[kaishang]

Subzero.... ouch

[dakhu1]

:cl

[Subzero2003]

As expected - no response from the Winter Tyres club.

Disappointing really considering before, there were 4 or 5 people calling me an idiot for not getting winter tyres

Oh well, i expect we'll see them in the next "winter tyres - should i or not?" thread saying about how winters are the best thing ever.

[Frosticles]

I put winters on my Subaru STi last year. They really were fantastic. Before, I had Toyo T1R's on, Great in the dry and in the summer. Came to mid November last year and bought some second hand STI alloys (£50) and some part worn (5mm tread) Dunlop Winter Sport 3D's. It started snowing 3 days later and these tyres were simply brilliant. I was one of the few cars still running in the village with the majority of cars (BMW's, Audi's 4x4's etc) were laid up still on summer tyres. I honestly think those winter tyres were worth their weight in Gold.
This year, I have a 330d Tourer so I think winter tyres will be even more important. I have a set all ready to go on at the end of the month when it becomes cold enough.
It is a FACT that winter tyres will be safer on your car than summer tyres when the temperature drops below zero and certainly when the roads become icy or snow laden.

[Subzero2003]

Originally Posted by Frosticles

I put winters on my Subaru STi last year. They really were fantastic. Before, I had Toyo T1R's on, Great in the dry and in the summer. Came to mid November last year and bought some second hand STI alloys (£50)

£50 for a set of alloys?! That's mental.

Originally Posted by Frosticles

and some part worn (5mm tread) Dunlop Winter Sport 3D's. It started snowing 3 days later and these tyres were simply brilliant. I was one of the few cars still running in the village with the majority of cars (BMW's, Audi's 4x4's etc) were laid up still on summer tyres. I honestly think those winter tyres were worth their weight in Gold.

Good timing! Unfortunately at the moment it doesn't show any sign of snowing or even getting cold.

Originally Posted by Frosticles

This year, I have a 330d Tourer so I think winter tyres will be even more important. I have a set all ready to go on at the end of the month when it becomes cold enough.

No doubt, if your Impreza struggled last year in snow, your 330d won't move.

Originally Posted by Frosticles

It is a FACT that winter tyres will be safer on your car than summer tyres when the temperature drops below zero and certainly when the roads become icy or snow laden.

This is probably true and definitely true RE: winter tyres in the snow.

However, the safety benefits are cancelled out by the fact that people are now fitting their winter tyres when the temperature is still 15c outside. When they will be wearing away at a rate of knots and will be much much poorer than summer tyres at this temp and with dry/mildly moist roads.

[SelSol]

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

And what makes up most of our winter? Yes, that's correct, rain.

Cept the three months of sub zero conditions we had last winter....because you know, when its sub zero, its not rain, physics fail.

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

More worryingly, i think you seemed to have missed the bit that we don't live in Germany, Finland, Austria, Italy, Latvia or Slovenia?

BTW everyone in Australia, South African and California uses summer tyres - THAT OBVIOUSLY SHOWS THAT SUMMER TYRES ARE THE BEST!!!111

I have several issues with this post:

1) When did californians become the smartest people on earth
2) Germany and most of eastern europe experiences similar weather conditions to us, hence the relevance
3) Geography Fail. Do you really think you need the same tyres in Finland that you do in South Africa? Really? Really?
4) Please re-read post 3. I know technically its a repeat but its such a big fail I wanted to mention it twice.

Can you spot the difference:

British Winter:



South African Winter:



You see where I'm going with this? A sort of not-very-cold-or-snowy-at-all type direction?

Anyways, like I give a crap if you think I wasted £500 on a set of wheels and tyres, its not like I can't afford it. Would have got back to you earlier, but I have one of those job things where I have to work for a living.

[kaishang]

That may be a UK winter photo, but it isn't a typical UK winter photo. This is a typical English winter



Grey, raining..... but above freezing.

