pressure on turbo?

To my understanding, assumptions 2/3/4 should be visible troughs my logs.
2) Boost leak will generate high WGDC thats not the case
3) Wastegate stay close should generate under or overboost and it's not the case
4) Bad DV should generate pressure to jump a lot and during too much time whenthrottle close and that's not the case...

remain hypothesis number 1, wich is strange because everybody using V10 maps should have the problem and it's not tha case...
Any idea/help is welcome guys!


they will send to me the videos of the bench soon.
I will collect them next week, I will take photos of the CHRA elements.

[studio54]

Thanks for the bench test.

I would have think that the whining sound has something to do with the airflow dynamics (orange peel on blades like you mentionned, or a slightly broken/damaged blade). I would imagine that if it's unbalanced, it will like make a drill sound cause blade will eventually touch the housing maybe?

Did he tell you something about if it's still safe or not with driving that unbalanced ?

Yes, it is weird that not that much people complain about that if let's say V10 (or high target tunes) causes that.

[vadonchez]

unbalanced does not necessarily mean that blade is in contact with housing.
As I said, i didn't feel any problem with the shaft yet the bench test detect a problem.

Not asked but i think that run turbos like ours is safe until unbalanced increase then noise will become louder, possibly oil consumption etc...

I found a thread hear about maxing a honda civic wich is equiped with MHI TD03: https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/boost...cs-td03-turbo/

Seem's that honda oem boost is 16.5psi and tuner succeed to run the car up to 27psi

I don't know if N54 TD03 and civic TD03 are the same but if it's the case then our mhD tune are pretty safe regarding boost curve.

Surprise to see that civic boost psi @6K is around 16psi on stage 1.

[vadonchez]

Hi

I bringed back my turbo today and made a video to try to explain the turbo whine (excuse my english wich is not perfect):

https://youtu.be/SsjmtHejUxk

[Sgop335]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

unbalanced does not necessarily mean that blade is in contact with housing.
As I said, i didn't feel any problem with the shaft yet the bench test detect a problem.

Not asked but i think that run turbos like ours is safe until unbalanced increase then noise will become louder, possibly oil consumption etc...

I found a thread hear about maxing a honda civic wich is equiped with MHI TD03: https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/boost...cs-td03-turbo/

Seem's that honda oem boost is 16.5psi and tuner succeed to run the car up to 27psi

I don't know if N54 TD03 and civic TD03 are the same but if it's the case then our mhD tune are pretty safe regarding boost curve.

Surprise to see that civic boost psi @6K is around 16psi on stage 1.

Looks like the civic compressor wheel is 39mm/46mm, whereas stock n54 is 35/46

[Mrmigs2011]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Looks like the civic compressor wheel is 39mm/46mm, whereas stock n54 is 35/46

Wonder if that chra could be installed into ours?

Slight airflow bumps never a bad thing?

[Sgop335]

Originally Posted by Mrmigs2011

Wonder if that chra could be installed into ours?

Slight airflow bumps never a bad thing?

Its been done, they have upgraded wheels for the td03.
( 10T is n54 stock)

[vadonchez]

my turbo whine is getting louder...

I ran V10 stage 1 E50 now only targeting 13 psi and even with that tune, as soon as i run my car with high rpm as in the log here, i can hear whine a little bit louder run after run....:

https://datazap.me/u/vadonchez/v10-s...a=3-4-21-29-30

Seem's to be the rear turbo. When i disconnect the wastegate actuator then there is no whine....

Semm's that my intake compressor wheel is getting worse run after run like my first turbo set.

Log isn't perfect because of post-shift timing correction as always with V10 but nothing seem's to be wrong with wastegate WGDC wich could explain a boost leak or a problem with wastegate solenoid.

If my DV were dead, i will see it trough my log right? Exept boost mean parameter wich increase maybe too much when throttle is closing i can see anything indicate a bad DV but if you guys see anything please tell me...

How can 12.5psi @6500 destroy my turbo when lot of you guys run more psi with oem turbo?

IS 50%WGDC already too much @6500 for OEM turbo?

[studio54]

Originally Posted by vadonchez

my turbo whine is getting louder...

I ran V10 stage 1 E50 now only targeting 13 psi and even with that tune, as soon as i run my car with high rpm as in the log here, i can hear whine a little bit louder run after run....:

https://datazap.me/u/vadonchez/v10-s...a=3-4-21-29-30

Seem's to be the rear turbo. When i disconnect the wastegate actuator then there is no whine....

Semm's that my intake compressor wheel is getting worse run after run like my first turbo set.

Log isn't perfect because of post-shift timing correction as always with V10 but nothing seem's to be wrong with wastegate WGDC wich could explain a boost leak or a problem with wastegate solenoid.

If my DV were dead, i will see it trough my log right? Exept boost mean parameter wich increase maybe too much when throttle is closing i can see anything indicate a bad DV but if you guys see anything please tell me...

How can 12.5psi @6500 destroy my turbo when lot of you guys run more psi with oem turbo?

IS 50%WGDC already too much @6500 for OEM turbo?

No 50% WGDC is fine IMO.

If your DVs were dead, either leaking/stuck open will be a boost leak, and stuck close, will result in audible/felt turbo surge/flutter (I guess).

According to your logs, it seems fine, the boost mean peak on let off is normal, it takes like 1 second to release the pressure that get trapped in the charge pipe after the throttle body get closed. (On mine and on most logs, it takes 1 second)

Maybe last European Mitsubishis OEM turbos batch (material quality?) have this problem and are not as strong as older one to support high boost level ?
If it was tune related, with thousand of ppl running MHD, this thread will be more populated.

Honnestly, I just knock on wood that mine will last like that (boosting ok, no smoking/losing oil), even if the noise is disturbing me sometimes. If not I will have to take a decision, and I think it will be RB turbos.