Front Camber Plate Choices

BayernMuenchen · 07-09-2008, 07:07 PM

As much as it hurts me, I need to delay the install of my KWv3's until I find a good front caster plate that will fit my E92. I received the KMAC Stage2 kit I had ordered from Turner, but after looking it over, I do not want to install it into my car. Couple of reasons.
Looks like some really poor manufacturing. Things do not line up correctly and are poorly machined.
The plates do NOT let you adjust just the camber. To adjust anything, you need to loosen the whole top plate and then can freely move the top of the strut around, hence changing caster (and your alignment). I was hoping for a way to adjust just the camber, without affecting the caster.

So that being said, what are my other choices? The only ones I've found so far are:
TCKline
Vorshlag
Ground Effects is supposed to have one available soon

Any others? Any experiences with any of them?

Thanks for any input.

leftcoastman · 07-09-2008, 08:04 PM

I've got the TCK and absolutely love them. I run with TCK coilovers and am not sure the plates will work with other systems, but call TC and check.

I see in your pic that you are D group. If that's BMWCCA classing, I highly recommend staying stock save for cheaper street tires. He who stays stock longest and works on driving skill....is the one who is ultimately faster.

One of the organizations I teach with does not allow R-comps for beginners or intermediates. Another organization will allow a first timer to show up with Rcomps/rollcage/gutted car/etc. The advanced guys in the first organization will absolutely destroy the advanced guys in the latter organization. I'd put $1000 on it.

Lower grip teaches you car control skills. Higher grip simply masks your mistakes.

That said, if you can get TCK and can deal with clunking that comes with solid mounts, go for it when/if you're ready.

Oh and FYI - I set it at near max caster, roughly -1.3 for street and slight toe in. Once I get ready for track, I slam it to -3.5, toe goes to zero and caster doesn't change. I then go out and hunt 911s, R8s, E92 M3, etc. I tried to hunt C6 Z06s, but that's like banging your head on a brick wall, lol.

sg335 · 07-09-2008, 11:43 PM

TCK's will not work with the KW's unless you covert to constant diameter 60mm springs.

Kmac adjustment is fine. You want max caster anyways on those so just set the camber where you want it and push the plate diagnally so they both adjust on the same plane. This caster change will not affect your allignment.

hov333 · 07-09-2008, 11:49 PM

so this is for track use I'm assuming? I have V3's and the rest is stock. I am dropped pretty low (no gap on front tires) and therefore have -2.0 camber on the fronts. Can you elaborate a little more? thanks!

BayernMuenchen · 07-10-2008, 02:16 AM

Basically I'm looking for the ability to adjust the camber for track days. So ideally I'm looking for a camber front plate that is compatible with the kwv3's and that allow for just the tuning of the camber without messing with the castor.

As sg335 eluded to, I am confused by the huge size of the kw spring. It so far doesnt match any of the camber plates that I've seen. The standard seems to be about 60mm and the v3 kw springs are way wider than that (or I'm measuring them wrong).

Yeah, Leftcoastman, I completely understand where you are coming from. That picture was taken at my first BMW CCA event, so was forced into the D group. I run in the B's now and have had instructors recommend me for the A's. I'm no Michael Schumacher or anything, but I am looking for gains in my car as well as myself.

Orb · 07-10-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayernMuenchen

Basically I'm looking for the ability to adjust the camber for track days. So ideally I'm looking for a camber front plate that is compatible with the kwv3's and that allow for just the tuning of the camber without messing with the castor.

As sg335 eluded to, I am confused by the huge size of the kw spring. It so far doesnt match any of the camber plates that I've seen. The standard seems to be about 60mm and the v3 kw springs are way wider than that (or I'm measuring them wrong).

Yeah, Leftcoastman, I completely understand where you are coming from. That picture was taken at my first BMW CCA event, so was forced into the D group. I run in the B's now and have had instructors recommend me for the A's. I'm no Michael Schumacher or anything, but I am looking for gains in my car as well as myself.

The Vorshlag e36 camber plates do fit and will fine but they don’t have spring hat yet. The spring hats they use are just OEM that is modified to accept a thrust bearing. I don’t think it would take much effort to do a custom one if you asked them. The stock OEM isolation mount does have a impact on the dampening rates and in use it will deflect up to 10 mm with static load and additional 6 mm in compression mode. You will need to go softer on low speed compression dampening and a bit on rebound as well.

Orb

leftcoastman · 07-10-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayernMuenchen

Yeah, Leftcoastman, I completely understand where you are coming from. That picture was taken at my first BMW CCA event, so was forced into the D group. I run in the B's now and have had instructors recommend me for the A's. I'm no Michael Schumacher or anything, but I am looking for gains in my car as well as myself.

