Snow Performance Stage 3 Water/Methanol Kit **EXTENSIVE REVIEW/DIY**

Alex@AKMotorwerk · 10-05-2009, 07:00 PM

[QUOTE=cn555ic;5979492]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Inevitably they can, but the problem is that you do not want to confuse one with the other. If you are taking off very fast, then the fluid will sway in the tank and you would see the light come on, so it would be very confusing. Low Flow or Low Tank Warning?[/QUOTE

In your install there is only two leds correct in the vent...one is for low level indicator and the other is for faulty injection....but isnt there another for meth active green light?

remember he is using the snow controller on his stage 3 kit... not just a stage 2 kit

cn555ic · 10-05-2009, 09:07 PM

Your right Alex about FBIS that he is using stage 3!! I just looked at my car, and the place to mount the pump that he used is not possible in a E93!!! The hydrolic pump is in that location, and I kind of knew it being that there are two large wire harness going into that picture, and mine has a lid to cover up that hole which the E92 don't

!! So I guess I have to place it to the side compartment, there is also a neat feature for the E93 that is perfect for the 2.5 gallon tank, its a space in between the passenger backrest and the trunk, its used for snow ski or anything that requires it have access to the trunk'!!......Snows dimensions won't fit, but Devils Own makes a 2.5 gallon tank that measures 7 3/4 x 12 3/4 x 7 3/4 which fits perfectly in that space and its concealed!!!!

I have a perfect plan on attacking it with the help of FBIS DIY and some of my own ideas, but at least I found a way to get the larger tank.

cn555ic · 10-05-2009, 09:54 PM

Now where to place the nozzle.....Everyone is doing it pre-intercooler, but this is what I found doing some searching of possible locations......

Pre-intercooler seems like a sensible nozzle location but, the thing to think about is if the air entering the IC is pre-cooled, the ability of the intercooler is because the temp difference is lesser. It is also possible for the fine water/alcohol mist to collect in the bottom of your intercooler core. We don't recommend this location either. The other problem is that there's a possibility that the hot air from the turbo might unnecessarily vaporize the water and take up some of the volume built up by the turbo that was supposed to be for the charge. Pre-IC does work for some track cars such as road racing that operate at a more constant higher RPM. For the daily driver, weekend racer, the pre-intercooler location should not be considered.

Former_Boosted_IS · 10-06-2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Now where to place the nozzle.....Everyone is doing it pre-intercooler, but this is what I found doing some searching of possible locations......

Pre-intercooler seems like a sensible nozzle location but, the thing to think about is if the air entering the IC is pre-cooled, the ability of the intercooler is because the temp difference is lesser. It is also possible for the fine water/alcohol mist to collect in the bottom of your intercooler core. We don't recommend this location either. The other problem is that there's a possibility that the hot air from the turbo might unnecessarily vaporize the water and take up some of the volume built up by the turbo that was supposed to be for the charge. Pre-IC does work for some track cars such as road racing that operate at a more constant higher RPM. For the daily driver, weekend racer, the pre-intercooler location should not be considered.

You have it backward, everyone is going POST intercooler on the charge pipe. You do not want pooling of methanol in that IC at all.

Former_Boosted_IS · 10-06-2009, 04:48 AM

cn555ic, my setup is kind of different then a lot will use. I have a flow gauge that displays my methanol flow as measure by SafeInjection. Right next to the flow gauge, I have the BMS tuning tool set to display realtime IATs. I also have the stage 3 controller which shows how much flow it is commanding and whether the power nozzle is on. Then in the vent, there is the low level indicator and fail safe light.

The bottom line is that I have a whole lot of ways to monitor what is going on.

marconi118 · 10-06-2009, 04:49 AM

Is it possible to use E85 (85% Ethanol) to spray instead if methanol?

Former_Boosted_IS · 10-06-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marconi118

Is it possible to use E85 (85% Ethanol) to spray instead if methanol?

Say goodnight to your pump if you try that. You do not want anything with gasoline being run through that pump. Straight Ethanol is possible though.

marconi118 · 10-06-2009, 05:31 AM

15% of gasoline?
normally methanol is more agressive than gasoline, are these pumps designed only for water and alcohol?

