[Alan l.]

The first code is due to the AP. Nothing important

I just got a ignition glow code (cylinder 6) running the Cobb v201 93 map on my 6MT car with 10k miles on it. Engine mods = Cobb AP, Injen Intake and RPi Exhaust.

I felt the car stutter during a second gear WOT pull right around 4k rpms which the freeze frame data from the BT tool verified. Happened twice within 10mins of driving both in second gear under WOT. The AP didn't even register the code but my BT Tool picked it up under shadow codes. No idea what happened and nothing changed on the car besides just getting an oil change and brakes flushed just prior. The weather was a little warmer today (50's) and the car was idling for a period of time earlier.

I use to get this code with the procede v4 if my boost was over 14psi. At 14 it would be fine. With the latest Cobb maps I noticed that boost shoots up like crazy during early part of the rev range and tampering off as the revs climb. Since they are targeting load I'm wondering with the warmer weather its causing my car to overboost to the point that it knocks? My logs always showed my car would have throttle closure because it would overshoot boost but everything would look spot on. Car always felt great but most if not all of my cobb testing was during winter temps ~30 degrees. I'm really wondering if boost would climb too high as the weather gets warmer and warmer.

After clearing out the codes with the BT Tool, I went ahead and switched down to the 91octane map and swapped out my injen intake for the oem unit. Car doesn't feel as fast but zero issues and feels normal. No more stuttering from the limited testing that I was able to do safely. Managed to get one good log. 3rd gear at about 3K rpm to 7K shift into 4th gear while still on the throttle for a few seconds. Looks similar to my earlier logs running the 93 octane map and the car felt normal. No weird stutter.

Sent Rob and email and waiting for his response.

This was the log I did AFTER i switched down from the 93 to 91 octane map. I wasn't logging when i got the initial glow code running the 93 map.

Boost and Timing is on the secondary axis

[cn555ic]

Hmm thats a first I have heard of Cobb knocking to the point of setting off an Ignition glow code, and I do remember when you had one with Procede earlier last year...Why did you change out the Injen intake to the OEM one...I think Clap and others would have a better understanding of what happened...Its pretty strange since Cobb stage one is on the conservative side...

[Alan l.]

From what i understand the Cobb flash will up boost to a point as the weather gets warmer out to maintain a certain level of power output just like how a stock car would. Most of the logs that we've seen with the AP the boost # look lower because the car needs less of it since the temp outside was so cold. This is how i understand the flash is designed to work from experienced members here and my emails with Rob at Cobb.

Now that its starting to get warmer out i'm wondering if the cobb flash will become too aggressive for stock cars (not FBO) especially when we start seeing 90+ weather over the summer. I took out my Injen intake just to test it out since i'm sure it has some impact on AIT. Seems like more than a few members here tested their DCI vs stock box with the Cobb tune and didn't see any benefits. If there arent any gains for people like me who run ~14-15psi of boost then I rather use the stock box and suck in cooler air.

[COBB Tuning]

Sorry to hear you've having issues Alan. Thanks for emailing Rob, we appreciate the chance to address this for you.

Best-
Lance

[SennaZ]

With your scaling it's real hard to see the load, could you re-scale it? Also, would be nice to see a plot of WDC. IIRC, your engine seems to like using the throttle to trim overboosting, especially that around 4000.

Could just be cylinder 6. What was your peak boost? (hard to tell from the graph).

[Alan l.]

Still a newb at graphing. This one is the same run but shows just the 3-7K pull in 3rd without the post shift log. Added WGDC%

Boost, Map psi, Req. Boost, Boost Abs is on the secondary axis (right axis). Again this is the run after i switched down from the 93 to 91 octane map.

[mithiral67]

my fourth gear pulls with dps and fmic are pretty much identical to that.

I have a dyno scheduled next Sunday, really curious to see how that looks power wise.

The boost climb at 4k being knocked down by the throttle plate bothers me. Then again, i am stage 2 mods using stage 1 ots.