Ok, get the plates, then. You will love them.

Call TCK as they sell both the vorshlag and their own brand. Pete will give you solid advice - they are racers - not boulevard cruisers, so they will point you in the right direction.

leftcoastman · 07-10-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hov333

so this is for track use I'm assuming? I have V3's and the rest is stock. I am dropped pretty low (no gap on front tires) and therefore have -2.0 camber on the fronts. Can you elaborate a little more? thanks!

OP - for track use, I would caution against slamming the car to get more negative camber.

The degradation in performance as a result of suboptimal suspension angles that result from slamming a car will far defeat any gains from additional negative camber.

HOV - no offense to you. I'm sure it's very nice looking on the street, but it isn't the best setup for the track. Careful with messing with the stock rake also, you're setting yourself up for some nasty snap oversteer.

jeho · 07-10-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

The stock OEM isolation mount does have a impact on the dampening rates and in use it will deflect up to 10 mm with static load and additional 6 mm in compression mode. You will need to go softer on low speed compression dampening and a bit on rebound as well.

Orb

so the added 6mm means there will be more preload (stiffer coils)

yeah i emailed vorshlag and they said it would work with the KW as long as you get the Oem spring hats they sell that are modified...

^^ what would be a downside in using these since they are modified OEM to accept a thrust bearing in a more simple explaination?? will it shorten the life of these modified spring hats?

btw
I plan on getting these any day now...

Orb · 07-10-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jho86

yeah i emailed vorshlag and they said it would work with the KW as long as you get the Oem spring hats they sell that are modified...

^^ what would be a downside in using these since they are modified OEM to accept a thrust bearing in a more simple explaination?? will it kill the life of these modified spring hats? louder noises from the camber plates compared to ones that are specifically designed?
I plan on getting these any day now...

I’m not sure if any of the spring hats are the right size unless you send them sample to measure against what they have. The thing that will change is that you car will sit higher as it will not sage 10 mm as it does with the OEM isolators. The car will be defiantly louder on impacts. By removing the isolator higher frequency vibration will emulates thru the car. The vibration/noise is such when you hit a bump you initial impact noise but the higher frequency vibration will continue after the bump. This type of noise or more like high pitched buzz. I can’t tell you what the severity will be but leftcostman might be able give some feedback which should be similar.

Orb

leftcoastman · 07-10-2008, 10:38 AM

With TCKs, I get clicking sometimes but more often I get a thud or light clunk. I'm used to it now but it certainly is louder than stock.

But goddummm it makes the car much sharper, too once you remove the rubber in the strut mount.

sg335 · 07-10-2008, 11:16 AM

Almost all of the coilover for this car utilize a stock shaped top portion of the spring (very large and fits into the stock upper perch/bearing assembly, and a 60mm/2.25"/or 2.5" lower portion ID size that sits on the lower adjustable spring perch. The confusion comes in when you see manufacturer photos for generic systems (like KWV3) which show constant diameter springs (60mm).

Why are you so concerned about not changing caster? Please explain why you think this is bad.

jeho · 07-11-2008, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

The thing that will change is that you car will sit higher as it will not sage 10 mm as it does with the OEM isolators.
Orb

that being said, since i have kw v2 and i cant adjust compression. Since it will be 10mm higher, my preload would be REDUCED right since for the kw v2, the lower it is the more compressed...?

BayernMuenchen · 07-11-2008, 12:36 PM

It's not that I think adjusting caster is bad, I just dont want to inadvertanly change it when I'm changing camber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg335

Almost all of the coilover for this car utilize a stock shaped top portion of the spring (very large and fits into the stock upper perch/bearing assembly, and a 60mm/2.25"/or 2.5" lower portion ID size that sits on the lower adjustable spring perch. The confusion comes in when you see manufacturer photos for generic systems (like KWV3) which show constant diameter springs (60mm).

Why are you so concerned about not changing caster? Please explain why you think this is bad.

sg335 · 07-11-2008, 08:05 PM

That is not a problem. You want maximum caster especially at the track. I have owned Kmacs before and they are extremely easy to adjust. As you dial in your desired camber setting, just make sure you are exerting pressure towards the fire wall to ensure max caster on both sides. The plate will slide at an angle inward and back on the diagnal. You can't screw this up.