Methanol is so espensive here, E85 is cheap and readdy to use in france

Former_Boosted_IS · 10-06-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marconi118

15% of gasoline?
normally methanol is more agressive than gasoline, are these pumps designed only for water and alcohol?

Methanol is so espensive here, E85 is cheap and readdy to use in france

You can do what you want, but your entire warranty on your Snow Performance kit will be completely null and void.

Quote:

Do NOT use E85 or any other fluid with gasoline mixed in. It will destroy the fluid delivery part of your Boost Cooler® and instantly void the warranty.

cn555ic · 10-06-2009, 06:27 AM

FBIS your right post intercooler! Here is some info I found:

1 Pre-Turbo water
We don't recommend this location at all if you do not have the proper equipment such as the proper nozzle, nozzle size and high pressure pump. Locating the nozzle here is the most controversial location. The majority of alcohol/water injection users do not use this location. One reason for someone to inject at this location is the water/methanol mixture chemically alters the turbo compressor map. The water/methanol injection will dynamically shifts the compressor map of the turbo so that it has the compressor map exhibits the characteristics of a larger turbo. This sounds great but, the main issue with pre-turbo nozzle placement is what mixture can damage the compressor blade if the mixture is not properly atomized when passing through the turbo.

In order to inject pre-turbo with out compressor damage you need a high quality low volume nozzle and high enough pressure to get the water as finely misted as possible, and the smaller nozzle which allows for smaller/finer water droplets. We recommend you mount the nozzle as close to the compresser as possible.

2 Pre-Intercooler

Pre-intercooler seems like a sensible nozzle location but, the thing to think about is if the air entering the IC is pre-cooled, the ability of the intercooler is because the temp difference is lesser. It is also possible for the fine water/alcohol mist to collect in the bottom of your intercooler core. We don't recommend this location either. The other problem is that there's a possibility that the hot air from the turbo might unnecessarily vaporize the water and take up some of the volume built up by the turbo that was supposed to be for the charge. Pre-IC does work for some track cars such as road racing that operate at a more constant higher RPM. For the daily driver, weekend racer, the pre-intercooler location should not be considered.

3 Post Intercooler
Most computer controlled engines have an intake air temperature (IAT) sensor. This sensor monitors the temperature of the air going into the motor. The reason for putting it before the IAT sensor is because it will see the cooler temps and the engine will advance timing, allowing for more power. Also placing the injection nozzle as far from the cylinders/air intake sensor as possible, it allows for the water/methanol mixture to be better absorbed into the intake air charge. This allows for great distribution to each cylinder. This post intercooler nozzle location should be the primary nozzle location to be considered for most users.

In theory, since the air charge will be mixed for a longer distance, and therefore time, allowing for the moisture to be absorbed by the air, creating the coolest possible air charge going into the cylinders. Water/methanol molecules from a nozzle located here have more time to be absorbed by the intake charge exiting the IC before making it into the combustion chamber.

4 Pre-Air Intake Temperature Sensor
In the cold side charge pipe is usually an easier or less intrusive nozzle location for most user's than the IC exit tank, but still the closer to IC the better. Locating the nozzle here has same as for reason given in above (location 3)

5 After Air Intake Sensor
After the Air Intake Sensor: You can usually mount it either before or after the ‘butterfly' and still be after the air intake temperature sensor. The main difference when mounting the injector before or after the butterfly is there is less vacuum before versus after the butterfly when idling or driving in vacuum. Translation, when in vacuum, there is more vacuum after the butterfly than before it. Here is why this is important: If your solenoid is placed very far from the injectors (more than a couple of feet), then the vacuum can actually suck just a little bit of the water/methanol. This small amount of moisture ingestion during vacuum is not a problem.

6 Intake manifold
This location can be the most complex area to install. Usually requiring that he intake be removed for access. Injecting here is going to yield the largest water/methanol droplets. And with the closer proximity to the combustion chambers is going to provide a larger amount of mixture into the cylinders. Doing this usually requires more fuel from the factory system be removed. This option is best for max cooling.

