[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I agree with you here, the back section is to retard heat soak. I am simply saying that I dont think the whole face is being utilized, this would be only measurable with an infrared sensor and/or wind tunnel. I am going outside to look now.

As I said in a prior post my design engineer partner works in the air cooling industry so we have access to a FlIR camera(forward looking infrared) that will show how the intercoolers work under load! This camera shows basically what the predator sees in the predator movies and gives accurate temperatures anywhere in the screen. And again the face is exposed, i designed the intercooler and have said it and an end user has said it as well in this thread!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

The helix is not fully exposed... At all.

You guys seriously crack me up, an end user has posted in this thread that it is exposed, and there is a pic I took on my car from ground level that shows this through the bumper opening I just need to find it OR if a helix customer can take a front on pic from ground level!

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

The frontal face and the 1st 1/3 of the core thickness, is the part of the intercooler that does most of the cooling in the core! As I have said the upper section on the helix is exposed(go outside and see if 2.5 more inches is exposed above your HPF) the helix face is 56% larger than stock or stock height replacements!

I just went out there, it was blowing 20mph+ with 6 inches of snow so my measurements are not exact by any means but I came up 1.75 inches of space left. And thats being generous. I dont know if I could even fit the Helix fmic in my car bc I have the stainless steel oil cooler lines right above my hpf fmic. I would say to get an accurate measurement you need to take off the front spoiler and measure from the inside bc thats the only TRUE measurement of the area that is exposed to direct/forced air.

[whn]

HPF

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

You guys seriously crack me up, an end user has posted in this thread that it is exposed, and there is a pic I took on my car from ground level that shows this through the bumper opening I just need to find it OR if a helix customer can take a front on pic from ground level!

Maybe with an aftermarket bumper. The stock non m sport bumper doesn't have the height to expose that whole fmic, end of story.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

As I said in a prior post my design engineer partner works in the air cooling industry so we have access to a FlIR camera(forward looking infrared) that will show how the intercoolers work under load! This camera shows basically what the predator sees in the predator movies and gives accurate temperatures anywhere in the screen. And again the face is exposed, i designed the intercooler and have said it and an end user has said it as well in this thread!

Ok if you want to play the picture game, lets do this. Count the number of fins on your IC and then count the ones that are exposed in your installed pic. If you can show me that they equal the same amount, I will shut up.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

The upper section of the helix is fully exposed in the bumper opening as it comes to right under the metal bumper!

Here is an n54 with front end on!



Here is our fmic on an n55 with the front clip off, the fmic stops right under the metal bumper on n54 and n55!

I count 14 black lines/fins on your IC out of the car. I count 9 or 10 on the installed car. BTW in the lower pic, how can you say the whole front face is exposed when the lower part is below the shroud? The lower bumper/spoiler lip is atleast an inch think, thats an additional inch that not DIRECTLY exposed. I understand how physics work, an infared could pick up lower temps on the non-exposed parts bc the cooling spreads throughout the entire IC after some time. I bet you that the exposed parts and the non-exposed parts will have diff temps. Even if it is small, they will be diff.

[skyintothesea]

well thanks info

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I count 14 black lines/fins on your IC out of the car. I count 9 or 10 on the installed car. BTW in the lower pic, how can you say the whole front face is exposed when the lower part is below the shroud? The lower bumper/spoiler lip is atleast an inch think, thats an additional inch that not DIRECTLY exposed. I understand how physics work, an infared could pick up lower temps on the non-exposed parts bc the cooling spreads throughout the entire IC after some time. I bet you that the exposed parts and the non-exposed parts will have diff temps. Even if it is small, they will be diff.

You do realize we maintain stock geometry below the bottom shroud and many of the other fmics including spearco, ams and possibly HPF increase the size below the shroud leaving even less of the core exposed! On these intercoolers a full 1/3 of their heights are not exposed under the shroud! When u come up to do back to back testing I can show you all of these things first hand!
Look at the mounting bracket in this photo that backs up what I am saying look how much higher they are on the ams leaving more of the core unexposed under the lower shroud!

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

You do realize we maintain stock geometry below the bottom shroud and many of the other fmics including spearco, ams and possibly HPF increase the size below the shroud leaving even less of the core exposed! On these intercoolers a full 1/3 of their heights are not exposed under the shroud! When u come up to do back to back testing I can show you all of these things first hand!

As i said b4, I cant wait. HPF does not sit below that. Its about as factory as anyone makes. I do agree with you that a little is tucked under the lip. Im just saying that I think the Helix would produce better figures if the frontal plate werent so big. I guess only time will tell. I am a numbers junky so believe me, I am loyal to NO ONE. I am loyal to the BEST product. I will be the first to switch if the numbers are swaying toward Helix.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

You do realize we maintain stock geometry below the bottom shroud and many of the other fmics including spearco, ams and possibly HPF increase the size below the shroud leaving even less of the core exposed! On these intercoolers a full 1/3 of their heights are not exposed under the shroud! When u come up to do back to back testing I can show you all of these things first hand!

