[ss134]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Hi Steve. Firstly it's not a case of not liking the M3. I think it has good road presence and does what it's designed to do. I'm also sure you won't be disappointed either tbh as the car will deliver what you're looking for over the 335i which imho is more a grand tourer like the S5 than a sports car in the strictest sense of the term.

The M3 is specifically designed and produced to be more sports orientated, chassis, suspension set up and brakes to name an obvious few. The essentials are also 'beefed up' accordingly.

Why is the M3 not for me........ I've driven three now, all manuals. Admittedly the last one I drove I'd just got out of my 997 Turbo so the M3 had a lot to live up to but I was determined to be objective as I had accepted the Porsche was going to allow us to finish the house, downsize to a smaller property eventually and THEN, get another 997 Turbo I note you've ordered one with DCT and I have to admit I haven't driven one with DCT and maybe I should.

For me the engine is too revvy and lacks torque for my preferred style of driving and in manual guise requires far too much effort for everyday driving. I found the chassis set up good on all three I've driven and they all felt planted and solid at three figure speeds. I wish they'd made the interiors that bit more different form the other 3 Series range, I'd 'lived' with that same interior before on my two beemers and wished it felt more 'special' and set the car apart if that makes sense. Also, all three I've driven have had what I would class as unacceptable rattles on a car of that price tag (doesn't mean to say yours will of course).

Ultimately nothing major, buy enough to hold me back as I felt it would be a compromise too far after the Porsche. Nothing was going to be as fast or as dynamic as the Porsche to drive and have that immense grip and overall adrenalin rush and fun factor........think that covers it lol. Nothing other than another supercar could match the Turbo therefore everyday driveability was more important to me, hence the S5 sits on the drive. It's not a sports car imo but a very competent grand tourer which has surprised me once or twice with what it actually is capable of and sitting inside it is a nice place to be tbh.

At the end of the day it boils down to personal choice and what we all want out of a car. One thing is for sure though, V8 engines DO sound so NICE.

Hi Helen,
Like you said in your post comparing 99.9% of cars on the road to a 911 turbo is going to result in a disappointment - its a 100K supercar! The lack of low down torque is something a lot of people have commented on even in comparison to a remapped 335i let alone a 997 turbo but i feel my disappointment in relation to this will be much less than yours as my 335i is standard and i have never had the pleasure of driving a 997 turbo. The M3 is faster than the 335 but obviously has to be in the right rev range to get the optimum acceleration as opposed to turbo cars with low down torque - this is why i went for DCT (I have always had manual) as with a couple of clicks you can be in the powerband almost instantly.

[willhollin]

Steve, you are in one of the best countries for driving an M3. It will be in it's element!

[ss134]

Originally Posted by ///ajd

Is this with Park Lane?

I found they were always 100% straight with me on Mil/Diplo orders - and if anything they got better / earlier slots than 'normal' UK customers, even on M cars.

I can believe that with so few M3 E90s are being bought in the UK that the Regensburg (?) plant are perhaps facing difficult questions over production volume and scheduling - but perhaps they've sorted it.

I love the E90 version by the way - much cooler than an E92, though as so many prefer the E92 I fear resale may be challenge - how long are you keeping it?

I love that silver leather, but I'd probably chicken out and get black!

I dont think it was a case of the dealer not being straight with me - i genuinley believe they were mis informed, i have ordered cars from them before and like you said never had a problem.

Not sure how long i will keep the car (depends on how much i like it!) at the moment my circumstances allow me to get the car and still retain a comfortable lifestyle, obviously if my circumstances change i will have to re evaluate - there are more important things in life than a car , but at the moment i can afford it and you only live once

E90 M3's are holding there own in comparison to E92's according to Glass's Guide, there is the usual heavy depreciation in the first year but with the deal i got this offsets it somewhat - some 1 year old DCT E90 M3's are up for sale at more than what i paid remember i got a excellent dealer discount plus i pay no tax on the car, if the current used prices remain in the same ballpark for next year then i will probably only lose 1-2K on the car maximum, of course if the economy bottoms out again then it may be different but i am buying this car to enjoy, not as an investment.

As for the silver leather, i have oyster in my 335 and it has not been difficult to maintain so i dont think i will chicken out and get black. If i had gone for white or silver then i would have gone black. Black on black is a bit boring for this car IMO and i dont really like the red or bamboo.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Steve, you are in one of the best countries for driving an M3. It will be in it's element!

