[dlf750]

in some ways I agree but still love them. But I do tend to switch between Audi and BMW, almost every other car. i have an A8L now, an LR4 and a 2009 335ic. The Audi has had the least issues and it's a 2013 with 65k miles on it. So far the BMW has been flawless, but I've only had this one a month or two. The LR4 is good but it will have a $3k repair at some point in the next 2 years, they all have that I've owned, that's when I trade it in.

[doubletee]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I wanted to appreciate your post, and I do for the most part. But any of the BMWs made after 2012 (post the E90) that I've driven, I can't say the issues are worth the trade-off for the "feel"; BMW has lost its DNA.

Precisely why I've hung onto my 2006 E90 330i. Still have the "feel" without all of the technological marvels that tend to overly complicate the newer models.

[Bob Shiftright]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'd say the radio/audio system in your car has some systemic issue with the wiring if the radio and amp units keep failing. Some of the other stuff are common issues, which with BMWs I've found they all develop and the fixes are well known. What you can experience with a BMW is once you get the problems sorted out, the cars a well built with good materials and are worth keeping for a long time and extended mileage levels (that has been my experience so far after 30 years) . But I'm with you, I need my cars need to be 3-pedal, but my friend we are the very few and the market, for many reasons, is not going to cater to us here in the near future. What brought me to BMW long ago was the in-line 6 engine, manual trans, and rear drive. BWM rarely builds these anymore. The turbo engines have no soul regardless of configuration.

You brought up the Volt earlier. I'm not sure you've driven one, or any electric, but what I found with the electric drivetrain is it actually drives like a manual in that it is always in the "right" gear because of the torque characteristics of the electric motor. For the modern car the Volt is actually a nice drive. I can't speak to the Gen2 version, but the Gen 1 was entertaining as compared to something not (previously) built by BMW. I'm not defending the Volt or suggesting you buy one by any means, but I just wanted to frame your previous comment about it. When you look at the Volt in comparison to other current cars (I think they all suck BTW), it's better than the average. The F3X 430i Grand Coupe I just had as a loaner this past Friday completely sucked and I contend was not built by the BMW company I am familiar with.

My dealer replaced multiple radio heads, multiple amps and did multiple software updates ovder the years.

The final software update seems to have done it. So I suspect it was the software all along. (Although the door speaker seemed to be the last gasp by the poltergeist on its way out.)

I want a rear hatch and a manual transmission. (And more than 200 HP.) Other than a VW, I can't think of much that's left out there.

The Volt may be fine for what it is. But I'm not ready for an electric car.

I've been driving Eurocars with manual transmissions for most of my life. None have been very reliable.

The only reliable car with a manual transmission that I've ever owned was my Acura.

And it had no soul.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Bob Shiftright

I purchased the "Platinum" extended warranty. BMW covered a lot of repairs. They didn't earn much if any money with this one.

Under both the original and extended warranty -- electrical poltergeists, mainly. Several radios. Software updates. The stereo amplifier. The car is on it's third or fourth amp. Batteries. The battery cable recall. Some $1000 gizmo that's involved in the stability control. The serpentine belt tensionser. The sunroof. The driver's seat cover was replaced early on -- defective cow. Passenger seat occupancy sensor. Probably a bunch of other stuff that I've forgotten.

My best failure yet was driving back from Thanksgiving dinner several years ago and I was telling my daughter -- who is a saner person who drives a Honda Accord -- that BMWs are a lot of fun to drive and "really not all that unreliable" (she was having trouble stopping herself from laughing!) At that exact moment, deus ex machina, the BMW spirits intervened, the radio quit, half the radio display went blank, and the other half showed machine gibberish.

I thought the dealer was pretty good about fixing complaints, but now that I've been poking around the car more myself since it's out of warranty, I think they probably averaged breaking something for every time they've fixed something. That is, they don't tell you when they break a bolt off (I found one where the tech broke the bolt, actually began to tap it to remove it, and then must have said "Screw it, this is hardened steel and it's gonna take me forever to tap, three bolts is enough to hold this on.")

As noted above, my original battery was replaced by the dealer under the "courtesy" warranty program over 7 years ago. Since that time, I was careful to use a trickle charger. Earlier this year, my trickle charger gave me an error code and shut itself off, as did a second trickle charger. My big charger charged up the battery but the next morning the voltage was under 12 volts.

If it looks like a duck, right? No big deal, the battery was more than 7 years old.

I dropped it off at my indy for battery replacement and when I picked the car up, he told me that the car had a lead acid battery in it, but it came from the factory with an AGM battery -- I thought only 'verts and M Cars came with AGMs but apparently my car is optioned heavily enough and so it did.

But the interesting info was that my dealer hadn't changed the coding so the car was coded for an AGM battery, not the lead acid one that they used for a replacement. And it still lasted more than 7 years.

Also, I needed to replace the windshield this year. Not BMW's fault, but it was the weirdest crack I've ever had in a windshield -- at the bottom below the wipers. And a bunch of small trim and interior parts. Both cup holders (one broke but BMW changed the trim's appearance. I replaced the right rear door speaker this year. (Plus a couple of trim clips that I broke.)

I had the airbag recall done earlier this month. So far I haven't found anything that they broke.