The average minimum temperature in England is never below freezing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate...United_Kingdom

The average winter temperature is between +1C and +7C.... right in the range where there is negligible difference in performance between summer and winter tyres.

Of course, it can snow. If it does snow and you have summer tyres, you are going to have problems. Like last winter, which was severe, you won't be able to drive anywhere.

If you do not buy winter tyres, then you must accept that risk that there will be times you can't drive. Personally I can't get excited about paying £1,600* for BMWs winter tyre option when in a typical English winter, it is above freezing all the time. I'll take the risk.... it might not snow.


(*) before you tell me it can be done for a lot less than £1,600 I want to hear how you manage the risk of getting a flat tyre by buying non-RFTs and how much extra you pay your insurer for modifications because you are moving away from OEM rims.


opc orn:

[SelSol]

Spot the sulkers who can't afford the winter tyres

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

Just done a bit more browsing around the internet and found another test:


Interesting - 26ft (8 metres) extra stopping distance from 60mph on a wet surface with Michelins best winter tyre. Seems to match up quite well with the "WhatCar" winter tyre test too.

Comments?

I do think you are cherry picking results, I could do the same, and get a different bias on tyre choice.

You mention in another place, the difference between UHP summer wet braking distances and the Conti used in the test. Saying you'd expect better from a UHP tyre. Even there we can cherry pick from data. I've seen a controlled test where a Bridgestone Turanza was a better wet braker than the 'winning' Goodyear F1 Asymmetric, so we compromise anyway. We'd give away the better wet braking, for the overall package and performance across the board, of the Goodyear.

Don't you think dwelling on wet braking distances at the higher range of winter tyre temperature tests is only part of the picture? Choosing tyres is a set of compromises anyway, we set priorities for what we need in our driving conditions. Emergency stops from higher speeds is only one of many key factors. If we drive to the conditions, even that is less of an issue, than some of the other benefits to running appropriate tyres for the season.

What we have to allow for is the sudden drop in temperatures, which often we don't get too much warning off, for me that is often in 3 -5 miles of driving.

Changing temperatures applies all over the country, go home in the evening at say 7-degrees and you drive off in a frost the next morning.

HighlandPete

[davyk31]

Risk of flat tyre with non runflats is easily managed by either buying a spare tyre and jack or a tin of tyre weld and compressor, very cheap and effective. Insurers in the main perfectly happy with non runflats and yes a winter setup can be purchased for less than £1600.

Hey, you never know even the complainers may be able to afford a set as they can be bought for less than £1600 !!!

Bottom line is that in MY opinion MY family and loved ones are better protected against the extremes with winter tyres fitted and for that assurance I would pay any amount of money, end of for me.

[kaishang]

Non-RFT winter tyres comply with the tyre plackard so insurers can't argue with them, but non-OEM wheels are certainly a problem because then your car is a modified vehicle. Which means you are back to buying BMW 17" rims with winter tyres off BMW for £1,600.

You could buy secondhand genuine BMW rims off eBay and independently source non-RFTs then take them all to a tyre fitter and no doubt it would be a lot cheaper and still comply with the tyre plackard and remain OEM... but this is a lot of effort.

Also if you were to get a unrepairable flat tyre on your winter tyres in the middle of winter, what is the lead time for sourcing a replacement?

[idnan]

On a related note, does anyone have any info on all season tyre performance in sub 7 degree conditions?

I have a few sets of spare 17" wheels from my track car and I'm weighing up whether to buy some part worn winter or all season tyres just in case the conditions take a turn for the worse. Unfortunately in my line of work I don't get snow days off

[dxb335d]

Best to wait untill its Sub-zero before you use winter tyres PMSL

[davyk31]

Quote ...... "You could buy secondhand genuine BMW rims off eBay and independently source non-RFTs then take them all to a tyre fitter and no doubt it would be a lot cheaper and still comply with the tyre plackard and remain OEM... but this is a lot of effort"


Most would probably feel the little bit of effort it takes to take a set of alloys to a tyre depot to get tyres fitted is probably time well spent if you halve your expediture to £800.

