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The Black Box* Must Read
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03-10-2007, 07:37 PM | #67 | |
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03-10-2007, 07:45 PM | #68 | |
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After re-reading my post I think calling Federico dishonest was too strong of a statement. The truth is he really was not under obligation to send me the X-pipe since it was JM who I paid for it, and whom Federico sold it to. But after it became obvious that JM was ignoring my calls, Federico did acknowledge that it had been paid for and agreed to send it to me and I never got it. For all I know maybe JM eventually picked it up or got a refund but all I know is I was the one left on the short end and I was disappointed he didn't step up after saying he would. I can say the quality of the Silencer was excellent with great sound, super strong construction and great weight savings. From what I can tell The quality of RDSport products has always been excellent. I'll never know how good that X-pipe would have been but I'm guessing it would have made my M3 rasp louder than a chainsaw since even with the one stock resonator the damn things are raspy |
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03-10-2007, 08:00 PM | #69 | |
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So I guess no one is going to reply to this ???? |
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03-10-2007, 08:07 PM | #70 | |
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03-10-2007, 08:10 PM | #71 |
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You'll have to search back through some old posts, but Shiv already stated why he decided to go with a different approach for the BMW. From what I gathered, the Xede was rather limited as far as adding additional features, hence, the change.
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03-10-2007, 08:59 PM | #72 | ||||
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For instance, in the BMW, we wanted to leave the XEDE powered on all the time for various diagnostic control reasons. However, after a week, we found that it would overhead and lead to hard starting issues. So we had to wire it up to switched power which was less than ideal. With the PROcede, there is no such overheating issues and we implemented it the way we wanted it to. That is just one example. But it's easy to verify. Another issue was that the Xede required a more complicated firmware updating process. One that required having to give one of the pins constant 12 volts (to get the Xede into 'boot' mode) while cycling Xede power on/off/on. In the case of the BMW, where the ECU remains powered for some time after you turn the ignition off, this proved to be a problem. With the PROcede, we simply upload the new firmware file just like we would a tuning map. Again, easy to verify. Although I don't think any of the current bmw tuners using the Xede have had to do this just yet Another shortcoming was that there were 4 different Xede units that were not interchangeable. One was meant to be used for voltage based maf sensors. Another for freq based MAF sensors. Another for inductive CAS pick-up. Another for hall effect CAS. With the PROcede, we made sure that the unit was universal. This was addressed at the basic design level, allowing us to develop one single product, not 4. Another issue was that we ran out of digital inputs/outputs. While, I'm sure this will eventually be addressed with a hardware revision, the current Xede hardware could never control VANOS or defeat speed limiters. You tell me if those are desired features. I could go on but I don't think it's entirely necessary, is it? Quote:
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Shiv Last edited by OpenFlash; 03-10-2007 at 09:30 PM.. |
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03-11-2007, 01:05 AM | #73 | ||||
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A piggiback unit is really a quick and dirty (i.e. cheap) solution to get good horsepower increase for little money. Does it work? Absolutely. Technically sound? Hardly. If you are setting out to manipulate anything more than timing, bost and, possibly, rev limiter, then the proper way to do it is to get into the Siemes DME and rewrite the data maps, allow it to read the actual voltages from all the sensors, and condition the "output signal" via reprogramming. |
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03-11-2007, 01:50 AM | #74 | |||||
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You are missing something on every single point you are trying to make. See below:
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Regards, shiv |
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03-11-2007, 05:57 AM | #75 |
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Oh, dang, Shiv pwned TQ Sorry TQ, but I think Shiv may know a bit more than you in regards to tunning... so before you try dissing someone (or more importantly, a Company) please get all your facts/info correct
BTW, Shiv didn't even have to justify/explain himself to you, but he did so, in order to show BMW owners why he decided to ditch the Xede and go w/ the ProCede instead. GOOD INFO Now I know how Shiv removed the speed limiter once he switched to ProCede, haha Shiv, lol, but I'm really looking forward to AA's results... even though they may also be using the Xede =/ But in the end, it all comes down to price, power, reliability, and customer service |
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03-11-2007, 06:50 AM | #76 | ||||||
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Warning....Long answer below!