[Clap135]

Without seeing a log of the actual event, it is pretty hard to guess what exactly happened. Based on the log you posted though, everything looks perfect timing wise. You mentioned that you use to get this on the procede as well. Was it the same cylinder? I don't know what year your car is, but does it fall under the injector recall? If the 6th injector is weak, that cylinder can knock under conditions that it normal shouldnt. Personally my tune hasnt changed with the temps.

Then only wierd thing is that your throttle closure occurs right at 4k which is were it stuttered. I am not exactly sure what happens when the throttle slams shut, but I am assuming the ECU does alot more then just closes throttle, it probably cuts fuel as well. Problem with this might be that if you close the throttle because boost is overshot, boost actually overshoots more, so the camber still sees boost while cutting fuel which is not a good thing. This is all speculation on my part

[Clap135]

Another weird thing that made me state the above, according to the BT snap shop, your relative load was 0 when it knocked. It is kind of hard to make a car knock when load is 0, assuming that relative load is actual load.

[Alan l.]

Thanks for the insight Clap.

My car is a July 2009 build so I don't think its part of the injector recall. I've gotten the glow code with the V4 twice before and it was cylinder 3 and 6 on two separate occasions. If i recall it was also around 4K rpm. With the V4 as long as i set the initial boost to no more than 14psi the code wouldn't come back. I tried 14.5psi and got it again. This was during the peak summer months where heat and humidity was an issue.

I'll run the 91 octane map for a little bit until i hear back from Rob. Seems like there will be new maps releasing soon so I might as well wait for that. The Cobb v101 and V201 maps feels very different on my car. 101 was more linear and smooth while 201 is a lot more jumpy. Strange thing is that some people feel the same way while others don't. Makes me wonder if different ecu/software plays a role in this odd behavior.

I remember when the 09 LCI's first came out the piggies had boost occilations on the newer cars while the older cars were completely fine. Looking at my old logs compared to todays is about 20 degrees difference ambient and manifold temps.

Alan

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Another weird thing that made me state the above, according to the BT snap shop, your relative load was 0 when it knocked. It is kind of hard to make a car knock when load is 0, assuming that relative load is actual load.

I'm wondering if its possible that it shows 0 load is due to the timing that it captured the data because when this happens...it feels as if i completely let off the throttle for a split second then back on again. Feels like the car cut power to protect itself but i had it floored the entire time.

[EDM92]

Hey Alan, sorry to hear about your problem. I don't have any help for you, but I do have a few questions, if you don't mind.

1. Can't the COBB also read and clear the codes that you are reading and clearing with the BT tool? I was always under the impression it could.

2. Even if there is a code, you can always revert back to stock ecu map and the codes should not reappear, correct? (unless the problem persists, regardless of the tune)

Thanks!

[boom]

Do you have a log of the target boost? That spike in the middle of 3rd at ~4k is weird and I can't tell if it's a spike BECAUSE the throttle closed or if the throttle closed because the boost spiked. My guess is the former and your target boost would show this.

I'm interested in the injector theory that clap pointed to. That would be a convenient explanation. That 0% load in the bt scan is doesn't make sense but the bt guys may not have all the information right in their pid deciphering.

Subscribed.

[bulldog_yyc]

how many miles on the spark plugs?

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by boom

Do you have a log of the target boost? That spike in the middle of 3rd at ~4k is weird and I can't tell if it's a spike BECAUSE the throttle closed or if the throttle closed because the boost spiked. My guess is the former and your target boost would show this.

I'm interested in the injector theory that clap pointed to. That would be a convenient explanation. That 0% load in the bt scan is doesn't make sense but the bt guys may not have all the information right in their pid deciphering.

Subscribed.

I updated the second chart to show more values. Looking at my previous logs during cold weather testing on the 93 octane V101 map I always have throttle closures around that 4K mark and sometimes below but never after.

My WGDC % also dips right where the boost spike occurs. What could this mean?

I am wondering if my Injen (hot air intake) could be doing more harm than good with the cobb tune. Maybe for guys running high boost running an intake has some benefits but useless for guys like me. These logs were done with the stock intake in place.

thanks,
Alan

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by BMWorNOTHING

Hey Alan, sorry to hear about your problem. I don't have any help for you, but I do have a few questions, if you don't mind.

