[cbjr]

My charge air line (item 1 below) has been diagnosed as bad.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...=11&fg=40&hl=1

The symptoms are described in an earlier thread of mine here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...655&highlight=

There is a long thread in the UK section here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...red+boost+pipe

So, all of that said, the dealer wants me to pay $900 out of pocket to fix this, stating that it is a wear item and not covered under CPO. Has anybody else had this issue in the US? I called BMW NA and they simply said they do whatever their dealer says. I pressed and he said he'd look into it further and contact me within 3-5 business days. I'm looking into another service center further away to see if they would fix it under warranty, but I'm waiting for a callback.

Any help or advice is appreciated.
Thanks.

[TorqueAddict]

Do you also feel that there is a loss of low end power / torque, and the car does not respond well till 2700-3000 rpm?

[Brad335d]

So you have a dealer telling you that the charge air pipe is "wear item"?

Go into the dealer with your owner's manual and maintenance schedule and ask them to point to where the charge air pipe is due for service or replacement.

Clearly if its a wear item then BMW must address it as a serviceable part and should have developed a replacement interval or specification.



This dealer is trying to shaft you. Call BMW NA again and demand to speak to someone higher up than you did last time. Then find another dealer because clearly these asshats should be publicly shamed, which is what you need to do after you get your car fixed for the $50 CPO co-pay.

[Brad335d]

Rubber hoses like such as coolant hoses and smaller vacuum hoses are wear items.

There is no reason for the rubber/plastic on that charge hose to fail in 5 years of service. There are still stock Supras, 300ZXs, and VR-4s, with factory charge pipes that haven't failed.

[WreckerX5d]

$900? That's on the cheap side. I've been quoted $1100 and $1500, lol.

I've been getting the same excuse of "well it's a wear part" despite that fact it has a SIB for it.

[Brad335d]

Here's the TSB for what you are describing. It clearly states that it is covered under the BMW new car warranty, so I would demand to know why its not covered under the CPO warranty. It has a defect code listed so I would damn sure make them cover this.


ENGINE - OIL LEAKS/MIL ON/CODE 4674 SET
SI B17 02 09
Cooling Systems
September 2013
Technical Service
This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B17 02 09 dated November 2009.

[NEW] designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
Oil Leak from Turbocharger Charge Air Hose
MODEL
E70, E90 with M57Y diesel engine
SITUATION

The customer may complain of an oil leak from the engine area. The "Service Engine Soon" lamp may also be illuminated with fault code "4674 - FMO injection quantities-observer" stored.

CAUSE

The molded seal in the charge air pipe may have been cut by debris abrasions, causing an external leak of air and oil in the charged air system of the turbocharger. An improved seal has been developed to correct this issue.



PROCEDURE



PARTS INFORMATION




[NEW] WARRANTY INFORMATION









Disclaimer

© 2014 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved. Terms and Conditions

[Brad335d]

As far as DTC 4674 is concerned:


4674 - P323F

Information saved in
DDE

Fault code
4674 - P323F

Fault text
Fuel injection rate monitoring:

Fault description
Monitoring of calculated injection correction quantity.
The diagnostic trouble code is logged when the total
correction quantity minus the current value for the base
correction quantity rises above the limit value calculated
based on the current operating point (limit value roughly 25
mg, depends on injection quantity and actual air mass). The
monitoring function covers the injection quantities for all
cylinders and is determined using the lambda factor. The
EGR rate is used in an attempt to compensate for the
deviation in the injection quantity.

Condition for fault identification
Test condition:
The monitoring function is active when the injection
quantity monitoring is active.
Voltage condition:
The monitoring function is active when the injection
quantity monitoring is active.

Condition for fault memory entry
Debounce (5000 ms)

Action in service
-

Fault effect and breakdown warning
-

Driver information
Warning light:
MIL

Service instruction
none

© 2014 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved. Terms and Conditions

[Puerto Rican 335d]

I'll be damned with the dealers

[cbjr]

BMW NA just called and said it is not covered by CPO, but they are going to cover it anyways. There was another issue with my throttle body being loose, and I will be on the hook for that damage, though. I'm waiting for an estimate for what I will have to pay for now.