The water here is being injected in a manner much like port fuel injection and it is the bigger water molecules being injected here that have a more direct effect of in cylinder cooling and injection here has more of an effect of altering the flame front of the combustion charge in a way much like a higher octane fuel. To take full advantage of this nozzle location it is suggested that trimming away some of the factory dumped fuel be done. In other words, in order to take advantage of the better properties of water over fuel for cooling and injecting water at this location, you want to remove the dumped fuel and actually REPLACE this with water. This injection point with a pretty sophisticated WI control method allows for the most advantageous use of water injection. The drawback for nozzles located heres is kit/component complexity, install complexity, additional labor, possible machine shop costs, and possible additional parts costs.

cn555ic · 10-06-2009, 07:18 PM

Snow Performance Boost cooler stage 2 is on B/O for a couple of weeks.

Hit_Apex · 10-06-2009, 08:19 PM

One of the best DIY posts ever - make sure the gods preserve in the correct forum.

Alex@AKMotorwerk · 10-06-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Snow Performance Boost cooler stage 2 is on B/O for a couple of weeks.

yes sir... spoke to them the other day and they are SWAMPED with orders

cn555ic · 10-06-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nj323ci

yes sir... spoke to them the other day and they are SWAMPED with orders

i guess i should have ordered mine with yours!!! Did you get it yet?

HPFREAK · 10-07-2009, 12:38 AM

meth is a great mod. I will be doing on my car in the near future. I had it on my 03 Cobra and it allowed me to run tons of timing and made insane torque along with IAT's that would not increase any where close to as fast as it would without it. When I had snow kit it took a couple of weeks to get it because of B/O's They are really popular.

Former_Boosted_IS · 10-07-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Snow Performance Boost cooler stage 2 is on B/O for a couple of weeks.

cn555ic, that stinks it is on back order, but just get your order in then.

You will love the kit and in the mean time you can prepare the car for the install. That way you are at least in queue.

Former_Boosted_IS · 10-07-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

One of the best DIY posts ever - make sure the gods preserve in the correct forum.

Hit_Apex, thank you very much.

When I was editting this in Word, I was shocked to see it was 66 pages with pictures. LOL!

On a more serious note, I do hope that it can help others making the move on this mod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad@PSI MOTORS

meth is a great mod. I will be doing on my car in the near future. I had it on my 03 Cobra and it allowed me to run tons of timing and made insane torque along with IAT's that would not increase any where close to as fast as it would without it. When I had snow kit it took a couple of weeks to get it because of B/O's They are really popular.

Brad, I 100% agree. I really think this is the biggest power producing mod you can do for a N54 behind only the tune.

cn555ic · 10-07-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

cn555ic, that stinks it is on back order, but just get your order in then.

You will love the kit and in the mean time you can prepare the car for the install. That way you are at least in queue.

Yeah, I have been prepping the car for installation....working out how to tackle the trunk installation part of the install with the pump and tank and running the wires and fuel line....Have it already mapped out, but get a message yesterday from SP that it will be sent out next week, which means I won't get it in my hands for at least two weeks!!

Former_Boosted_IS · 10-07-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Yeah, I have been prepping the car for installation....working out how to tackle the trunk installation part of the install with the pump and tank and running the wires and fuel line....Have it already mapped out, but get a message yesterday from SP that it will be sent out next week, which means I won't get it in my hands for at least two weeks!!

Ahhh, so you did order! Welcome to the family.

It sounds like you ordered in time though. From the rumblings, it appears there are a lot of people making orders for this exact kit now.

The prep work can be done to make the install that much faster. Things like under liner, back seat, door sills, etc. You can grab some Posi-Taps from NAPA, wire extensions, crimp bullets, etc. Where are you going to mount the controller?

Alex@AKMotorwerk · 10-07-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

i guess i should have ordered mine with yours!!! Did you get it yet?

on it's way!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Ahhh, so you did order! Welcome to the family.

It sounds like you ordered in time though. From the rumblings, it appears there are a lot of people making orders for this exact kit now.

The prep work can be done to make the install that much faster. Things like under liner, back seat, door sills, etc. You can grab some Posi-Taps from NAPA, wire extensions, crimp bullets, etc. Where are you going to mount the controller?

i'm pretty sure he went with the Stage 2 kit so no controller to worry about

cn555ic · 10-07-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nj323ci

on it's way!!!

i'm pretty sure he went with the Stage 2 kit so no controller to worry about

I did go with the stage 2, but I think there is a controller along with the safe injection that I bought...FBIS, The controller I want to keep it somewhere inside the cabin, but haven't tackled that just yet...worked on the pump and tank already...next work on the controller....the safe injection I might look into your location, but I want it maybe in the engine bay....Alex here is a pic of stage 2....

