GIAC Comparison #2 (Video Runs)

NRG · 08-29-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlife

were you using the paddle shifters? they do not shift as fast as the console shifter.

also many people find that shifting at say 6,500 is better than letting the auto shift by itself at redline 7000.

It doesn't matter at this point whether he was shifting with wheel pedals or stick. It's too much of a difference for him to keep up or catch up. The minimal milliseconds between shifters wont' make up for it IMO.

canrhea · 08-29-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldasicex5

im pretty sure like most people here, that everything in that video seemed correct and accurate..

'nuff said

yup, the race was done on pump gas. Procede car had driver problems, but it an auto, the difference is not even close.

Point is, jb3 is a WAY faster car than the procede regardless.

Great vid Mr. 5, im sure you will get stg 2 as soon as its available

Mr. 5 · 08-29-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luca335i

If giac holds more boost redlne than it would make sense to compete with map 6 or 7. Nice runs. Makes sense to me. If the procede car switched to catless dps and catback it would of pulled on the giac car for sure. I race my bros e92 with procede st. 3 and catless dps and all mods. He's running 90 UT and were dead even when I'm on map 7. It's so even it's not even funny. We can't even pull a bumper on eachother.

I disagree. Only because I believe that their stage 1 map is meant for a stock car. Stage 2 should compete pretty well with the map 6 and 7 I believe. Because isn't map 7 supposed to be either for a fully modded car on 91 octane or 93 octane?

BTW, the Procede car did have catless DPs and an exhaust with HFCs.

hotrod182 · 08-29-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontopofm

you too man, i'd like to go to camarillo next time

Yeah, I would join in with tune only. So hopefully a tune only GIAC can come along. I seriously lost some HP since the progman update. But can still run 12.7 @ 112 mph with a second gear launch (0-60 4.2 seconds) on 91 octane and map #7. I never run the lower maps.

FYI: I know these are roll ons, but my last time out, my quickest times were 2nd gear launches! This tune does have some decent low end torque, LOL.

NRG · 08-29-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Yeah, I would join in with tune only. So hopefully a tune only GIAC can come along. I seriously lost some HP since the progman update. But can still run 12.7 @ 112 mph with a second gear launch (0-60 4.2 seconds) on 91 octane and map #7. I never run the lower maps.

FYI: I know these are roll ons, but my last time out, my quickest times were 2nd gear launches! This tune does have some decent low end torque, LOL.

OK everybody! Prepare to lose.

blisstik · 08-29-2009, 08:38 PM

You mean "lose" unless you're referring to Paris Hilton. Great race. JB3 1.4 is definitely a beast once it gets going. Imagine a home flasher with JB3 1.4 tune with switchable maps in the future.

ar design · 08-29-2009, 08:45 PM

Guys, you need to remember that the MT is at quite a disadvantage vs an AT car.....

happy4nk8er · 08-29-2009, 08:52 PM

Feel like I'm watching Fox News, fair and balanced.

Driver72 · 08-29-2009, 08:58 PM

Not sure why the results of the PROcede car is a surprise to anybody really.
When I did the first PROcede V3 vs JB3 dyno back to back on the same car, same day, same dyno the JB3 came out ahead.
When I organized the West Coast dyno day in which 20 people with both PROcede and JB3 tuned cars came out, often making more power with less mods too.
Whenever we've gotten together for runs in Mexico the JB3 cars pull on the PROcede cars. Last time I pulled on Mote when he had his PROcede in and full mods on race gas. I was on JB3 Map 7 and 93 Octane only. I'd still creep away on him.
A couple days later he dynoed his car and was a bit upset by the power results. He then put in a JB3 and redynoed and got like 20 rwhp more but still lower than what he should of. Then he put in new plugs and picked up another 25 rwhp. But even on the bad plugs the JB3 once again posted like 20 rwhp more.

As for the reason Mr. 5 would get the jump each time.
Two reasons:
1. He's doing the honking I'd suspect and that gives him a few milliseconds advantage, as the other cars have to wait to hear the horn then react where as the person honking knows when he's hitting the 3rd honk and can react quicker.

2. And more importantly, I've posted about this a few times in the past too. The manual cars ALWAYS jump ahead of the autos in rolling runs.
I've run STOCK manual cars against my auto 335i when it was stock, and EVERYTIME the manuals would pull ahead right after the honk by .25-.5 CLs
I think it's that the autos tranny just has a tiny bit more lag programed in.

I'd say the GIAC Stage 1 is probably close to JB3 1.4 Map 5 but maybe a tiny bit less still.

