[bmstyle71]

Originally Posted by TMNT

Plus, the loan says that if GM & Chrysler can not show viability by March 31st 2009 then they will have to repay the full amount of the loan within 30 days.

RIGHT because money is laying around all over the place with them. They're expected to pay back 17 billion dollars which THEY NEEDED TO SURVIVE in 3 months if they don't show viability? If they had that money they wouldn't be needing it. Bush is sitting there going 'no no I can't go out peacefully...how can I fuck these people up more....HOW?'

[The_AMG_Hunter]

I know something that could make millions of jobs available and also boost the economy..... The Legalization of Marijuana

[aznshrek88]

The bailout is retarded, yes we needed it, but the funding should have been severely restricted. When top management feels the need to take private planes and continue to waste money while the economy and their companies are both at rock bottom; it really shows their character and discipline as leaders, which is extremely poor. I know they needed it for a couple of reasons (current jobs and pensions), but besides that FUCK them, and their bailout. How are the other auto makers making it through then? Good design, good cars? Innovation? There's a ton of ways to make a good company and US automakers are only making it worse on themselves asking for more money. I think they need a modern Lee Iacocoa.

[The_AMG_Hunter]

They should of just let Toyota buy GM

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Dammmittt

Between the 3 companies, there are over half a million jobs at stake around the world. And with the state of the economy, there's no way to regenerate those jobs, especially with new companies that would need a lot of cash to start.

So, do they deserve it? Of course not. But can we just let them go bankrupt? No, we can't do that either.

Our economy in Canada has a huge reliance on the US car companies. I am very happy President Bush acted...something the Congress and Senate couldn't do. This is going to save many jobs in US and Canada.

I am a firm fiscal conservative but the other option is just too hard. Did the car companies deserve a bailout? Heck no. But in a world of lesser evils, I much rather have these guys get $17B and hold them accountable to a recover plan then give $400B to the banks where no one seems accountable.

This is going to save jobs.

The UAW had better play ball....

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Alias

In order to receive the money, I think all three CEO's should have to step down.

Mulally shouldn't as he has only been CEO of Ford for 2 years. Going to take longer then that to restructure a company like the auto industry. Plus, he proved competent running Boeing.

Originally Posted by e90_DriftStar

They should of just let Toyota buy GM

And inherit GM's debt? I don't think so! Plus, Toyota is estimated to lose $1 billion this year. They have been hit too by this recession. It is just they have the money to ride it out where the Big 3 don't. GM already has cut $9 billion+ in costs and if GM can ride out 2009, they have the possibility of making a profit in 2010 once the new UAW contracts take effect.

[pmeloche]

It's actually $13.4B not $17.4B. GM gets $9.4B and Chrysler gets $4B. Nothing for Ford?

[The_AMG_Hunter]

Originally Posted by pmeloche

It's actually $13.4B not $17.4B. GM gets $9.4B and Chrysler gets $4B. Nothing for Ford?

Ford Sucks

[Bobby_Light]

Washington is run by idiots. When will they let the economic forest fire happen? Our economy needs a cleansing depserately. We just keep feeding it shit which inhibits it from correcting itself. Why is there no uproar from the people that we are becoming a socialist country????? Everyone is asleep.

If they don't let poorly run companies fail, these bailout will never cease. The inevitable severe economic downturn, the likes that this country has never seen, will continue to be delayed only making this economic tsunami grow astronomically bigger. They are trying to shoot the gun until there are no more bullets left. They will eventually run out of ammunition.

Originally Posted by TMNT

The money came out of the 700 billion Wall Street bailout. This is NOT new money, therefore I see no problem with it.

All they are doing is shifting money away from another failing company and putting towards a different failing company. The job losses will still occur due to this shift.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by pmeloche

It's actually $13.4B not $17.4B. GM gets $9.4B and Chrysler gets $4B. Nothing for Ford?

It is $17.4 billion. The $13.4 billion that remains in the first $350 billion and then another $4 billion with the 2nd round.

Ford doesn't need the loan.

And Ford won't suck in the future once we get the Euro models like the Focus and Fiesta.

[pmeloche]

Originally Posted by quagmire

It is $17.4 billion. The $13.4 billion that remains in the first $350 billion and then another $4 billion with the 2nd round.

Ford doesn't need the loan.

And Ford won't suck in the future once we get the Euro models like the Focus and Fiesta.

I did not know that. Thank you for the correction.

[1cleanm6]

GOOD DECISION...

phewwwwwwwwwww

[addy85]

Regardless of what your opinion is about the bailout, it had to happen. The world would be in a financial meltdown because of the amount of jobs that would have been lost. Doesn't matter whether we approve it or not but in order to boost the economy back up it had to happen. Of course if these companies don't get their act together then eventually they will fall again but I doubt they will make the same mistake

[Bobby_Light]

Originally Posted by addy85

Regardless of what your opinion is about the bailout, it had to happen. The world would be in a financial meltdown because of the amount of jobs that would have been lost. Doesn't matter whether we approve it or not but in order to boost the economy back up it had to happen. Of course if these companies don't get their act together then eventually they will fall again but I doubt they will make the same mistake

Get back to me when that "economy boost" happens as a result of these bailouts.

These failing companies have a virus; we are giving them medicine that is literally incapable of curing it. The companies will just come back to the government in due time when the virus gets worse and ask for more medicine.

The money they receive does not solve the root problem - they make a bunch of shitty products made by overpaid workers. As one of my football coaches said prior to each practice, "There is no sense in delaying the inevitable."