1. Can't the COBB also read and clear the codes that you are reading and clearing with the BT tool? I was always under the impression it could.

2. Even if there is a code, you can always revert back to stock ecu map and the codes should not reappear, correct? (unless the problem persists, regardless of the tune)

Thanks!

From my experience the Cobb unit can not read everything that the BT tool can. The first thing i did after noticing the stutter was plug in my AP and check for codes. Nothing came up except for the "code missing" one. When i plugged in my BT Tool the ignition glow code came up under the shadow code section.

As for reverting back to stock to clear all codes i'm not sure. Someone with existing codes would have to try this or let Cobb chime in.

Alan

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by turkish335

how many miles on the spark plugs?

Car has about 10K on it. Never missfired or anything.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I wonder if this has anything to do with a weak injector perhaps.

It says 4000K RPM @ 0 load which is odd.

What is also odd is your intake temperatures arent that high at all at about ~115F

Perhaps you might want to pull the spark plug after an event like that and see if it shows anything.

Is your car due for any recalls? Software update? HPFP? ETC?

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I wonder if this has anything to do with a weak injector perhaps.

It says 4000K RPM @ 0 load which is odd.

What is also odd is your intake temperatures arent that high at all at about ~115F

Perhaps you might want to pull the spark plug after an event like that and see if it shows anything.

Is your car due for any recalls? Software update? HPFP? ETC?

I got my software updated a few months ago along with the latest HPFP.

I think the problem here is that my car seems boost happy on the Cobb tune in the early part of the rpm band. All of my logs on either v101 93octane or the V201 maps show throttle closures and always up to about 4K where it stops. When i sent my logs to Rob he didn't see anything abnormal and said i looked similar to the cobb's shop car which is also close to my cars build date. I don't mind the TC because i don't feel it and Cobb basically acknowledged they use this method for boost control but it seems like its passing some type of threshold which the car doesn't like. I'm wondering as the temps rise for everyone would we start to see peak boost rise as well?

When i asked Cobb about why their stage 1 tune has lower boost numbers compared to piggies awhile back I was basically told its lower now because of the weather. Needs less boost to hit load targets. If that is the case then it should be the opposite as the weather gets warmer.

[SennaZ]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Still a newb at graphing.
Only boost is on the secondary axis (right axis). Again this is the run after i switched down from the 93 to 91 octane map.

Oh, didn't realize that. I think to make much sense of it, we would really need to see the 93 octane map. However, that boost spike is not only unusual but also getting up into 'dangerous' territory [unless its an artifact of the throttle closure].

Your WGDC is running quite a bit less than mine and its response to the boost spike seems anemic - I wonder if your wastegates are just alot stiffer and don't use the electronic control system as much.

I'm a real advocate of taking CTCV (cylinder-to-cylinder-variation) into consideration, and again, it may be that your #6 needs to pull alot more timing when the boost spikes at 4000 rpm.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I got my software updated a few months ago along with the latest HPFP.

I think the problem here is that my car seems boost happy on the Cobb tune in the early part of the rpm band. All of my logs on either v101 93octane or the V201 maps show throttle closures and always up to about 4K where it stops. When i sent my logs to Rob he didn't see anything abnormal and said i looked similar to the cobb's shop car which is also close to my cars build date. I don't mind the TC because i don't feel it and Cobb basically acknowledged they use this method for boost control but it seems like its passing some type of threshold which the car doesn't like. I'm wondering as the temps rise for everyone would we start to see peak boost rise as well?

When i asked Cobb about why their stage 1 tune has lower boost numbers compared to piggies awhile back I was basically told its lower now because of the weather. Needs less boost to hit load targets. If that is the case then it should be the opposite as the weather gets warmer.

Didnt they make a map that isnt as aggressive with boost that had a more linear feel for boost as opposed to throwing a ton of boost in at once?

Edit- its not surprise that some cars are more boost happy if you take into consideration the differences between cars and their wastegate stiffness. I dont think this is the cause of the glow ignition just yet. But it is something to note.

[cn555ic]

When I hear glow ignition it makes me cringe! Hope you get it addressed...Damn the East Coast guys here lately, have alot of issues with their cars! I guess the warmer weather doesn't help!