Your point really is so weak mate its becoming a bit pointless to keep trying to batter on your erroneous viewpoints.

[pjs]

I'd get winter tyres for the 335i if they did 19" versions. Otherwise it's the X3 and/or home working.

[dxb335d]

Do they not make 19" winter tyres then?

[Statler]

Keep calm and carry on....

So, last winter, in Belfast, where it rarely snows, I drove, sorry, slipped my way to work at 20mph on main roads because of the permafrost that sat on the surface. My lovely 19" bridgestone SUMMER tyres were bugger all use. They clogged with snow and the rubber when as hard as a brick.

We happily sailed around in a 4x4 with M+S tyres on it, the same vehicle that ended up towing my e92 up our lane and depositing it in the yard where it sat for 3 weeks.

We're now running two rear wheel drive cars and as I travel furthest to work, I asked a reasonable question on a forum which seems to have opened up a huge 'debate'...

So, this winter, I've dug out a set of wheels that I had in the garage - £0, and will put some winter tyres on - my choice, I have the disposable income and I've logically thought out that 4 months on these tyres saves 4 months wear on my 19s which are considerably more expensive to replace... I've read reviews and I've asked my local suppliers what's available.

I then turned to you guys to seek opinions and I have weighed them all up and my decision is made.

Thanks for your input, it's been interesting.

[dxb335d]

Good view point mate!!

My 335d was useless in the winter. Didn't help being an Auto and all that torque through an open diff.

[kaishang]

Originally Posted by davyk31

Quote ...... "You could buy secondhand genuine BMW rims off eBay and independently source non-RFTs then take them all to a tyre fitter and no doubt it would be a lot cheaper and still comply with the tyre plackard and remain OEM... but this is a lot of effort"


Most would probably feel the little bit of effort it takes to take a set of alloys to a tyre depot to get tyres fitted is probably time well spent if you halve your expediture to £800.

Your point really is so weak mate its becoming a bit pointless to keep trying to batter on your erroneous viewpoints.

You don't find the idea of trawling through eBay, driving to pick up the secondhand rims and inspecting them or taking time off work to wait for them to be delivered and taking some risk they may not be as they are descrbed, ordering tyres from a separate place, taking time off work again to wait for them to be delivered, taking the tyres and the rims to a tyre fitter etc a lot of work? Plus the additional work of selling your used rims and part-worn tyres on eBay all over again when you dispose of your car?

You must have a lot of time on your hands.

Again winter tyre proponents are not comparing like-for-like costs. Your BMW came with OEM rims and performance summer RFT tyres. A like-for-like comparison would be performance winter RFT tyres and new BMW OEM rims. These cost £1,600.

[kaishang]

Originally Posted by Statler

Keep calm and carry on....

So, last winter, in Belfast, where it rarely snows, I drove, sorry, slipped my way to work at 20mph on main roads because of the permafrost that sat on the surface. My lovely 19" bridgestone SUMMER tyres were bugger all use. They clogged with snow and the rubber when as hard as a brick.

That's correct, summer tyres on ice and snow don't work.

As other winter tyre sceptics have said on this and other thread - if it snows and there are summer tyres on the car, the risk will be managed by leaving the car parked and not driving.

Winter tyres do not eliminate your risk: you can still go off the road on ice (they are much more effective on snow than ice) and people can still drive/slide into you.

And, in a typical English winter, it does not snow. It rains a lot.

[Statler]

Originally Posted by kaishang

Winter tyres do not eliminate your risk: you can still go off the road on ice (they are much more effective on snow than ice) and people can still drive/slide into you.

Absolutely, I know this because I read the advice here and on other media. I am aware of the potential pitfalls but am prepared to take the educated 'risk'

On another note, my insurance company are very pleased that I am considering this and will not penalise me for doing so...

[dxb335d]

It has snowed the past few years.

I remember being up in the Midlands in april 2006 and it snowed LOL.