[WOT Bimmer]

Hello All,

I have been doing what I call a "detail" on my car just about weekly since I bought it, but I think it is about time to do a real detail on it. I usually wash it by hand, blow dry with the leaf blower, dry the rest by hand with a waffle weave micro, and then wax or detail with dodo juice. I have noticed, especially since winter, that the car has a lot of little scratches/swirls in the paint when you look at it up close. It also has a fair amount of water spots that can only be seen up close, so I think claying it would be a good idea too.

I was considering getting the porter cable 7424xp, and I was wondering what pads/size you would recommend for it. I believe I read that it is a three step or so process of going over it. Also, I am assuming that a liquid polishing compound would be added during one of the final stages, correct? What do you recommend?

Yes, I have searched, and searched, and searched, but I would still like some input as to what each of have found most effective (pads, size, etc.). I can post a picture of my paint if you would like.

Thank you!

[WOT Bimmer]

Its a Monaco blue by the way.

[PTek Will]

get a 5" backing plate with 5.5" pads and maybe 3" bp with 3-4" pads for smaller areas. meguiars m105/m205 is a great combo. i've heard and seen good things with menzerna sip and sf but haven't tried it personally.

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

Hello All,

I have been doing what I call a "detail" on my car just about weekly since I bought it, but I think it is about time to do a real detail on it. I usually wash it by hand, blow dry with the leaf blower, dry the rest by hand with a waffle weave micro, and then wax or detail with dodo juice. I have noticed, especially since winter, that the car has a lot of little scratches/swirls in the paint when you look at it up close. It also has a fair amount of water spots that can only be seen up close, so I think claying it would be a good idea too.

I was considering getting the porter cable 7424xp, and I was wondering what pads/size you would recommend for it. I believe I read that it is a three step or so process of going over it. Also, I am assuming that a liquid polishing compound would be added during one of the final stages, correct? What do you recommend?

Yes, I have searched, and searched, and searched, but I would still like some input as to what each of have found most effective (pads, size, etc.). I can post a picture of my paint if you would like.

Thank you!

A 5" backing plate with 5 1/2" pads is ideal for the PC. The process involves in removing the defects varies from car to car (single stage to multi-stage polishing). Generally, darker the paint....the more steps it takes to get there. The severity of the defects is also a major factor in this equation.

People have a tendency to grab the largest hammer they could find for a job because they feel that it will be quicker. This is simply not the case. Always start with the least aggressive approach and work your way up.

You will need several pads (Cutting, Polishing, Finishing) and it is a good idea to have 3-4 of each. It is good to have several polishes (aggressive, medium, fine) but for most people it is not necessary. A medium polish like Menzerna PF2500 should remove most moderate defects and SF4000 should take care of the fine swirls as well as the water spots. But...... you never really know for sure until you do a test spot. A Swirl Remover like Wolfgang TSR is a good alternative.

Product is important to a certain degree but don't get too hung up on it. Everyone will have his own favorites. Good techniques could overcome poor products but no products in the world could overcome poor techniques. Prior to actually doing the machine polishing, read up on the techniques involve. DA Polishing is not rocket science and anyone can do it but it requires patience. Don't expect a show car finish first time out since this is not realistic. Don't expect this to be a quick 2-3 hours project because it won't be.

Good Luck.

[Otruba_843]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

A 5" backing plate with 5 1/2" pads is ideal for the PC. The process involves in removing the defects varies from car to car (single stage to multi-stage polishing). Generally, darker the paint....the more steps it takes to get there. The severity of the defects is also a major factor in this equation.

People have a tendency to grab the largest hammer they could find for a job because they feel that it will be quicker. This is simply not the case. Always start with the least aggressive approach and work your way up.

You will need several pads (Cutting, Polishing, Finishing) and it is a good idea to have 3-4 of each. It is good to have several polishes (aggressive, medium, fine) but for most people it is not necessary. A medium polish like Menzerna PF2500 should remove most moderate defects and SF4000 should take care of the fine swirls as well as the water spots. But...... you never really know for sure until you do a test spot. A Swirl Remover like Wolfgang TSR is a good alternative.

