[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

back to the original topic,

Would it make sense for @Shiv@vishnu and @Vargasturbotech to make a post on here to include everything that is "required" to run 700 whp. A simple clean post, no BS. Then the OP can copy and paste back TTT. Which means, this is exactly what was on the car when we got this xxx whp and xxx wtq.


IMO lets just wait till VTT is complete with their testing, thus Shiv has more time to tune as well. Agree on a date, post and compare. June 1st sound good?

This back and forth has got to be exhausting for you two, aren't you tired of it? To be honest, me as a potential customer doesn't care who did it first, I want facts and results, no BS no saying "my car can do that" but no proof.

let's do the right thing.

-vince

I agree 1000% I'd like to know a rough exact dollar amount to get a stock N54 running smoothly at these numbers.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

back to the original topic,

Would it make sense for @Shiv@vishnu and @Vargasturbotech to make a post on here to include everything that is "required" to run 700 whp. A simple clean post, no BS. Then the OP can copy and paste back TTT. Which means, this is exactly what was on the car when we got this xxx whp and xxx wtq.


IMO lets just wait till VTT is complete with their testing, thus Shiv has more time to tune as well. Agree on a date, post and compare. June 1st sound good?

This back and forth has got to be exhausting for you two, aren't you tired of it? To be honest, me as a potential customer doesn't care who did it first, I want facts and results, no BS no saying "my car can do that" but no proof.

let's do the right thing.

-vince

I agree with you in most respects. However, I think the purpose of this discussion is not just to address what is required to make 700WHP. But rather explain the differences in how that power is made (area under the curve, boost required, etc,.) The rest (cost, installation, etc,.) is all secondary IMHO.

Shiv

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The rest (cost, installation, etc,.) is all secondary IMHO.

Shiv

Not for me its not I want to be told x,y,z = awesomeness I'd throw down $$$$$ for those numbers, but I sure am not going to wonder into the unknown as a buyer and hear oh but you need that oh and I forgot you need that lol.

Love the 700 you pulled though MAD PROPS

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

back to the original topic,

Would it make sense for @Shiv@vishnu and @Vargasturbotech to make a post on here to include everything that is "required" to run 700 whp. A simple clean post, no BS. Then the OP can copy and paste back TTT. Which means, this is exactly what was on the car when we got this xxx whp and xxx wtq.


IMO lets just wait till VTT is complete with their testing, thus Shiv has more time to tune as well. Agree on a date, post and compare. June 1st sound good?

This back and forth has got to be exhausting for you two, aren't you tired of it? To be honest, me as a potential customer doesn't care who did it first, I want facts and results, no BS no saying "my car can do that" but no proof.

let's do the right thing.

-vince

It would be quite unfair towards Vargas as he has not even got there. Let's try to be fair.

[OpenFlash]

Regarding performance: I'm still eager to get Tony's take on the significant difference in spool-up and power. I think one problem we, as a community, are still facing is a general lack of understanding when it comes to interpreting dyno graphs. Some people still just look at the peak number and don't quite understand how the shape of the curves translate to how the car performs in the real world. Without that basic understanding, one isn't even in the position to do a cost/benefit analysis because they don't understand the benefits. So talking about this is important IMHO.

Regarding price: I'll be happy to add up the total cost for the kit on CaptainInsano's car if Tony is willing to do the same. Right down to the fuel in the tank Tony?

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Regarding price: I'll be happy to add up the total cost for the kit on CaptainInsano's car if Tony is willing to do the same. Right down to the fuel in the tank Tony?

I WOULD LOVE IT. And eagerly await it

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I agree with you in most respects. However, I think the purpose of this discussion is not just to address what is required to make 700WHP. But rather explain the differences in how that power is made (area under the curve, boost required, etc,.) The rest (cost, installation, etc,.) is all secondary IMHO.

Shiv

I would agree Shiv, your comment #1 (main point of the thread) my comment #2 (secondary point of the thread), but would you agree both are important from a consumer's perspective as well, thus is fully necessary to compare both?

as for your comment above regarding the "lack of understanding" put it in context as part of the compare.

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

It would be quite unfair towards Vargas as he has not even got there. Let's try to be fair.

as in, if Vargas didn't reach the date goal I put? if that is what you were referring to, that was strictly hypothetical. Just making a point to agree on when testing is complete that a thorough comparison is what we as consumers are seeking.

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

I would agree Shiv, your comment #1 (main point of the thread) my comment #2 (secondary point of the thread), but would you agree both are important from a consumer's perspective as well, thus is fully necessary to compare both?

This is true for the consumer, simple research will yield the answers you are looking for, however I do agree that a price comparison in this thread would be beneficial to all reading, it is a thread that deals with comparisons, while technical comparisons are more so the reason we are reading this, price comparisons should also be fair game, especially since both kits are being advertised, and there are a lot of curious people on this board looking for someone to lay out a stock to 700whp n54 in terms of pricing.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

but would you agree both are important from a consumer's perspective as well, thus is fully necessary to compare both?

as for your comment above regarding the "lack of understanding" put it in context as part of the compare.

Thats why its important to me. I know what it costs to make JB4 power with the maps, Cobb power, dinan power ( ), I can look at it all and decide whats best for me and if its worth it. Which bugs me about both these cause its so awesome

[idspeedskater]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

... there are a lot of curious people on this board looking for someone to lay out a stock to 700whp n54 in terms of pricing.

This is what I did with my Xi, went from just having a procede and everything else bone stock to working with FFTEC and Shiv to get the ST kit in. If people are curious what I went through and what was needed PM me and I can give a high-level run down of what components i needed to upgrade and the overall cost to me (if I get inundated with PMs I will get back to everyone in time after work).