Will, i live about 4 hrs from the 'ring - i will have to look into track insurance because without it i dont think i would be able to relax and enjoy myself. I honestly cant wait to get this car on the Autobahn! The engine is in its element at high rpm's and where it may lack that punch while driving around town it will give most cars a run on the 'bahn. I regualrly take the 335 to the max but at top speed it feels a bit floaty and didnt inspire that much confidence -upto 140 mph it is excellent.
Sounds childish i know but the Germans love to give you a run on the autobahn if you have a fast car, and most of the time (as long as the wife isnt in the car!) i am more than happy to oblige -its a lot of fun

Are you still going to be changing your car or have the circumstances changed?

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by ss134

Will, i live about 4 hrs from the 'ring - i will have to look into track insurance because without it i dont think i would be able to relax and enjoy myself. I honestly cant wait to get this car on the Autobahn! The engine is in its element at high rpm's and where it may lack that punch while driving around town it will give most cars a run on the 'bahn. I regualrly take the 335 to the max but at top speed it feels a bit floaty and didnt inspire that much confidence -upto 140 mph it is excellent.
Sounds childish i know but the Germans love to give you a run on the autobahn if you have a fast car, and most of the time (as long as the wife isnt in the car!) i am more than happy to oblige -its a lot of fun

Are you still going to be changing your car or have the circumstances changed?

Yeh the E92 became a bit noisy and scary above 140mph on the Autobahn too, there must be loads of great driving roads in Germany, and no POTHOLES either!!

Car's still going mate.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Yeh the E92 became a bit noisy and scary above 140mph on the Autobahn too, there must be loads of great driving roads in Germany, and no POTHOLES either!!

Car's still going mate.

There are some great roads here but no better than some of the roads in Wales and Scotland. I had a holiday in the South of France last year
and the mountain passes through the Alps were simply amazing - might even go again this year, although its a 10 hr drive and i think i'll have
to stop more regularly to fill up than in the 335 - also i was s***ing myself driving through some of the cities and large towns, its every man for
himself down there -chaos, and most of the cars are small peugeots or citroens that show 'battle damage'! it was not a good experience in a
2 month old car! Once you got out of the town and into the mountains it was amazing though.

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by ss134

Hi Helen,
Like you said in your post comparing 99.9% of cars on the road to a 911 turbo is going to result in a disappointment - its a 100K supercar! The lack of low down torque is something a lot of people have commented on even in comparison to a remapped 335i let alone a 997 turbo but i feel my disappointment in relation to this will be much less than yours as my 335i is standard and i have never had the pleasure of driving a 997 turbo. The M3 is faster than the 335 but obviously has to be in the right rev range to get the optimum acceleration as opposed to turbo cars with low down torque - this is why i went for DCT (I have always had manual) as with a couple of clicks you can be in the powerband almost instantly.

All true Steve and as I currently still prefer a manual gearbox, this influenced my decision amongst other things. The M3 wasn't a disappointment as such though and bear in mind I am looking ahead to the RS5 but they've launched the bugger with their DCT equivalent...........maybe it's the way forward.

Drove through the Vosges mountains last year..........fantastic!!!

[ss134]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

All true Steve and as I currently still prefer a manual gearbox, this influenced my decision amongst other things. The M3 wasn't a disappointment as such though and bear in mind I am looking ahead to the RS5 but they've launched the bugger with their DCT equivalent...........maybe it's the way forward.

Drove through the Vosges mountains last year..........fantastic!!!

Hi Helen,
I have just read Car Magazines first drive of the new RS5 ( i can scan the mag and post it up if you want) and have posted a link to a video review also by car magazine - i must say that i am surprised that you are interested in this car! Torque is only up 20lb ft on the M3 and in the RS5 it comes in higher in the rev range and is only available over a shorter rev range. This is an engine in the same mould as the M3, it needs to be kept above 4000rpm to be at its best. In the magazine article they describe it as a bit detached and a GT car rather than a sports car -a down sized RS6 rather than a RS4. I would bet that with only 20lb ft and 24bhp more than the M3 but weighing 100kg more the performance difference will be a close.
call either way. It is however a fantastic looking car but if you dont like the
M3's high revving nature i can't see how you would like this - it appears to lose the involvement of the M3 in favour of a GT feel but with almost identical engine characteristics of the M3 which you didnt like????