Product is important to a certain degree but don't get too hung up on it. Everyone will have his own favorites. Good techniques could overcome poor products but no products in the world could overcome poor techniques. Prior to actually doing the machine polishing, read up on the techniques involve. DA Polishing is not rocket science and anyone can do it but it requires patience. Don't expect a show car finish first time out since this is not realistic. Don't expect this to be a quick 2-3 hours project because it won't be.

Good Luck.

My Monaco Blue was in pretty good condition with some minor scratches here and there and light to moderate swirling. I also had some big etched in waters spots. I remember reading some where that someone said the clear coat on this color is soft. It does mar and swirl somewhat easy, but removing defects is a pain. Wolfgang Total swirl remover (pretty close to PF2500) on a PC with an orange light cutting pad on speed 6 was removing 50-60% of the defects. Like psnt1ol said, this is not a few hour project. The prep work took me 5.5 hours before I could even get to do a test spot and the compound/polishing is what takes the longest. A very thorough 2-step correction probably takes at least 20 hours to complete. The vibrations from the cutting pad gets old really quick until you get to use a softer pad.

[WOT Bimmer]

Awesome info guys! Thank you.

What type of cutting pad would you recommend? I'm thinking about skipping the claying and going straight to the cutting process and then pollishing with Menzerna PF2500.

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

Awesome info guys! Thank you.

What type of cutting pad would you recommend? I'm thinking about skipping the claying and going straight to the cutting process and then pollishing with Menzerna PF2500.

Claying is very important. Unless you are compounding with wool on a rotary, the above surface contaminants will be not be remove by a foam cutting pad. The contaminants ultimately will both interfere with your process and minimize your expected result since a foam pad will simply skim over them.

To make the claying process easier, you might also want to look into using IronX or Trix on the paint prior to claying.

Like I said earlier, you never really know for sure which pad and product combination will work. Do a test spot and this will determine if your approach/process is the one that would yield the best result. If possible, check your work against a good light source after a IPA wipe down.


As far as pads are concern....... look into the Lake Country Hydro-tech line of pads. Very simple system. The line offer 3 pads (Cyan-cutting, Tangerine-polishing, Crimson-finishing). If you are using a PC, get the low profile version 7/8" ( the thinner pads with lower mass will give the machine more leverage ).


good Luck.

[WOT Bimmer]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

Claying is very important. Unless you are compounding with wool on a rotary, the above surface contaminants will be not be remove by a foam cutting pad. The contaminants ultimately will both interfere with your process and minimize your expected result since a foam pad will simply skim over them.

To make the claying process easier, you might also want to look into using IronX or Trix on the paint prior to claying.

Like I said earlier, you never really know for sure which pad and product combination will work. Do a test spot and this will determine if your approach/process is the one that would yield the best result. If possible, check your work against a good light source after a IPA wipe down.

good Luck.

I've used ironX on my wheels before, so I will plan on doing that and them clay. Thanks for the tip.

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

I've used ironX on my wheels before, so I will plan on doing that and them clay. Thanks for the tip.

you are welcome.

As far as pads are concern....... look into the Lake Country Hydro-tech line of pads. Very simple system. The line offer 3 pads (Cyan-cutting, Tangerine-polishing, Crimson-finishing). If you are using a PC, get the low profile version 7/8" ( the thinner pads with lower mass will give the machine more leverage ).

For more aggressiveness, MF pads are the next step but this is a separate discussion for a later time.

[WOT Bimmer]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

you are welcome.

As far as pads are concern....... look into the Lake Country Hydro-tech line of pads. Very simple system. The line offer 3 pads (Cyan-cutting, Tangerine-polishing, Crimson-finishing). If you are using a PC, get the low profile version 7/8" ( the thinner pads with lower mass will give the machine more leverage ).

For more aggressiveness, MF pads are the next step but this is a separate discussion for a later time.

If I am planning on doing a cutting stage with a cyan LC hydro-tech and then finishing with a crimson pad (I am going to try it without the tangerine mid-stage first), 1) how much of the menzerna pf2500 do you think I will need for the cutting, and 2) how much do you think I will need of the menzerna finish (http://www.amazon.com/32-oz-Menzerna...gy_auto_text_y) for the final polish? I want to have at least a rough idea before I order it.