Craig@SupremePower · 10-07-2009, 08:56 AM

congrats bro... gotta love new toys!

10-05-2009, 09:07 PM	#134
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	Your right Alex about FBIS that he is using stage 3!! I just looked at my car, and the place to mount the pump that he used is not possible in a E93!!! The hydrolic pump is in that location, and I kind of knew it being that there are two large wire harness going into that picture, and mine has a lid to cover up that hole which the E92 don't!! So I guess I have to place it to the side compartment, there is also a neat feature for the E93 that is perfect for the 2.5 gallon tank, its a space in between the passenger backrest and the trunk, its used for snow ski or anything that requires it have access to the trunk'!!......Snows dimensions won't fit, but Devils Own makes a 2.5 gallon tank that measures 7 3/4 x 12 3/4 x 7 3/4 which fits perfectly in that space and its concealed!!!! I have a perfect plan on attacking it with the help of FBIS DIY and some of my own ideas, but at least I found a way to get the larger tank. Last edited by cn555ic; 10-05-2009 at 09:33 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-05-2009, 09:54 PM	#135
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	Now where to place the nozzle.....Everyone is doing it pre-intercooler, but this is what I found doing some searching of possible locations...... Pre-intercooler seems like a sensible nozzle location but, the thing to think about is if the air entering the IC is pre-cooled, the ability of the intercooler is because the temp difference is lesser. It is also possible for the fine water/alcohol mist to collect in the bottom of your intercooler core. We don't recommend this location either. The other problem is that there's a possibility that the hot air from the turbo might unnecessarily vaporize the water and take up some of the volume built up by the turbo that was supposed to be for the charge. Pre-IC does work for some track cars such as road racing that operate at a more constant higher RPM. For the daily driver, weekend racer, the pre-intercooler location should not be considered.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-06-2009, 04:48 AM	#137
Former_Boosted_IS Major General 307 Rep 5,175 Posts Drives: 4 Wheels Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Planet Earth! iTrader: (15)	cn555ic, my setup is kind of different then a lot will use. I have a flow gauge that displays my methanol flow as measure by SafeInjection. Right next to the flow gauge, I have the BMS tuning tool set to display realtime IATs. I also have the stage 3 controller which shows how much flow it is commanding and whether the power nozzle is on. Then in the vent, there is the low level indicator and fail safe light. The bottom line is that I have a whole lot of ways to monitor what is going on.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-06-2009, 04:49 AM	#138
marconi118 Major 94 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: 06/07 e93 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: europe iTrader: (0)	Is it possible to use E85 (85% Ethanol) to spray instead if methanol?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-06-2009, 05:31 AM	#140
marconi118 Major 94 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: 06/07 e93 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: europe iTrader: (0)	15% of gasoline? normally methanol is more agressive than gasoline, are these pumps designed only for water and alcohol? Methanol is so espensive here, E85 is cheap and readdy to use in france
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-06-2009, 06:27 AM	#142
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	FBIS your right post intercooler! Here is some info I found: 1 Pre-Turbo water We don't recommend this location at all if you do not have the proper equipment such as the proper nozzle, nozzle size and high pressure pump. Locating the nozzle here is the most controversial location. The majority of alcohol/water injection users do not use this location. One reason for someone to inject at this location is the water/methanol mixture chemically alters the turbo compressor map. The water/methanol injection will dynamically shifts the compressor map of the turbo so that it has the compressor map exhibits the characteristics of a larger turbo. This sounds great but, the main issue with pre-turbo nozzle placement is what mixture can damage the compressor blade if the mixture is not properly atomized when passing through the turbo. In order to inject pre-turbo with out compressor damage you need a high quality low volume nozzle and high enough pressure to get the water as finely misted as possible, and the smaller nozzle which allows for smaller/finer water droplets. We recommend you mount the nozzle as close to the compresser as possible. 