You can also just look through the FFTEC site and add up the component pieces they suggest and get inputs on reasonable install hours and figure out that cost. I think we were within about $500 of my back of the envelope budget calculations I used to negotiate with my wife before

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

This is true for the consumer, simple research will yield the answers you are looking for, however I do agree that a price comparison in this thread would be beneficial to all reading, it is a thread that deals with comparisons, while technical comparisons are more so the reason we are reading this, price comparisons should also be fair game, especially since both kits are being advertised, and there are a lot of curious people on this board looking for someone to lay out a stock to 700whp n54 in terms of pricing.

I would like to state that price does add points to my decision but ultimately isn't a line in the sand. for others to follow i hope that isn't their deciding factor as well. I think 1 of my points was the fact Tony and shiv kept going back and forth on what was required and what it costs, so just trying to clear that up by having the vendors put it in context themselves.

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

I would like to see some 91 oct and 93 octane pump gas ONLY comparisons.

Still no 91 runs here, yet you post a 100 octane + meth overlay on the VTT beta product?

Seriously, what is the holdup if the car was on the dyno yesterday?

Full disclosure please.

[cupertinosteve]

Originally Posted by MisterEm

Still no 91 runs here, yet you post a 100 octane + meth overlay on the VTT beta product?

Seriously, what is the holdup if the car was on the dyno yesterday?

Full disclosure please.

woohoo ... i'm back. I can see there was some action, but only a handful of meaningful posts.

@misterem - i seriously doubt there is a conspiracy on either side for not dyno'ing 91 octane. I think that will come in time, i think both vendor are interested in showcasing their best offering, which means more than 91 octane and meth.

I'd eventually settle for a 91+meth comparison. I usually get 4-5 tanks of gas for a gallon of meth (based on my driving patterns), so its realistic for me for daily usage.

I'm now looking to build a 135 6MT for the track ... I could go either way (twins or single), so that's why i started this discussion thread.

[cupertinosteve]

corrected my first post ... Vargas was running 96.5 octane.

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by cupertinosteve

woohoo ... i'm back. I can see there was some action, but only a handful of meaningful posts.

@misterem - i seriously doubt there is a conspiracy on either side for not dyno'ing 91 octane. I think that will come in time, i think both vendor are interested in showcasing their best offering, which means more than 91 octane and meth.

I'd eventually settle for a 91+meth comparison. I usually get 4-5 tanks of gas for a gallon of meth (based on my driving patterns), so its realistic for me for daily usage.

I'm now looking to build a 135 6MT for the track ... I could go either way (twins or single), so that's why i started this discussion thread.

I'd consider either a 1M or doing the 1M wide body to be able to put down the power

[cupertinosteve]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

I'd consider either a 1M or doing the 1M wide body to be able to put down the power

1Ms are too hard to find and the one I found, they want stupid money for it. A used 135 6MT is nearly $25K less than the 1M. That is a decent budget for modifications.

And if I ball it up at the track, it cost less to replace. Some wiser tracknuts told me, if you can't leave it at the track, you probably should have brought it.

[MisterEm]

I doubt there is a conspiracy either Cupertino. However, in this *DISCUSSION* thread it would only be prudent to compare like fuel with like fuel as methanol systems are not created equal. Since both companies are based in the Bay Area 91 octane seems logical, no?

A 91 octane comparison with any of the ST variants versus the VTT stage 3 91 dyno would be most excellent information.

I like data. Not just hope, or "trust me."

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by MisterEm

I doubt there is a conspiracy either Cupertino. However, in this *DISCUSSION* thread it would only be prudent to compare like fuel with like fuel as methanol systems are not created equal. Since both companies are based in the Bay Area 91 octane seems logical, no?

A 91 octane comparison with any of the ST variants versus the VTT stage 3 91 dyno would be most excellent information.

I like data. Not just hope, or "trust me."

91 oct, no meth dyno:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=829687

Enjoy!
Shiv

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

91 oct, no meth dyno:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=829687

Enjoy!
Shiv

Thank you. This is a fair apples to apples comparison.

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

+1

I think the issue of value should be removed from discussion. Especially since the twins takes twice as much labor to install. Let's just focus on functionality and performance at this point. Anyone looking to make this kind of power probably isn't a budget shopper to begin with

I disagree. Cost is a big factor.

Yes we have money. No we aren't just throwing it away without comparison.

[chiefsotos]

I just saw Shiv made a run in just 91 pump gas.
That's very nice numbers with stable torgue.
I also know that Vargas is on initial stage and have a lot of room to play.

I am only interesting in hp with pump gas because when a car is a daily driven, such as my bmw, this is the gas that i use.
I think tuners (mean Shiv and Vargas for now) should consider that and experiment in which levels, in pump gas, the car should perform in daily driving.
It's nice to have a fast car but also very safe.
Some friends of mine are in honda s2000 comunity with big turbo kits(6466) and we discussed a lot of things together.
Although the stock honda motor can handle 500hp, easily, in daily long use, the aluminium block saws it's weackness.
The cylinder can easily be deformed after some thousands klms with boost above 22psi. This is a weakness that can be found only after some thousands kilometers of driving.
That's why they put, in their aluminium engine, cast iron sleeves block.
The upgraded forge pistons and rods maybe be necessary, maybe not, it's depend on how good you can have the engine temperatures down, but the cylinder deformation(especially in the center of them) is very common when the boost exceed some level.
And 25 psi is a big boost.
I will also be very happy to know, with certainty, that the fuel is more than enough in these power levels without the use of methanol.
Ok, maximum power for dragstrips or race should have meth or (and) race fuel but nothing better from daily, stable, safe big horse power car in PUMP GAS