Auto tranny's seem to have a 1-1.25 CL advantage in 40-120+ runs (they always drop back 1/2 CL at first but then end up being .5-.75 CL's in front....all mods equal). But even on Map 5 the JB3 car seemed to pull away quicker and more than 1 CL as it went out of view on the first run and was going out of view on the second run when he hit the brakes. So clearly even on Map 5 the JB3 car was pulling more than the 1-1.25 CL's an auto tranny's advantage is over a manuals.
And that's with a heavier car.
The mods seemed close, but Mr. 5 also has HFC exhaust. His car is already lighter being a manual and aftermarket exhaust's usually drop another 25-30+ lbs.
So again, I'd say the GIAC Stage 1 tune is close to JB3 Map 5, but still a bit less. Probably somewhere in the middle between Map 3 and Map 5
Too bad you guys didn't do a JB3 Map 3 run. My guess is it would of been close but Mr. 5 might of edged the Map 3 out by .5-.75 CL's

The only way to really know is to get a tune only JB3 1.4 335i with auto tranny on Map 5 and run against a tune only GIAC Stage 1 335i with auto tranny.
This way there is no driver shifting excuses or anything.
My guess is the JB3 car will ever so slightly creep. Maybe ending up .5 CL's ahead from 40-120.
Map 7 JB3 is about 15-18 rwhp more powerful than Map 5 if you have the correct supporting mods. But on an otherwise stock car on 91 Octane, it's only about 7-8 rwhp more peak, but often has a dip in the powerband around 5000-5500 rpms due to some timing/knock being pulled for not having proper octane/mods. So in that case Map 7 is only marginally faster than Map 5

As has been said and known for some time (since the JB3 was first released) it's just a very strong tune that the others just can't quite seem to match.

Good runs and vids Craig.

gumpy · 08-29-2009, 09:00 PM

Nice comparison MR. 5.

I have not had any HPFP issues, but the car is stock. I am waiting to see what AMS finds out with their research, then I would like to get the GIAC flash.

The comparison was very helpful.

I think people need to keep in mind that although the JB3 car was faster, the GIAC tune is most likely a safer and more conservative tune, but still made decent power.

Gumpy.

NRG · 08-29-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darklocust

You mean "lose" unless you're referring to Paris Hilton. Great race. JB3 1.4 is definitely a beast once it gets going. Imagine a home flasher with JB3 1.4 tune with switchable maps in the future.

Oops, held the "O" key for too long lol.

m3rxn · 08-29-2009, 09:30 PM

Nice runs bro.

gt3fever · 08-29-2009, 10:09 PM

very nice vids Mr.5 ! the jb car pulls like beast !

looking forward to see what stage2 will do !

TreDirtyFive · 08-29-2009, 10:39 PM

Don't the DCI's add an extra 10whp or so in ideal conditions such as these high speed runs? I believe your DCI vs stock Intake dyno thread tells this story very clearly. Mr. 5 you are on the stock Intake, correct? I'm not sure how negligible that is on a high speed run but I would think it would account for more top end power for sure. Perhaps if you had one you'd be a lot closer, if not faster (?), than that Map5 run suggests.

TMR · 08-30-2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB335

Does the proceed flash a light on the dash to alert you when you've been spanked?

LOL!

Terrance28 · 08-30-2009, 01:24 AM

^^That is funny

.

TigerDejan · 08-30-2009, 05:36 AM

AWESOME comparison

thanks mr5

Meanie · 08-30-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB335

Does the proceed flash a light on the dash to alert you when you've been spanked?

ROFL! Classic

Love the comparisons Mr. 5, really is refreshing to know what the different tunes do and how they react on the road rather than on the dyno.

Driver72 · 08-30-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreDirtyFive

Don't the DCI's add an extra 10whp or so in ideal conditions such as these high speed runs? I believe your DCI vs stock Intake dyno thread tells this story very clearly. Mr. 5 you are on the stock Intake, correct? I'm not sure how negligible that is on a high speed run but I would think it would account for more top end power for sure. Perhaps if you had one you'd be a lot closer, if not faster (?), than that Map5 run suggests.

I don't remember if Mr. 5 does or not. But he also has an aftermarket exhaust which easily adds 10 rwhp too (and lowers weight) so that easily offsets the DCI if Mr. 5 doesn't have one. And if he does, well then he should of had even more of an advantage.

If the GIAC flash was a Cobb or SCT like handheld flash device that all you had to do was plug it into the OBD port and flash the car, or flash back to stock in minutes and was undetectable to the ECU when flashed back to stock, it would be a winner at that price.
But without those conveniences and pretty instant warranty voiding (if the ECU registers it had been flashed and you can't clear that with a BT Cable) it's too risky and too much of a problem flashing back and forth from tuned to stock when needed.
For those cars out of warranty, it's a nice option though if you don't want to mess with a piggyback and don't mind a bit less power than JB3 offers.