2 Pre-Intercooler Pre-intercooler seems like a sensible nozzle location but, the thing to think about is if the air entering the IC is pre-cooled, the ability of the intercooler is because the temp difference is lesser. It is also possible for the fine water/alcohol mist to collect in the bottom of your intercooler core. We don't recommend this location either. The other problem is that there's a possibility that the hot air from the turbo might unnecessarily vaporize the water and take up some of the volume built up by the turbo that was supposed to be for the charge. Pre-IC does work for some track cars such as road racing that operate at a more constant higher RPM. For the daily driver, weekend racer, the pre-intercooler location should not be considered. 3 Post Intercooler Most computer controlled engines have an intake air temperature (IAT) sensor. This sensor monitors the temperature of the air going into the motor. The reason for putting it before the IAT sensor is because it will see the cooler temps and the engine will advance timing, allowing for more power. Also placing the injection nozzle as far from the cylinders/air intake sensor as possible, it allows for the water/methanol mixture to be better absorbed into the intake air charge. This allows for great distribution to each cylinder. This post intercooler nozzle location should be the primary nozzle location to be considered for most users. In theory, since the air charge will be mixed for a longer distance, and therefore time, allowing for the moisture to be absorbed by the air, creating the coolest possible air charge going into the cylinders. Water/methanol molecules from a nozzle located here have more time to be absorbed by the intake charge exiting the IC before making it into the combustion chamber. 4 Pre-Air Intake Temperature Sensor In the cold side charge pipe is usually an easier or less intrusive nozzle location for most user's than the IC exit tank, but still the closer to IC the better. Locating the nozzle here has same as for reason given in above (location 3) 5 After Air Intake Sensor After the Air Intake Sensor: You can usually mount it either before or after the ‘butterfly' and still be after the air intake temperature sensor. The main difference when mounting the injector before or after the butterfly is there is less vacuum before versus after the butterfly when idling or driving in vacuum. Translation, when in vacuum, there is more vacuum after the butterfly than before it. Here is why this is important: If your solenoid is placed very far from the injectors (more than a couple of feet), then the vacuum can actually suck just a little bit of the water/methanol. This small amount of moisture ingestion during vacuum is not a problem. 6 Intake manifold This location can be the most complex area to install. Usually requiring that he intake be removed for access. Injecting here is going to yield the largest water/methanol droplets. And with the closer proximity to the combustion chambers is going to provide a larger amount of mixture into the cylinders. Doing this usually requires more fuel from the factory system be removed. This option is best for max cooling. The water here is being injected in a manner much like port fuel injection and it is the bigger water molecules being injected here that have a more direct effect of in cylinder cooling and injection here has more of an effect of altering the flame front of the combustion charge in a way much like a higher octane fuel. To take full advantage of this nozzle location it is suggested that trimming away some of the factory dumped fuel be done. In other words, in order to take advantage of the better properties of water over fuel for cooling and injecting water at this location, you want to remove the dumped fuel and actually REPLACE this with water. This injection point with a pretty sophisticated WI control method allows for the most advantageous use of water injection. The drawback for nozzles located heres is kit/component complexity, install complexity, additional labor, possible machine shop costs, and possible additional parts costs.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-06-2009, 07:18 PM	#143
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	Snow Performance Boost cooler stage 2 is on B/O for a couple of weeks.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-06-2009, 08:19 PM	#144
Hit_Apex Riding the knock sensor 2371 Rep 1,591 Posts Drives: 21 X5MC \| 23 M4CSL Join Date: May 2008 Location: PCH iTrader: (1) Garage List 2021 BMW X5MC [0.00]	One of the best DIY posts ever - make sure the gods preserve in the correct forum. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-07-2009, 12:38 AM	#147
HPFREAK Lieutenant Colonel 63 Rep 1,884 Posts Drives: C6 ZO6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Socal iTrader: (8)	meth is a great mod. I will be doing on my car in the near future. I had it on my 03 Cobra and it allowed me to run tons of timing and made insane torque along with IAT's that would not increase any where close to as fast as it would without it. When I had snow kit it took a couple of weeks to get it because of B/O's They are really popular. __________________ My Youtube Channel
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-07-2009, 08:56 AM	#154
Craig@SupremePower G.O.A.T.! 1000 Rep 74,998 Posts Drives: '18 GMC Yukon XL Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (14)	congrats bro... gotta love new toys!
	Appreciate 0 Quote