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...deo-road-test/

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by ss134

Hi Helen,
I have just read Car Magazines first drive of the new RS5 ( i can scan the mag and post it up if you want) and have posted a link to a video review also by car magazine - i must say that i am surprised that you are interested in this car! Torque is only up 20lb ft on the M3 and in the RS5 it comes in higher in the rev range and is only available over a shorter rev range. This is an engine in the same mould as the M3, it needs to be kept above 4000rpm to be at its best. In the magazine article they describe it as a bit detached and a GT car rather than a sports car -a down sized RS6 rather than a RS4. I would bet that with only 20lb ft and 24bhp more than the M3 but weighing 100kg more the performance difference will be a close.
call either way. It is however a fantastic looking car but if you dont like the
M3's high revving nature i can't see how you ould like this - it appears to lose the involvement of the M3 in favour of a GT feel but with almost identical engine characteristics of the M3 which you didnt like????

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...deo-road-test/

Those engine characteristics are similar to the M3 I noticed that but also noticed where Audi have placed the torque curves (more road use orientated) albeit not huge (not as torquey as mine), hence imo this is why they've coupled it to a 7 speed dual clutch system.

I have always taken with a relative pinch of salt what journos say doesn't matter what the car tbh. The proof of the pudding etc. so until I actually drive one, I can't comment about the car.

Involvement is a personal opinion and subjective especially when 100% of ones driving is carried out on Her Majestys' highways in all weathers - not a race track.

People keep banging on about the RS5 price tag. Dual clutch as standard equates to extra £2.5k for the M3, the Audi has the important (to me) AWD and the sports differential. When priced up the difference becomes much less. Audi have been tight not giving MMI as standard imo but there are other standard features on the car - swings and roundabouts.

Anyhow, I've been looking at R8 V8's but they don't half hold their value well.

Fickle - moi.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Those engine characteristics are similar to the M3 I noticed that but also noticed where Audi have placed the torque curves (more road use orientated) albeit not huge (not as torquey as mine), hence imo this is why they've coupled it to a 7 speed dual clutch system.

I have always taken with a relative pinch of salt what journos say doesn't matter what the car tbh. The proof of the pudding etc. so until I actually drive one, I can't comment about the car.

Involvement is a personal opinion and subjective especially when 100% of ones driving is carried out on Her Majestys' highways in all weathers - not a race track.

People keep banging on about the RS5 price tag. Dual clutch as standard equates to extra £2.5k for the M3, the Audi has the important (to me) AWD and the sports differential. When priced up the difference becomes much less. Audi have been tight not giving MMI as standard imo but there are other standard features on the car - swings and roundabouts.

Anyhow, I've been looking at R8 V8's but they don't half hold their value well.

Fickle - moi.

Not knocking the RS5 at all, just commenting that you found the lack of low down torque disappointing in the M3 and that the RS5 has almost the same but at a higher rpm and with more weight - i reckon they'd feel similar if you tested the M3 DCT and RS5 dual clutch back to back. I think these gearboxes make the most sense on high revving low torque engines and although like you i prefer a manual i think to get the best out of these cars its a must have.

I havent driven the car so as for road feel etc then youre right to hold out and form your own opinion until after a test drive

BMW are curently offering complimentary DCT on new M3's by the way -so for the time being anyway its also standard

As for the R8...yes please, now youre talking and dont forget that a car that is holding its value well is a good thing, it may cost you to get into it but when you come to sell it you'll be smiling - sort of evens itself out IMO

[beemerbird]

Aye all good points Steve.

Bottom line is, if those 6 friggin numbers would come up then the MO is very simple. Spec. up a 997 Turbo S, do the full in-depth factory tour, the night in the 4* hotel, meet the bloke who builds your engine and say 'Guten Tag' etc. then drive home grinning like a cheshire cat............sorted.

Or for anyone else..............the car they personally would really like and the same scenario.

Think I'll go to bed now lol........reality sucks.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Aye all good points Steve.

Bottom line is, if those 6 friggin numbers would come up then the MO is very simple. Spec. up a 997 Turbo S, do the full in-depth factory tour, the night in the 4* hotel, meet the bloke who builds your engine and say 'Guten Tag' etc. then drive home grinning like a cheshire cat............sorted.