[addy85]

Originally Posted by Bobby_Light

Get back to me when that "economy boost" happens as a result of these bailouts.

These failing companies have a virus; we are giving them medicine that is literally incapable of curing it. The companies will just come back to the government in due time when the virus gets worse and ask for more medicine.

The money they receive does not solve the root problem - they make a bunch of shitty products made by overpaid workers. As one of my football coaches said prior to each practice, "There is no sense in delaying the inevitable."

Who are the overpaid workers your talking about? The CEO's?

What is your plan for the millions of people who would lose their job and the financial worldwide crisis it would cause?

Unless you have a better plan, I'd give up arguing based on your personal opinion and rather try to come up with a better plan to save the financial market.

[eclipsisNA]

Originally Posted by addy85

Who are the overpaid workers your talking about? The CEO's?

I think he's talking about the UAW workers who make something like $75 an hour compared to Japanese auto workers that make $45. Gendlefink (sp?) and his compatriots are extortionists of the highest order.

[Bobby_Light]

Originally Posted by addy85

Who are the overpaid workers your talking about? The CEO's?

What is your plan for the millions of people who would lose their job and the financial worldwide crisis it would cause?

Unless you have a better plan, I'd give up arguing based on your personal opinion and rather try to come up with a better plan to save the financial market.

See below for the answer to your first question. CEOs are overpaid too for damn sure.

It's the American way - treat symptoms, ignore the cause. Let the free market work and stop with the government interference already. Many of our failed car brands will eventually be put under new management, under new labor contracts, and made into viable companies again with a real strategy and direction for success. Our current bailout strategy ends the way it should have already done, with failure. The root cause of the problem WAS not addressed. It's like giving someone blood pressure medication and ignoring that they eat like shit and don't exercise.

Keep in mind that the government is moving a portion of the bailout money from one sector of the economy to another. You are saving jobs at failing auto companies only to lose jobs at other bailed out corporations.

Job losses are inevitable at this time. When you have a nation that doesn't produce anything and have borrowed and spent themselves into oblivion hard times will occur. There is no way to prevent the job loss. We need to tear down malls and build some factories. Start producing instead of consuming, spending, and borrowing our way to "wealth." A strong economy is based on production and savings.

Originally Posted by Eclipse Motors

I think he's talking about the UAW workers who make something like $75 an hour compared to Japanese auto workers that make $45. Gendlefink (sp?) and his compatriots are extortionists of the highest order.

Exactly. A lot of these people don't have a college degree and are getting $75 for a plant job. Recipe for failure.

[quagmire]

Get off the free market crap. Do you think a 100% free market will work with countries competing against one another? You must use some protectionist policies. Also, the free market has destroyed the US. Name one industry that is not military related that the US excels over the other countries that have invaded our economy?

Even the idiot that is Bush realized the free market would destroy this country if we allowed the Big 3 to fail. And he was the damn idiot who preached the free market!

[Bobby_Light]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Get off the free market crap. Do you think a 100% free market will work with countries competing against one another? You must use some protectionist policies. Also, the free market has destroyed the US. Name one industry that is not military related that the US excels over the other countries that have invaded our economy?

Even the idiot that is Bush realized the free market would destroy this country if we allowed the Big 3 to fail. And he was the damn idiot who preached the free market!

Farming. Let me guess. You're a liberal. Government interference is what caused this mess not the free market.

"Don't Blame Capitalism"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101503166.html

"The United States reached its economic preeminence on the strength of its free markets. So far, the economic disaster exacerbated by government policies is creating opportunities for further government interference, which will lead to bigger catastrophes. Binding the country to a tangle of socialist ideals will seal our fate as a second-rate economic power."

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Eclipse Motors

I think he's talking about the UAW workers who make something like $75 an hour compared to Japanese auto workers that make $45. Gendlefink (sp?) and his compatriots are extortionists of the highest order.

The main difference in hourly wages between GM UAW employees and those of companies like Toyota are the funding of retiree trust fund.

The aid package kicks the UAW in the balls. It mandates the same wages and "work rules" as the non UAW car companies like Toyota. AND half of the funding of the retiree trust fund must be made in stock not cash....

This means the cash expense of these workers go way down....and they become defacto shareholders through their trust fund.

The UAW was finally put in check...

[RonJon]

Originally Posted by T Bone

The main difference in hourly wages between GM UAW employees and those of companies like Toyota are the funding of retiree trust fund.

The aid package kicks the UAW in the balls. It mandates the same wages and "work rules" as the non UAW car companies like Toyota. AND half of the funding of the retiree trust fund must be made in stock not cash....

This means the cash expense of these workers go way down....and they become defacto shareholders through their trust fund.

The UAW was finally put in check...

And dont forget that the UAW workers are a lot less effiecient then the workers at Japanese plants...

I work in the industry and the unionized workers do get away with murder sometimes, its a shame really..

[742]

Originally Posted by Eclipse Motors

I think he's talking about the UAW workers who make something like $75 an hour compared to Japanese auto workers that make $45. Gendlefink (sp?) and his compatriots are extortionists of the highest order.

The average UAW worker makes $28 an hour. The absolute max is $39 an hour. The $70 and $75 figures are propaganda, derived by rolling in all employee related expenses and them implying that this is an hourly pay rate.

The bulk of the real cost difference between the North and the South is retirement benefits, most of which were supposed to have been funded during the employee’s working years. The UAW is not responsible for the under funding of retirement plans during the 1980s and 1990s – management is.

The war on the working class continues.

"There is class warfare, all right. But it is my class, the rich class, that is making war. And we are winning."
(Warren Buffet quoted in the NY Times.)