[quagmire]

Originally Posted by RonJon

The XL-7 is designed by GM, most of it Oshawa..

Designed and assembled are two different things.

You are 100% correct, with one exeption, the Camery and ES dont compete with another. And just to correct something, the Highlander is not a RX. They dont share any of the interior or exterior design qeues... I mean in Oshawa car plant where they had two assembly lines, they used to make 5 different cars, all based on the same platform, and more then one of them had the same specs, looks, price, and target consumer. That is never the case with Toyota and Honda.

You're 100% correct with one exception, the RX and Highlander do share platforms. Just like I said, Toyota does rebadging better then GM.

I do agree with you to an extent, more so then then Ford and Chrysler. Ford seems to believe that they have the right plan and maybe they'll get by, but Chrysler needs to go, by that I mean merge with GM.

Ford is just keeping things closer to the chest then GM is. Look where Ford is being smart: bringing over their Euro products. While GM is having a huge mess on what to do with their Euro products.

[RonJon]

Originally Posted by quagmire

You're 100% correct with one exception, the RX and Highlander do share platforms. Just like I said, Toyota does rebadging better then GM.

Lets try this with pictures:


vs.


Make note of the curvier dynamic shape of the RX vs. the boxey and solid look of the Highlander.

Now, this is rebadging:


vs.

vs.


All examples of the above share the same platform. The lexus is a luxury crossover, the highlander is just a typical small suv/crossover, they dont compete.

The Acadia is a larger SUV very much like the Outlook, but the Enclave is the luxury version of this platform and they need to get rid of GMC or the Saturn because they target the same demographic, unlike the Buick!!

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

We've already gave Chrysler a chance, that was 30 years ago with the same problems.

I just don't understand how anyone can blindly not question how our government(crooks) can steal from our tax paying money and continuiously give to these poorly managed companies? These companies themself won't even use their own money to get out of this mess and we're responsible to fix them? Fannie Mae,Freddie Mac, GM, Chrysler, and Ford. what next Krispy Kreme?

The auto bailouts (BTW I hate that word) are fundamentally different from the financial sector ones. The automakers have to jump through all kinds of hoops in order to keep it. Oh and about the last Chrysler bailout (meanwhile they wouldn't be in the situation if Daimler hadn't f-ed them up so bad and if they hadn't been bought by an equity firm of all people), Chrysler actually paid back the entire amount they were given in full YEARS before it was due back to the Government.

Either accept fate now or prolong the agony and accept it sometime down the road. I vote for now so we can start our rebuilding. It took 15 years of printing for Japan to get out of their depression, looks like we're headed the same direction.

Read a newspaper man, this isn't just happening to us, the entire WORLD is feeling the effects of this. Every single car manufacturer is asking their respective governments for help, not just the Big 3.

Oh yeah, your example of the Ford hybrid is 2 years behind, wait till you see what's in store that USA is currently not allowing to come in. Hmm I wonder why?

What? English? How is it two years behind? The car is coming out in January. If you mean in terms of technology, it is incorporating many new features that aren't found anywhere else in the industry. Lets not forget GM's Volt which is the most advanced EV vehicle that will be offered by any manufacturer. And what is with this conspiracy theory of the US not allowing whatever it is you are talking about in? I'm pretty knowledgeable about the entire auto industry, not just in the US but around the world and know a good amount about models produced outside the US. The only thing I can fathom you are talking about would be diesel technology, and if that is the case, it is not the government causing our lack of high efficiency diesels. Diesel at least $1.00 more than regular gas and that coupled with the average price over a gas powered engine makes it take many years at least before you can see a return on your money.



And on a side note, I have a really big pet peeve about people referring to the Big 3 in this whole situation. Ford isn't included in any of this nonsense. They have enough capital to keep going for a year at least. I think one of the main problems right now is the public has to get over their stereotype about American cars. It is true that up until a few years ago they made pretty uncompetitive products, but today they are getting there. I've already started looking at getting a second car for when I finish college and start a job. One of the front runners on my list is the Honda Fit, small, economical and can haul 60 cubic feet of stuff. Not too shabby. Now I am also seriously considering a Ford Fiesta. If Ford prices it competitively and I like it when I see it in person, I would buy it over the Fit. Same goes for other products. It takes an incredibly long time to get a car into production, this change isn't going to happen overnight. Ford and GM (Unfortunately I can't say the same for Chrysler at this point) are getting really good products on the market. Ford has made the turn and the products are finally starting to come out 2010 Fusion, 2010 Mustang, 2011 Fiesta, and the 2009 F-150 which even though it is a pickup truck features many new advances for the class and decent fuel economy. GM is still in the process of getting turned around, but in a year or so they could be coming out the other side as well. The one company I see no hope in the immediate future for though is Chrysler. That is one screwed up company.