I want to see hard facts with logs. So we need to get dynos and logs done. Also first you said it was all exposed now you say it's not, I don't really care, I'm not trying to argue with you. I am just saying it is not completely exposed.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

As i said b4, I cant wait. HPF does not sit below that. Its about as factory as anyone makes. I do agree with you that a little is tucked under the lip. Im just saying that I think the Helix would produce better figures if the frontal plate werent so big. I guess only time will tell. I am a numbers junky so believe me, I am loyal to NO ONE. I am loyal to the BEST product. I will be the first to switch if the numbers are swaying toward Helix.

I know you are man, I just don't understand how HPF has "brainwashed" people into believing that a shorter thicker intercooler with less exposed face is superior to one that is not
This seriously goes against correct intercooling engineering knowledge. If you don't believe me read the multitude of information available online and in books such as maximum boost. An intercooler is a heatsink and it's cooling medium is the ambient air and the surface area that is exposed to it.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

I want to see hard facts with logs. So we need to get dynos and logs done. Also first you said it was all exposed now you say it's not, I don't really care, I'm not trying to argue with you. I am just saying it is not completely exposed.

oh but i do like to argue, thanks for pointing out that he initially said it was fully exposed then it wasnt. Thats besides the point, its like you said, about the hard facts. Atleast we will have some facts soon on dynos. I will be going next sat. to do 3 pulls with my mods, no meth, atleast one pull with race fuel. Stay posted for numbers...There will be 20+ guys going, im sure one of them will have Helix fmic, I would like to see how they compare. It will be in DC if anyone else wants to come that isnt too far. Again, Jan. 8th.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

I want to see hard facts with logs. So we need to get dynos and logs done. Also first you said it was all exposed now you say it's not, I don't really care, I'm not trying to argue with you. I am just saying it is not completely exposed.

Penn has agreed to back to back testing once temps get back to warm here! And we will do comparison logs and he can control the laptop so no one can cry foul! What I said is that the core above the lower shroud is exposed to frontal air! I did post a pic taken from ground level that shows this on my car but I can't find it! On your own car you can go see for yourself the helix height stops about 1/4" below the air condition condenser(thin radiator behind the bumper)

[Topless///M]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Maybe with an aftermarket bumper. The stock non m sport bumper doesn't have the height to expose that whole fmic, end of story.

Here's your end of story (stock bumper):

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

I know you are man, I just don't understand how HPF has "brainwashed" people into believing that a shorter thicker intercooler with less exposed face is superior to one that is not
This seriously goes against correct intercooling engineering knowledge. If you don't believe me read the multitude of information available online and in books such as maximum boost. An intercooler is a heatsink and it's cooling medium is the ambient air and the surface area that is exposed to it.

I trust HPF bc 1) past success with the s54, 2) they sacrifice nothing in terms of power(including cost) 3) their design looks better to me. Im not saying Helix is bad at all, as I said its my #2 pick. Maybe this will change when it comes testing time, either way I will have the best IC on the market with the facts to back it up, I love it. I just think there is UNDERUTILIZED space in there with the Helix, maybe my tuning theory is wrong, its just about who I trust based on the facts I was given thus far..

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Topless///M

Here's your end of story (stock bumper):

Thanks for posting the pics

[Penn999]

Dude, seriously...do you think Im dumb?? Those pics are from BOGUS angles. It needs to be a straight on shot. I can get in there and show you that the shitty AA, big tom, Stett, and cxracing fmic(which its not) is FULLY exposed to ambient airflow if I take BOGUS camera angles like that. Come on...that did not help prove your point at all.

AGAIN, I COUNT 10 exposed black lines/fins. THATS NOT 14! The first pic shows 10.5 fins showing.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Topless///M

Here's your end of story (stock bumper):

We don't want angled pictures!

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Penn999

oh but i do like to argue, thanks for pointing out that he initially said it was fully exposed then it wasnt. Thats besides the point, its like you said, about the hard facts. Atleast we will have some facts soon on dynos. I will be going next sat. to do 3 pulls with my mods, no meth, atleast one pull with race fuel. Stay posted for numbers...There will be 20 guys going, im sure one of them will have Helix fmic, I would like to see how they compare. It will be in DC if anyone else wants to come that isnt too far. Again, Jan. 8th.

Make sure you get one with 93 octane. And a good baseline so no one bitches.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

We don't want angled pictures!

Im starting to gain more and more respect from you my man. Good brains think alike

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I trust HPF bc 1) past success with the s54, 2) they sacrifice nothing in terms of power(including cost) 3) their design looks better to me. Im not saying Helix is bad at all, as I said its my #2 pick. Maybe this will change when it comes testing time, either way I will have the best IC on the market with the facts to back it up, I love it. I just think there is UNDERUTILIZED space in there with the Helix, maybe my tuning theory is wrong, its just about who I trust based on the facts I was given thus far..

Please do some reading on intercooler engineering and design, start with maximum boost it's a pretty easy read for the laymen, 21st century performance is also a good read! The helix actually utilizes every square inch available for the ambient face! I am confident in the Helix outperforming the HPF or any stock height replacement Intercooler as physics are on our side, once you read the aforementioned books you will understand what I mean by that! Cheers it's time to dig myself out of 2' of snow