07-09-2008, 07:07 PM	#1
BayernMuenchen Second Lieutenant 13 Rep 247 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Encinitas, CA iTrader: (0)	Front Camber Plate Choices As much as it hurts me, I need to delay the install of my KWv3's until I find a good front caster plate that will fit my E92. I received the KMAC Stage2 kit I had ordered from Turner, but after looking it over, I do not want to install it into my car. Couple of reasons. Looks like some really poor manufacturing. Things do not line up correctly and are poorly machined. The plates do NOT let you adjust just the camber. To adjust anything, you need to loosen the whole top plate and then can freely move the top of the strut around, hence changing caster (and your alignment). I was hoping for a way to adjust just the camber, without affecting the caster. So that being said, what are my other choices? The only ones I've found so far are: TCKline Vorshlag Ground Effects is supposed to have one available soon Any others? Any experiences with any of them? Thanks for any input. __________________ 2007 335i Coupe
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07-09-2008, 08:04 PM	#2
leftcoastman Lieutenant Colonel 52 Rep 1,714 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Near some canyons iTrader: (1)	I've got the TCK and absolutely love them. I run with TCK coilovers and am not sure the plates will work with other systems, but call TC and check. I see in your pic that you are D group. If that's BMWCCA classing, I highly recommend staying stock save for cheaper street tires. He who stays stock longest and works on driving skill....is the one who is ultimately faster. One of the organizations I teach with does not allow R-comps for beginners or intermediates. Another organization will allow a first timer to show up with Rcomps/rollcage/gutted car/etc. The advanced guys in the first organization will absolutely destroy the advanced guys in the latter organization. I'd put $1000 on it. Lower grip teaches you car control skills. Higher grip simply masks your mistakes. That said, if you can get TCK and can deal with clunking that comes with solid mounts, go for it when/if you're ready. Oh and FYI - I set it at near max caster, roughly -1.3 for street and slight toe in. Once I get ready for track, I slam it to -3.5, toe goes to zero and caster doesn't change. I then go out and hunt 911s, R8s, E92 M3, etc. I tried to hunt C6 Z06s, but that's like banging your head on a brick wall, lol.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-09-2008, 11:43 PM	#3
sg335 Captain 52 Rep 648 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	TCK's will not work with the KW's unless you covert to constant diameter 60mm springs. Kmac adjustment is fine. You want max caster anyways on those so just set the camber where you want it and push the plate diagnally so they both adjust on the same plane. This caster change will not affect your allignment.
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07-09-2008, 11:49 PM	#4
hov333 Major 63 Rep 1,003 Posts Drives: 2016 M5 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (1)	so this is for track use I'm assuming? I have V3's and the rest is stock. I am dropped pretty low (no gap on front tires) and therefore have -2.0 camber on the fronts. Can you elaborate a little more? thanks!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-10-2008, 02:16 AM	#5
BayernMuenchen Second Lieutenant 13 Rep 247 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Encinitas, CA iTrader: (0)	Basically I'm looking for the ability to adjust the camber for track days. So ideally I'm looking for a camber front plate that is compatible with the kwv3's and that allow for just the tuning of the camber without messing with the castor. As sg335 eluded to, I am confused by the huge size of the kw spring. It so far doesnt match any of the camber plates that I've seen. The standard seems to be about 60mm and the v3 kw springs are way wider than that (or I'm measuring them wrong). Yeah, Leftcoastman, I completely understand where you are coming from. That picture was taken at my first BMW CCA event, so was forced into the D group. I run in the B's now and have had instructors recommend me for the A's. I'm no Michael Schumacher or anything, but I am looking for gains in my car as well as myself. __________________ 2007 335i Coupe
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-10-2008, 10:38 AM	#11
leftcoastman Lieutenant Colonel 52 Rep 1,714 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Near some canyons iTrader: (1)	With TCKs, I get clicking sometimes but more often I get a thud or light clunk. I'm used to it now but it certainly is louder than stock. But goddummm it makes the car much sharper, too once you remove the rubber in the strut mount.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-10-2008, 11:16 AM	#12
sg335 Captain 52 Rep 648 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	Almost all of the coilover for this car utilize a stock shaped top portion of the spring (very large and fits into the stock upper perch/bearing assembly, and a 60mm/2.25"/or 2.5" lower portion ID size that sits on the lower adjustable spring perch. The confusion comes in when you see manufacturer photos for generic systems (like KWV3) which show constant diameter springs (60mm). Why are you so concerned about not changing caster? Please explain why you think this is bad.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-11-2008, 08:05 PM	#15
sg335 Captain 52 Rep 648 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	That is not a problem. You want maximum caster especially at the track. I have owned Kmacs before and they are extremely easy to adjust. As you dial in your desired camber setting, just make sure you are exerting pressure towards the fire wall to ensure max caster on both sides. The plate will slide at an angle inward and back on the diagnal. You can't screw this up.
	Appreciate 0 Quote