[quagmire]

I agree the RX and Highlander don't compete. While the Lambda's can cannibalize each other( more likely the Acadia and Outlook as the Enclave is positioned towards mid-lux buyers). But, the RX and Highlander do share platforms. That is all I am saying about it.

[Seminole]

Sorry to hijack, but case in point about how I would be willing to buy an American car over a foreign car if I thought it was competitive enough: The 2010 Chevy Equinox was just unveiled and I'm floored:






Much better looking then the CR-V IMO.

And for real life shots:

[quagmire]

I posted the interior last page. You're not the only one who follows the industry.

[RonJon]

Originally Posted by Seminole

I've already started looking at getting a second car for when I finish college and start a job. One of the front runners on my list is the Honda Fit, small, economical and can haul 60 cubic feet of stuff. Not too shabby. Now I am also seriously considering a Ford Fiesta. If Ford prices it competitively and I like it when I see it in person, I would buy it over the Fit.

I dont want to keep bashing these bastards (D3) but your much more safer getting a Fit then a Ford. By safe I mean getting a good reliable product. Honda's keep their values allot better then D3 products, just look at autotrader and compare civics vs. focus, sunfire (or whatever the hell its called now a days)

Originally Posted by quagmire

I agree the RX and Highlander don't compete. While the Lambda's can cannibalize each other( more likely the Acadia and Outlook as the Enclave is positioned towards mid-lux buyers). But, the RX and Highlander do share platforms. That is all I am saying about it.

I agree also..

There is nothing wrong with platform sharing, I mean virtually every mass produced car in the markt shares its platform with another. My beef is with companies like GM hat abuse the crap out of it.

Ford has better controll over it but they still need to get rid of Mercury all together. Ford models for the masses and Lincolns for the luxury consumers.

[RonJon]

Originally Posted by Seminole

Sorry to hijack, but case in point about how I would be willing to buy an American car over a foreign car if I thought it was competitive enough: The 2010 Chevy Equinox was just unveiled and I'm floored:

Much better looking then the CR-V IMO.

Production was slated to start in April, but they've put that on hold for now. Once the plant starts back up in Feb, they will run about 20 units per week which will become test mules.

A local univeristy; University of Waterloo's Engineering dept was given a Equniox and they converted it to hydrogen powered vehicle for a compitation of some sort...

[Auto_Armour335i]

This was a way smarter move then the wall street BS. BYE BYE Saturn, HUMMER, and Pontiac. The big three need to do drastic things right now and cut half of there auto brands.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Auto_Armour335i

This was a way smarter move then the wall street BS. BYE BYE Saturn, HUMMER, and Pontiac. The big three need to do drastic things right now and cut half of there auto brands.

It should be Buick instead of Saturn!

* will keep his Aura for a very long time.

[johnnymu]

Originally Posted by Seminole

What? English? How is it two years behind? The car is coming out in January. If you mean in terms of technology, it is incorporating many new features that aren't found anywhere else in the industry. Lets not forget GM's Volt which is the most advanced EV vehicle that will be offered by any manufacturer. And what is with this conspiracy theory of the US not allowing whatever it is you are talking about in? I'm pretty knowledgeable about the entire auto industry, not just in the US but around the world and know a good amount about models produced outside the US. The only thing I can fathom you are talking about would be diesel technology, and if that is the case, it is not the government causing our lack of high efficiency diesels. Diesel at least $1.00 more than regular gas and that coupled with the average price over a gas powered engine makes it take many years at least before you can see a return on your money.

http://www.scientificblogging.com/ne..._auto_industry
It's not a conspiracy, it's a fact.

I don't even feel like answering your comments, cause you obviously think it's right to take other's money and launder it in a corrupted system. Bottom line rewarding an industry that has saddled itself with a top-heavy management structure, runaway employee salaries http://wsjclassroom.com/archive/06ma...2_jobsbank.htm and union monopolization is unfair.

[lauer87]

Originally Posted by quagmire

It should be Buick instead of Saturn!

* will keep his Aura for a very long time.

In the US yes, but on the world market (Chinese specifically) the Buick name has strong value.

[johnnymu]

[u2b]UcDtw2oZqVA&NR=1[/u2b]

It's been in the works since 2000 and finally unveiled Jan 13, 08 at NAIAS, so why no press since?? For a Hybrid, I rather keep my options open than invest in an "Big 3".

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

http://www.scientificblogging.com/ne..._auto_industry
It's not a conspiracy, it's a fact.