Or for anyone else..............the car they personally would really like and the same scenario.

Think I'll go to bed now lol........reality sucks.

Its nice to dream! think i would go for a RUF porsche if my numbers came in -the ultimate autobahn stormer

[Oli]

Me too!

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Yeh the E92 became a bit noisy and scary above 140mph on the Autobahn too, there must be loads of great driving roads in Germany, and no POTHOLES either!!

Car's still going mate.

I love going off the clock Legally!!!! So awesome!

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by ss134

Its nice to dream! think i would go for a RUF porsche if my numbers came in -the ultimate autobahn stormer

Mmm, nice choice Steve, but in that colour?

Doesn't that car look 'neat' in every sense of the word.

This months Porsche mag has some in depth features about Porsche hybrids spearheaded by the 918 Spyder.........quite a concept lol.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Mmm, nice choice Steve, but in that colour?

Doesn't that car look 'neat' in every sense of the word.

This months Porsche mag has some in depth features about Porsche hybrids spearheaded by the 918 Spyder.........quite a concept lol.

I like that colour on this car! Lets face it if you can afford this car you can afford another car as a daily driver. The 918 gets 90 mpg when driven in the correct mode - unbelievable. There are massive changes in the car industry at the moment, V8 cars getting less than 20 mpg are going to look like dinosaurs in a few years time.

[ss134]

Just an update on my car, it is now in production and is getting its paint applied! Delivery still looks like mid - end July, depending on whether i travel back to the UK to collect or
have it delivered (takes an extra 7 days or so)

I have ordered the 'M3 Edition' satin chrome front and side grills, the dealership should fit them before i take delivery but i won't be shocked to find them in the boot though TBH.

I go on holiday at the beginning of Aug and when i get back i have to go to the UK for a couple of weeks on a course (might take the car), after that i am out of the country fairly regularly until Xmas so i am hoping that mid July is possible to let me get some decent use of the car as next year i am away for 6 months as well.

Theyre still not willing to guarantee that it will be 100% swirl free on delivery due to a new valeting service theyre using, might have to bring the boxing gloves out of retirement.....

[Em135eye]

My word that looks utterly fantastic in that pic!!

LOL at it looks the same as the car you already have

Things must be going well in the Forces for you...

[ss134]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

My word that looks utterly fantastic in that pic!!

LOL at it looks the same as the car you already have

Things must be going well in the Forces for you...

You know what women are like mate - a black BMW with 4 silver wheels are all they see (apart from Helen - better get that in before she does!)

I'm quite lucky really as my wife lets me get what i want car wise, just show her the figures and i'm good to go - she still doesn't realise i'll be lucky to get 18mpg! She also still thinks i've ordered it in midnight blue (a colour i made up to disguise the fact that it is Jerez black- just hope its sunny when i bring it home for the first time!)

[Em135eye]

ss - I like the stealth "deception...!"

I had to use cunning tactics with my much more modest car - started with an Audi A4 3.0TDI (she was anti BMW) then pointed out that it was slower, worse on fuel, heavier, less boot space than a 330d and she bought it - I started "hunting" I then spotted a 335d (which I'd been eyeing up on and off for ages) for a great price and 3 hours later, the deposit was paid.

Each major purchase is a "project" that needs careful "management" - probably the same for most married folk who share the purse strings (well sort of)?!

All good fun.

That M3 is just droolsome though.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

ss - I like the stealth "deception...!"

I had to use cunning tactics with my much more modest car - started with an Audi A4 3.0TDI (she was anti BMW) then pointed out that it was slower, worse on fuel, heavier, less boot space than a 330d and she bought it - I started "hunting" I then spotted a 335d (which I'd been eyeing up on and off for ages) for a great price and 3 hours later, the deposit was paid.

Each major purchase is a "project" that needs careful "management" - probably the same for most married folk who share the purse strings (well sort of)?!

All good fun.

That M3 is just droolsome though.

I like the term 'stealth deception' as opposed to 'lying'! Have never seen an E90 M3 in black IRL so i hope it doesnt disappoint - almost went with AW but i like the stealth factor of black. These next 4 weeks are going to be long.........

[ss134]

Car is now built and has left the factory for the UK - still 3 weeks from delivery i reckon.