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

If I am planning on doing a cutting stage with a cyan LC hydro-tech and then finishing with a crimson pad (I am going to try it without the tangerine mid-stage first), 1) how much of the menzerna pf2500 do you think I will need for the cutting, and 2) how much do you think I will need of the menzerna finish (http://www.amazon.com/32-oz-Menzerna...gy_auto_text_y) for the final polish? I want to have at least a rough idea before I order it.

You should consider testing out the tangerine pad first prior in jumping to a cutting pad. Use the least aggressive approach to get the job done. Don't start off by grabbing the biggest hammer you own.

4 to 6 oz of products should be enough for doing the entire vehicle. For your first time out...you might use a bit more.

It looks like I have to redo my car as well. I took my car in for service today. I told them not to wash it. They washed it and now I have the dealer installed swirls option on my car. Not a single panel escape the wrath.

I guess this is what I will be doing on the next available weekend. If you live closer to me, I would invite you to come over to witness the process first hand.

[WOT Bimmer]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

You should consider testing out the tangerine pad first prior in jumping to a cutting pad. Use the least aggressive approach to get the job done. Don't start off by grabbing the biggest hammer you own.

4 to 6 oz of products should be enough for doing the entire vehicle. For your first time out...you might use a bit more.

It looks like I have to redo my car as well. I took my car in for service today. I told them not to wash it. They washed it and now I have the dealer installed swirls option on my car. Not a single panel escape the wrath.

I guess this is what I will be doing on the next available weekend. If you live closer to me, I would invite you to come over to witness the process first hand.

I'm surprised that I wouldn't need more product. I will go ahead and get some then.

I really hate the dealer washes, although, my dealer just installed a new touchless wash. I have yet to try that. Hand washing is the way to go if you can spare the time.

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

I'm surprised that I wouldn't need more product. I will go ahead and get some then.

I really hate the dealer washes, although, my dealer just installed a new touchless wash. I have yet to try that. Hand washing is the way to go if you can spare the time.

Once the pad is properly primed, 3-4 pea size worth of product on the pad is all you need per 2' x 2' section. For the PC, you might want to shrink the section a bit to somewhere between 1' x 1' and 1.5' by 1.5'.

Like I said... I told them not to but they did anyway. I think I will have some signs made and tape them to the car next time.

You are right about hand washing... I tried to teach that (2 buckets handwash) to every client I meet. Some listens and some don't.

[Turbo Tinkerer]

I think the Griot's is the same price as the PC and it's just such a better machine that it's a no brainer.

[WOT Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Turbo Tinkerer

I think the Griot's is the same price as the PC and it's just such a better machine that it's a no brainer.

I thought the PC was just about as user-friendly as you could get.... ?

[Otruba_843]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

I thought the PC was just about as user-friendly as you could get.... ?

The Griots Garage D/A is just as easy to use but has more correction power.

[WOT Bimmer]

Here is what I have (or will have once it arrives), and the process I will be using:

Wash:

- IronX entire vehicle, rinse
- Gilmour Foam Gun
- Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss
- MF towel for washing
- Rinse

Dry:

- Blow dry with leaf blower
- Dry remaining water with waffle weave MF

Clay:

- DI Accessories Fine Grade Clay 100g
- Poorboy's World Spray & Wipe (S&W) (clay lubricant)

Polish:

- PC 7424XP
- 5.5" Lake Country Pads from DI - Tangerine > Crimson; Cyan if needed (on deeper scratches probably)
- Menzerna PF2500 for first stage polishing
- Menzerna Super Finish Polish SF 4000 16oz for final polish

Wax:

- Dodo Juice Purple Haze Soft Wax from DI - 30 ml (bought two (2) 30ml containers to test it before buying the 250ml canister)
- Apply with MF
- Buff off with MF

Rubber Treatment:

- 303 Aerospace Protectant from DI - 16 oz


I bought a lot of the liquids from DI (Detailed Image). They have 25% off all regularly priced items right now.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions/comments on what I am planning so far. I will probably start the process later this week once I receive everything.