I tell you what, they call me the old bloke at XEDE and it takes me a while to jump into comment on forums, but anyway..... There’s been a lot of comment on this forum about how the PROcede was the newest bestest thing from Vishnu since the XEDE. (Personally, I like how they kept the capitalisation from the XEDE brand and the "cede" sound in the name) I usually just sit by and watch things like this unfold and let my products' results (through various tuners) speak for themselves but here is where it has to stop. I can’t let this pass without my 2cents worth. Lets see if I can address these in order… Quote:
Look, as of Dec 31 2006, Vishnu ceased to have sole US distribution rights to the XEDE product. That was a business decision for us at ChipTorque who design and manufacture the XEDE. I can accept a business decision by Vishnu about a change of brand/supplier related to that. That is, as others have said all over this forum, just good business competition. When Shiv (who should know better) wants to parade any technical shortcoming in our product, you'll get me to bite. :mad: :mad: Quote:
The XEDE is not designed to be left on for more than 170hours continuiously, nor would I suggest that any current drawing device (PROcede or any other) be left on when the vehicle has powered down. Due diligence in R&D of the 335i ECU will provide the correct method of interfacing with it, rather than leaving a unit powered up all the time. Quote:
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The 335i XEDE has at any one time - 2 potential Crank/VANOS In/Out Channels, 3 Analogue In/Out Channels, 1 Frequency In and 2 Additional High Current Drive outputs for Wastegate (Boost) Control or Methanol injection etc. - AND - An additional input for Dual Map banks - for Race Gas and Normal Gas or anything else you might want Dual maps for as standard. It already works! You don't need to wait for some vapourware remote switch method. It's in the standard XEDE! After that, there's special features that we can implement just for BMW customers if needed. I even went to the Vishnu PROcede website to see if I was missing something. I looked in their installation video, but no, they're still only using 1 Crank signal In/Out, 1 Analogue signal In/Out and 1 Current drive signal. Was that 2 channels and a driver??? Opps, there's power and ground as well that’s 2 more pins and I guess 3 for comms like an XEDE does (Sorry, my Bad! - Nice Video though). I had made no mistake, the PROcede install instruction and wiring harness show clearly, it is using a half of the pins in an XEDE. IMHO – half of what an XEDE can do standing on it's head. At least if there really is a plan to add any other features to the PROcede, tell these good people that they’ll have to get a new harness etc. etc. to go with any new feature that’s added. Quote:
Business is business but don’t blame the XEDE. Lachlan Riddel Techncial Director www.chiptorque.com www.xede.com.au |
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03-11-2007, 06:55 AM | #77 |
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TQ has a total of 3 posts. I disagreed with all of his points. Any tech savvy person will pay attention to the new product they've purchased and readily accept updates when available.
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03-11-2007, 07:11 AM | #78 | |
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The piggy-back method is functional and easy to install/remove and will provide the best value for money for the largest number of BMW drivers. If it becomes apparent that there really is some tangible value in adjusting the VANOS on the 335i, I'm sure you'll be able to find a high quality piggy-back unit that will do it appropriately. I'd suggest an XEDE (especially since you have one already.) Cheers Lachlan Riddel Techncial Director www.chiptorque.com www.xede.com.au |
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03-11-2007, 08:14 AM | #79 |
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First the ringers showed up. Thread was or became a vehicle to bait Shiv into responding. Then the big gun decloaks and opens fire. Thread is now a full-bore pissing contest between two former business buddies. Other than providing the same entertainment value as a train wreck, most of us couldn't care less which box is used - as long as it works.
If, as you say, there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the two boxes, the question is "what is the real reason Shiv dumped your product and is classing it as second rate?" Did you go up on your prices? Did you say something about his mama? Or worse yet, did you tell him he couldn't tune his way out of a wet paper bag? Only you and Shiv know the real reason. You can either let us in on it or you and Shiv can continue with your pissing contest. The members and lurkers will at least get what we get from most news channels: Heavy entertainment value with litte usable news. |
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03-11-2007, 08:20 AM | #80 | |
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335i space, coral/gray poplar, step, loaded, but with no AS, AC or rear shade. Front lip painted and installed and springs going on this week. pics coming soon.
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03-11-2007, 08:51 AM | #81 | |
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What happens if you leave it on for too long? It starts wigging out and screws up your engine? |
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03-11-2007, 09:07 AM | #82 | |
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This thread is about another tuner using an Xede-like device and getting a lil more then half the HP & TQ gains that Shiv gets. So, we HAVE seen "what happens on here with other tuners starting to use the XEDE product in this wonderful car. " |
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03-11-2007, 10:51 AM | #83 |
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03-11-2007, 10:57 AM | #84 |
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This is more informative than the typical threads here. Good to finally discuss about piggy back upgrade paths, such as how to use their inputs and if altering vanos is the way to go. Keep the info flowing! Thanks!
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03-11-2007, 11:38 AM | #85 | |
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So, after all this, is the PROceed just a rebadged Haltech Interceptor? Not that it really matters, but shouldn't we expect more transparency from our vendors if they are, indeed, using someone else's platform? Do I detect a pattern of behaviour? |
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03-11-2007, 11:56 AM | #87 |
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http://www.haltech.com/interceptor.htm
sells for ~ $845 USD |
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03-11-2007, 12:15 PM | #88 | ||
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ALL u new posters (TQ)(who probaly is who he says) can talk all the shit u want against shiv but who still stands on TOP hmmmmm Your lucky shiv even responded!! Im sure you had many phone conversations of his requests and u obviusly couldnt deliver what he wanted! So he dumped your product and is know working with Scotty!! (your competitiion) GET OVER IT. SO WHAT IF its licsenced to a sydney company! like he cant make his own software? Oh wait Im pretty sure he already DID!!! Quote:
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