Somebody with a JB+ at 75% should run a GIAC Stage 1 flash only car, I'd bet that would be close too. GIAC would probably come out a bit ahead though.

Eugene-TAIWAN · 08-30-2009, 10:45 AM

NICE JOB with the VIDS

5soko · 08-30-2009, 11:37 AM

WOW nice comparison! Ma7 Jb3 was MOVING! interested to see stage 2 vs Map7.

Mote · 08-30-2009, 11:56 AM

Wow great runs Craig. Pretty impressed with the results for stage 1 on the GIAC.

I will have my car back tomorrow, if you want to do some runs this coming weekend. AT puts your 6MT at a disadvantage as I've raced numerous AT's to know.

I'm 6MT so I think we should match up great. We can do 91 octane and me on map 5 if you'd like.

Let me know!

Oh and... we can even video tape me filling up with 91 octane for the rest of the forum.

08-29-2009, 08:38 PM	#50
blisstik Lieutenant Colonel 151 Rep 1,677 Posts Drives: E92 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California iTrader: (14)	You mean "lose" unless you're referring to Paris Hilton. Great race. JB3 1.4 is definitely a beast once it gets going. Imagine a home flasher with JB3 1.4 tune with switchable maps in the future.
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08-29-2009, 08:45 PM	#51
ar design 297 Rep 4,408 Posts Drives: 04 M3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denver, CO iTrader: (9)	Guys, you need to remember that the MT is at quite a disadvantage vs an AT car..... __________________ -Critter
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08-29-2009, 08:52 PM	#52
happy4nk8er Second Lieutenant 2 Rep 277 Posts Drives: 335i E92 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Milky way galaxy iTrader: (0)	Feel like I'm watching Fox News, fair and balanced.
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08-29-2009, 08:58 PM	#53
Driver72 Brigadier General 327 Rep 4,484 Posts Drives: 335i - to new owners now. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California iTrader: (0)	Not sure why the results of the PROcede car is a surprise to anybody really. When I did the first PROcede V3 vs JB3 dyno back to back on the same car, same day, same dyno the JB3 came out ahead. When I organized the West Coast dyno day in which 20 people with both PROcede and JB3 tuned cars came out, often making more power with less mods too. Whenever we've gotten together for runs in Mexico the JB3 cars pull on the PROcede cars. Last time I pulled on Mote when he had his PROcede in and full mods on race gas. I was on JB3 Map 7 and 93 Octane only. I'd still creep away on him. A couple days later he dynoed his car and was a bit upset by the power results. He then put in a JB3 and redynoed and got like 20 rwhp more but still lower than what he should of. Then he put in new plugs and picked up another 25 rwhp. But even on the bad plugs the JB3 once again posted like 20 rwhp more. As for the reason Mr. 5 would get the jump each time. Two reasons: 1. He's doing the honking I'd suspect and that gives him a few milliseconds advantage, as the other cars have to wait to hear the horn then react where as the person honking knows when he's hitting the 3rd honk and can react quicker. 2. And more importantly, I've posted about this a few times in the past too. The manual cars ALWAYS jump ahead of the autos in rolling runs. I've run STOCK manual cars against my auto 335i when it was stock, and EVERYTIME the manuals would pull ahead right after the honk by .25-.5 CLs I think it's that the autos tranny just has a tiny bit more lag programed in. I'd say the GIAC Stage 1 is probably close to JB3 1.4 Map 5 but maybe a tiny bit less still. Auto tranny's seem to have a 1-1.25 CL advantage in 40-120+ runs (they always drop back 1/2 CL at first but then end up being .5-.75 CL's in front....all mods equal). But even on Map 5 the JB3 car seemed to pull away quicker and more than 1 CL as it went out of view on the first run and was going out of view on the second run when he hit the brakes. So clearly even on Map 5 the JB3 car was pulling more than the 1-1.25 CL's an auto tranny's advantage is over a manuals. And that's with a heavier car. The mods seemed close, but Mr. 5 also has HFC exhaust. His car is already lighter being a manual and aftermarket exhaust's usually drop another 25-30+ lbs. So again, I'd say the GIAC Stage 1 tune is close to JB3 Map 5, but still a bit less. Probably somewhere in the middle between Map 3 and Map 5 Too bad you guys didn't do a JB3 Map 3 run. My guess is it would of been close but Mr. 5 might of edged the Map 3 out by .5-.75 CL's The only way to really know is to get a tune only JB3 1.4 335i with auto tranny on Map 5 and run against a tune only GIAC Stage 1 335i with auto tranny. This way there is no driver shifting excuses or anything. My guess is the JB3 car will ever so slightly creep. Maybe ending up .5 CL's ahead from 40-120. Map 7 JB3 is about 15-18 rwhp more powerful than Map 5 if you have the correct supporting mods. But on an otherwise stock car on 91 Octane, it's only about 7-8 rwhp more peak, but often has a dip in the powerband around 5000-5500 rpms due to some timing/knock being pulled for not having proper octane/mods. So in that case Map 7 is only marginally faster than Map 5 As has been said and known for some time (since the JB3 was first released) it's just a very strong tune that the others just can't quite seem to match. Good runs and vids Craig.