[cbjr]

Originally Posted by TorqueAddict

Do you also feel that there is a loss of low end power / torque, and the car does not respond well till 2700-3000 rpm?

It's hard to say. My only experience with the 335d is a test drive on a base model and my ownership with the sports model. From what I can tell, it feels good at low RPM, especially when colder. I'd say at 2700-3k rpm the power falls off worse, rather than getting better.

[cbjr]

Originally Posted by Brad335d

Here's the TSB for what you are describing. It clearly states that it is covered under the BMW new car warranty, so I would demand to know why its not covered under the CPO warranty. It has a defect code listed so I would damn sure make them cover this.

Thank you very much for the detailed investigation. According to my SA, his explanation is that the shop foreman said it is a wear item, therefore it must be. Then he went on to say that there is a document that fully defines what is and what is not covered by CPO (which is different than new car warranty - his words). He was going to send me that file, but BMWNA called with the news that they would cover the fix before he found it. The only document I can find regarding what is not covered by CPO states the following, under Upkeep:

"rubber engine and heater coolant hoses, vacuum hoses (including clamps and connectors);"

from:
http://cache.bmwusa.com/Pdf_16a4e27f...f-adbdaad31bd1

That doesn't seem to cover turbo piping, but it is a little vague.

I'll keep updating as I learn more. Thanks again everyone for their support/advice.

[WreckerX5d]

Originally Posted by cbjr

Thank you very much for the detailed investigation. According to my SA, his explanation is that the shop foreman said it is a wear item, therefore it must be. Then he went on to say that there is a document that fully defines what is and what is not covered by CPO (which is different than new car warranty - his words). He was going to send me that file, but BMWNA called with the news that they would cover the fix before he found it. The only document I can find regarding what is not covered by CPO states the following, under Upkeep:

"rubber engine and heater coolant hoses, vacuum hoses (including clamps and connectors);"

from:
http://cache.bmwusa.com/Pdf_16a4e27f...f-adbdaad31bd1

That doesn't seem to cover turbo piping, but it is a little vague.

I'll keep updating as I learn more. Thanks again everyone for their support/advice.

What did you say to get them to cover it? I called BMW NA and they just claimed it's a wear item.

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by cbjr

BMW NA just called and said it is not covered by CPO, but they are going to cover it anyways. There was another issue with my throttle body being loose, and I will be on the hook for that damage, though. I'm waiting for an estimate for what I will have to pay for now.

How could your throttle body be loose. I don't get it. Unless someone was poking around there and forgot to tighten things back, it's a far shot.

[Mark M]

My CPO is in at the dealer for the exact same thing. They took it in yesterday for their 'official' diagnosis, then pulled it outside. Now we are waiting to hear if BMW will cover it or not before they pull it back in and proceed.

[cbjr]

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

What did you say to get them to cover it? I called BMW NA and they just claimed it's a wear item.

I had to talk to two people at NA. The first was a very nice lady who didn't seem to know anything about details of what CPO covered. She simply read the website to me. I explained to her why that didn't explain the declination of coverage and she didn't have much else to say. She called the SA at my dealer and he simply repeated to her what he told to me, which of course didn't help anything. The SA told her that this piece is plastic, and therefore is a wear item not covered by warranty. I repeated that that is simply not true, as there are numerous plastic items covered by warranty. After realizing that she had no argument, and I seemed to understand their warranty exclusions better than her, she passed me on to someone else who seemed to have some technical knowledge. He was very curt, and basically repeated what was said already. I explained that I couldn't find any documentation that showed this piece as a wear item, so he ended the conversation saying he would look into it and get back to me within 3-5 days.

I can't say specifically what I said, other than repeating words from the CPO page of what is and what is not covered. IMO, it should be covered. In BMW's opinion, it is not. For some reason, they are taking care of it for me.

[cbjr]

Originally Posted by Yozh

How could your throttle body be loose. I don't get it. Unless someone was poking around there and forgot to tighten things back, it's a far shot.

As far as I can tell, this damage is unrelated, and is why I'm supposed to foot the bill. I plan to ask more questions regarding this when I pick the car up. I don't get the impression that my SA understands things mechanical, since he continues to call this piece the "down pipe". Hopefully one of the techs can go into more detail. I'm also planning to pull the service history to see if it was just a botched repair job at another BMW dealer.