Here are a couple pictures of my current paint scratches:

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

Here is what I have (or will have once it arrives), and the process I will be using:

Wash:

- IronX entire vehicle, rinse
- Gilmour Foam Gun
- Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss
- MF towel for washing
- Rinse

Dry:

- Blow dry with leaf blower
- Dry remaining water with waffle weave MF

Clay:

- DI Accessories Fine Grade Clay 100g
- Poorboy's World Spray & Wipe (S&W) (clay lubricant)

Polish:

- PC 7424XP
- 5.5" Lake Country Pads from DI - Tangerine > Crimson; Cyan if needed (on deeper scratches probably)
- Menzerna PF2500 for first stage polishing
- Menzerna Super Finish Polish SF 4000 16oz for final polish

Wax:

- Dodo Juice Purple Haze Soft Wax from DI - 30 ml (bought two (2) 30ml containers to test it before buying the 250ml canister)
- Apply with MF
- Buff off with MF

Rubber Treatment:

- 303 Aerospace Protectant from DI - 16 oz


I bought a lot of the liquids from DI (Detailed Image). They have 25% off all regularly priced items right now.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions/comments on what I am planning so far. I will probably start the process later this week once I receive everything.

Here are a couple pictures of my current paint scratches:

Attachment 880116

Attachment 880117

It looks like you are pretty much set to go. I do believe the Hydro tech pads that DI sells are 1.25" thick and not the low profile one I was referring to but they will still work.

You could save a bit of time in your process if you wash your car first then apply IronX follow with a good rinse. Move the car indoor immediately to start the next phrase. Your car don't have to be bone dry for the claying process so just go over it with a waffle weave MF to save even more time. Blow Drying is good as part of a maintenance wash process but since you will be buffing out the car anyway.....it's really not necessary.

I am pretty sure you could apply the Wax with your DA. The PC is a great wax spreader (Crimson Pad). Your goal here is to lay down a thin layer. A thick layer is just a waste of product since most of it will be taken off later at the removal process. If you like.... think about laying several thin layers with a bit of time in between for the wax to cure.

Take your time since this is not a one day project. And most importantly....Have Fun. Good Luck.

[Otruba_843]

Whatever you do, PLEASE don't put 303 on your door seals. I honestly found the 530 gsm grey towels from AG to much better for drying. I still get swirls from a waffle weave. What pad are you using for SF4000? IronX after you wash and dry. Rinse the car after IronX and go straight to claying without drying. You shouldn't have wasted your money on the Dodo's. There are a lot better waxes out there for a lot less.

[WOT Bimmer]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

It looks like you are pretty much set to go. I do believe the Hydro tech pads that DI sells are 1.25" thick and not the low profile one I was referring to but they will still work.

You could save a bit of time in your process if you wash your car first then apply IronX follow with a good rinse. Move the car indoor immediately to start the next phrase. Your car don't have to be bone dry for the claying process so just go over it with a waffle weave MF to save even more time. Blow Drying is good as part of a maintenance wash process but since you will be buffing out the car anyway.....it's really not necessary.

I am pretty sure you could apply the Wax with your DA. The PC is a great wax spreader (Crimson Pad). Your goal here is to lay down a thin layer. A thick layer is just a waste of product since most of it will be taken off later at the removal process. If you like.... think about laying several thin layers with a bit of time in between for the wax to cure.

Take your time since this is not a one day project. And most importantly....Have Fun. Good Luck.

Good tips. Thank you!

Would I buff the wax off between layers, or put one layer on top of the other?

[WOT Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Otruba_843

Whatever you do, PLEASE don't put 303 on your door seals. I honestly found the 530 gsm grey towels from AG to much better for drying. I still get swirls from a waffle weave. What pad are you using for SF4000? IronX after you wash and dry. Rinse the car after IronX and go straight to claying without drying. You shouldn't have wasted your money on the Dodo's. There are a lot better waxes out there for a lot less.

What's wrong with the 303?

I find that the waffle weave puts swirls in as well. That's why I like to use the glass sheeting method and blow drying, but I like the idea of claying while it is still wet.

I will be putting the sf4000 on with the crimson pad most likely.

[jbnery6465]

Originally Posted by WOT Bimmer

Good tips. Thank you!

Would I buff the wax off between layers, or put one layer on top of the other?

Yes you would buff off the wax before each layer. Depending on the wax, there may be a "cure" time which is very different from the "dry" time. "Dry" time is when the wax comes to a haze and is ready to be buffed off. "Cure" time is the time after buffing that the wax will settle onto the surface to harden and bond properly onto the paint. For optimal results, it's best to let the wax "cure" before adding additional layers. Or does this apply to sealants only? Can anyone confirm?