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08-29-2009, 09:00 PM	#54
gumpy Private First Class 16 Rep 129 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 135i DCT Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mount Joy, PA iTrader: (0)	Nice comparison MR. 5. I have not had any HPFP issues, but the car is stock. I am waiting to see what AMS finds out with their research, then I would like to get the GIAC flash. The comparison was very helpful. I think people need to keep in mind that although the JB3 car was faster, the GIAC tune is most likely a safer and more conservative tune, but still made decent power. Gumpy.
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08-29-2009, 09:30 PM	#56
m3rxn Colonel 978 Rep 2,124 Posts Drives: boosted Inline 6's Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern Cali iTrader: (0)	Nice runs bro. __________________ 15 F82 M4,YMB-6MT 17 G30 540i,AW-8spd ZF 24 G82 M4C x-drive, DY-Dakar Yellow ind-8spd ZF
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08-29-2009, 10:09 PM	#57
gt3fever Major 77 Rep 1,232 Posts Drives: 992 GT3, G87 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Socal, Taiwan iTrader: (15)	very nice vids Mr.5 ! the jb car pulls like beast ! looking forward to see what stage2 will do !
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08-29-2009, 10:39 PM	#58
TreDirtyFive Major 253 Rep 1,334 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (11)	Don't the DCI's add an extra 10whp or so in ideal conditions such as these high speed runs? I believe your DCI vs stock Intake dyno thread tells this story very clearly. Mr. 5 you are on the stock Intake, correct? I'm not sure how negligible that is on a high speed run but I would think it would account for more top end power for sure. Perhaps if you had one you'd be a lot closer, if not faster (?), than that Map5 run suggests. __________________ X3 M40i G01, M235i F22, 335 F30 MSport, 135 DCT, 335 E92, Audi A3
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08-30-2009, 01:24 AM	#60
Terrance28 Brigadier General 109 Rep 3,334 Posts Drives: Crimson Red E92 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Killeen, TX iTrader: (17)	^^That is funny. __________________ Mods list got too long, lets just say more than enough.
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08-30-2009, 05:36 AM	#61
TigerDejan Captain 61 Rep 919 Posts Drives: Bmw 335i Coupe Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sweden iTrader: (2)	AWESOME comparison thanks mr5 __________________ Current:Bmw 325D E90 LCI Edition Sport \| BSM \| M-Tech \| Comfort-Pkg \| 6MT \| OEM 18" 193M \| Alcantara Seats \| ESS Tuning Custom Stage 2 \| OEM Performance Grill \| FK Street Coilovers \| CF Emblems \| Sold: Bmw 335i E92 - Fully Loaded - Stage 3+
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08-30-2009, 10:45 AM	#64
Eugene-TAIWAN Brigadier General 249 Rep 3,157 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan iTrader: (4)	NICE JOB with the VIDS __________________ Past: Gintani stage3 M3, Cayman GTS present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6,Macan Turbo,997GT2,930 turbo,i3, MINI JCW
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08-30-2009, 11:37 AM	#65
5soko Brigadier General 333 Rep 4,632 Posts Drives: M5 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY iTrader: (4)	WOW nice comparison! Ma7 Jb3 was MOVING! interested to see stage 2 vs Map7.
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08-30-2009, 11:56 AM	#66
Mote Colonel 138 Rep 2,162 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 - 1991 E30 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Beverly Hills, CA iTrader: (0)	Wow great runs Craig. Pretty impressed with the results for stage 1 on the GIAC. I will have my car back tomorrow, if you want to do some runs this coming weekend. AT puts your 6MT at a disadvantage as I've raced numerous AT's to know. I'm 6MT so I think we should match up great. We can do 91 octane and me on map 5 if you'd like. Let me know! Oh and... we can even video tape me filling up with 91 octane for the rest of the forum.
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