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by cbjr

As far as I can tell, this damage is unrelated, and is why I'm supposed to foot the bill. I plan to ask more questions regarding this when I pick the car up. I don't get the impression that my SA understands things mechanical, since he continues to call this piece the "down pipe". Hopefully one of the techs can go into more detail. I'm also planning to pull the service history to see if it was just a botched repair job at another BMW dealer.

I wonder what the charge is going to be for screwing three screws and/or one clip?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...63&hg=11&fg=40

If I were you I would ask them to show me what's wrong, what is going to be done and what is the charge - before they do any work. Sounds like they are not very honest/bright.

[BB_cuda]

Concerning loose throttle body, that part had to be removed for the EGR recall. If you have never pulled your throttle body ( i have done it twice to clean throat of EGR valve), either it was loose from the factory or the techs at the dealer didn't properly tighten it during the EGR valve recall work.

I recall those damn screws being very tight to remove the first time. I bought a long T handle set of metric "allen" wrenches. I know that it took a weird combo of using the T handle sometimes and a 1/4" drive rachet with long extension other times. I tightened them up pretty snug when reassembling. When I took it apart again, they had not loosened up.

This has reminded me to pull valve again for cleaning now that EGR cooler flow path is blocked. I want to monitor if it stays clean and there isn't any reason for it to get dirty now (except oil coming through turbo/intercooler/charge pipe).

[cbjr]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

Concerning loose throttle body, that part had to be removed for the EGR recall. If you have never pulled your throttle body ( i have done it twice to clean throat of EGR valve), either it was loose from the factory or the techs at the dealer didn't properly tighten it during the EGR valve recall work.

Yeah, my guess was it was poorly assembled during the recall. I've only had the car a month, so I'm still learning its history.

[WreckerX5d]

Originally Posted by cbjr

I had to talk to two people at NA. The first was a very nice lady who didn't seem to know anything about details of what CPO covered. She simply read the website to me. I explained to her why that didn't explain the declination of coverage and she didn't have much else to say. She called the SA at my dealer and he simply repeated to her what he told to me, which of course didn't help anything. The SA told her that this piece is plastic, and therefore is a wear item not covered by warranty. I repeated that that is simply not true, as there are numerous plastic items covered by warranty. After realizing that she had no argument, and I seemed to understand their warranty exclusions better than her, she passed me on to someone else who seemed to have some technical knowledge. He was very curt, and basically repeated what was said already. I explained that I couldn't find any documentation that showed this piece as a wear item, so he ended the conversation saying he would look into it and get back to me within 3-5 days.

I can't say specifically what I said, other than repeating words from the CPO page of what is and what is not covered. IMO, it should be covered. In BMW's opinion, it is not. For some reason, they are taking care of it for me.

Thanks. I'll give them a call again and explain it similar to that. I might even throw in that someone else had it done so why can't I, lol. I am just baffled that there is even a TSB out for it, yet CPO doesn't cover it. I would hope the generic 50k mi warranty covers everything anyway so that should've been irrelevant.

[ZetaTre]

This code 4674 showed up the other day in my X5 35d. This code alone nothing else and didn't actually trigger the check engine light. For no I have reset it, but if it comes back around I'll let it take it course and see if it triggers the CEL.

Anyone actually has the pdf of this bulletin SI B17 02 09?

[WreckerX5d]

Originally Posted by ZetaTre

This code 4674 showed up the other day in my X5 35d. This code alone nothing else and didn't actually trigger the check engine light. For no I have reset it, but if it comes back around I'll let it take it course and see if it triggers the CEL.

Anyone actually has the pdf of this bulletin SI B17 02 09?

I can get the PDF emailed to me if you really want. I asked my friend on what he does for this SIB, and he just replaces the $5 seals. It takes maybe 1 hour to do this. No BMW mechanic actually replaces the hose (according to him).

Here are the P/N's:
11618506786 (PS, Top)
11617791470 (PS, Bottom)
11617791469 (DS, Bottom)
11617790547 (DS, Top)

The symptoms for this are an audible rush of air instead of turbo whine, excessive oil surrounding the areas and lack of power.