I don't even feel like answering your comments, cause you obviously think it's right to take other's money and launder it in a corrupted system. Bottom line rewarding an industry that has saddled itself with a top-heavy management structure, runaway employee salaries http://wsjclassroom.com/archive/06ma...2_jobsbank.htm and union monopolization is unfair.

Awww, don't want to answer my comments? And what is with all this taking other peoples money. Did 'ole Georgey walk down to your bank and take money for the bailout from you savings account? No. I'm what I would consider a conservative but I don't get the hardcore captitalism philosophy of "shit, let it fail." So in a year when half of the countries major businesses and employers are no longer it business it will all be OK because they didn't DESERVE to survive.

As far as the XH150, lets go out on a ledge and actually ASSUME they are trying to suppress it. That would be only one example. And it really doesn't blow my mind like you said it would... The Chevy Volt is exactly the same thing, oh and btw, the XH150 is a few years old. It was released to the public in January of '08 the Volt has been out and in testing since '07. Also, how much will the damn thing cost. People aren't going to spend $40,000 on an electric car (like the Volt or the XH150) especially when they can buy a fuel efficient gas version for tens of thousands left and pay to put gas in it for 10 years and still not reach $40,000.

Also, electric vehicles are full of fail. Oh, so we stop using oil and we all zip around silently, great plan. But A, what happens when I need to drive from home to college (~500miles). I'm not going to stop and recharge my battery. Also, that electricity for my car, where is it coming from? Here is the answer:








So we are supplanting one dangerous fuel for many different ones. Brilliant plan! The future is not in electric or hybrid cars. It is in completely new fuel sources such as hydrogen. Here is Honda's FCX clarity (Since it is by Honda it isn't being suppressed right?):

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/J25S948uJPw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/J25S948uJPw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

[johnnymu]

XH150 been worked on since 2000
estimated price 30k. The whole point is we should have other options. Volt, they can't even select the right battery yet.

And about the bush comment, please I don't worry about having enough money period. I worry about my rights.

This is why we should question the system 1.6 Billion bailout went to banks execs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081221/...utive_bailouts

[johnnymu]

More reason why this is the worst scandal in US history

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081222/...ltdown_secrets

[Draman]

Originally Posted by Seminole

Sadly, as good as the concept pic looks, you can tell they are pretty far from reality. The real life picture shows poor panel fit and the shine implies that the panels are made of low quality plastics. It takes a lot more than adding colors to make a nice interior

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by Draman

Sadly, as good as the concept pic looks, you can tell they are pretty far from reality. The real life picture shows poor panel fit and the shine implies that the panels are made of low quality plastics. It takes a lot more than adding colors to make a nice interior

Yeah, but all cars used for initial testing and unveiling (with all manufacturers) use a lower grade of plastic and have shoddy fitment here and there. For what its worth, GM said during the unveil that the production spec model will have higher quality trim. Also, that picture was taken with a flash, which has a tendency to not make the picture look like what it does in real life. Look how bad the reflection is around the area of the shifter/ CD slot.

[RonJon]

Originally Posted by Seminole

Yeah, but all cars used for initial testing and unveiling (with all manufacturers) use a lower grade of plastic and have shoddy fitment here and there. For what its worth, GM said during the unveil that the production spec model will have higher quality trim. Also, that picture was taken with a flash, which has a tendency to not make the picture look like what it does in real life. Look how bad the reflection is around the area of the shifter/ CD slot.

I have seen this car in person with different colour and it looks nice (interior wise)

[johnnymu]

Here's more foods for thought, where your tax paying money has gone so far in the total cost of bailout or someone like to say " money not effecting your saving's account". "sigh"
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/s...out_scorecard/

[NYSPEM3]

Originally Posted by Draman

Sadly, as good as the concept pic looks, you can tell they are pretty far from reality. The real life picture shows poor panel fit and the shine implies that the panels are made of low quality plastics. It takes a lot more than adding colors to make a nice interior

I wouldn't knock the Chevy based on the interior pic. Even my M3 interior looked less than stellar under such harsh lighting conditions. The uni-directional flash gun on cameras is very unflattering.
I would withhold my judgment until I see the real thing. Based upon the recent GM cars I have seen, it should be interesting.
ps. on the other hand, Toyota interiors are getting worse by the day. The new Corolla interior is downright nasty

[johnnymu]

Originally Posted by asdflkijd

Wow.. just wow, I'm just astonished at how he can still make retarded ass calls.. fuck, I'm going to Canada

To the OP, canada is offering 3.29 billion auto bailout to the Big 3
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10454...ml?puc=_tscrss