Will I buy another one?

No.

BMW spared me that decision by discontinuing station wagons and SUVs with manual gearboxes in the US. I can't buy another one, even if I want too. I admit that I've considered an M2 -- but I really need that rear hatch.

So I'm not sure what I can buy next. Any ideas?

The car must have three pedals! I'm leaning towards a Golf R. (Yes, I know that going from a 328i to a VW is going from the frying pan into the fire as far as service and reliability.)

That’s more than the average amount of failures. Don’t hear of many cars with that amount of electrical issues. And yeah, dealerships are con artists. If their screw up is buried behind a bunch of panels you can expect they didn’t go the extra mile

Love the Golf R and would like to try one on for size one day! Wishing better luck to ya.

[fleetfoot]

Originally Posted by BravoJohny33

Its not that the non turbo models are not reliable. Its that you seem to get ripped off on every little repair. 350+ dollars for spark plugs wtf?

Spark plugs took me about an hour and cost $47. I've done almost everything myself or under warranty, and I'm not a skilled mechanic. You can check out my noob-level work list here:
http://www.motorlogbook.com/fleetfoot15/328E92

The toughest/most expensive part of ownership has been the tires and alignments. Well-rated independent shops in Atlanta have scratched my wheels and done poor alignments TWICE that I had to have fixed at the dealer. Lesson learned: suck it up and have your tires installed at the dealer the first time. You'll save time and money.

I had some engine smoothness issues this summer, but that's mostly fixed after doing some easy maintenance: clean VANOS solenoids, clean MAF sensor, swap plugs, fuel cleaner. I'm not sure if this is normal for 70K miles, or if my AA tune caused premature fouling. I've still got an occasionally rough idle, but probably just going to live with it. What do you think?

[BravoJohny33]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

Spark plugs took me about an hour and cost $47. I've done almost everything myself or under warranty, and I'm not a skilled mechanic. You can check out my noob-level work list here:
http://www.motorlogbook.com/fleetfoot15/328E92

The toughest/most expensive part of ownership has been the tires and alignments. Well-rated independent shops in Atlanta have scratched my wheels and done poor alignments TWICE that I had to have fixed at the dealer. Lesson learned: suck it up and have your tires installed at the dealer the first time. You'll save time and money.

I had some engine smoothness issues this summer, but that's mostly fixed after doing some easy maintenance: clean VANOS solenoids, clean MAF sensor, swap plugs, fuel cleaner. I'm not sure if this is normal for 70K miles, or if my AA tune caused premature fouling. I've still got an occasionally rough idle, but probably just going to live with it. What do you think?

I switched to cheaper tires. Yokahama Summer Tires that are like 400 installed. They work fine and from a good company. I am lucky and have not had any problems with tires installs or balance. They always seem to do a good job but I have had problems with the alignment. Drives me insane but I paid for lifetime alignment so I just take it back a month later and get it done for free again lol.

[fleetfoot]

I found that I prefer all-seasons with the floods on 285 from Atlanta thunderstorms. So I don't mind paying a little more for tires that handle water better and last longer.

It blows my mind that these independent shops with fancy alignment machines and up-charges for "sport" alignments can't seem to get things right at all. One shop used E46 wagon alignment specs on my E92 coupe...and they scratched my wheels

[Desertraptor]

Originally Posted by cybermgm23

you're probably going to be disappointed. I'm seeing more and more posters on here whining about the reliability of BMW. Well sorry to burst your bubble kids, but you should be buying a BMW for the driving experience, not for reliability. Either have deep pockets or a really good warranty. Otherwise, don't buy a bmw. When I bout my 328i, I knew going in, driving a BMW is like having a super model girlfriend/boyfriend, looks good and fun to drive, but super high maintenance.

On a scale of 1 to 10 of super models where does a BMW sit

A ten for me would be a MacLaren

[Desertraptor]

I guess it's too much to ask a high end car manufacturer to produce a quality reliable vehicle?
Having only purchased my first a few weeks back, it's already booked in for a check up on what I hope is a minor oil leak at 115,000 km.

I have a 1999 Nissan Pathfinder for camping that has only developed and oil leak after 300,000 km.

[Desertraptor]

Originally Posted by Bob Shiftright

My dealer replaced multiple radio heads, multiple amps and did multiple software updates ovder the years.

The final software update seems to have done it. So I suspect it was the software all along. (Although the door speaker seemed to be the last gasp by the poltergeist on its way out.)

I want a rear hatch and a manual transmission. (And more than 200 HP.) Other than a VW, I can't think of much that's left out there.

The Volt may be fine for what it is. But I'm not ready for an electric car.

I've been driving Eurocars with manual transmissions for most of my life. None have been very reliable.

The only reliable car with a manual transmission that I've ever owned was my Acura.

And it had no soul.

What's the resale value on an electric car knowing at some point there will be a big expensive battery system to buy.
2nd buyer maybe but depreciation will see electric vehicles drop so far it wont be worth a 3 buyers time. someone is going to be left with a dud.

[Efthreeoh]

Just was out today for a 300+ mile road trip in my wife's 20-year old Z3. And that's after a 2-week, 5,400-mile road trip out west just last month. Yeah, I've done a bunch of work on it to keep it in service, but I'll put it up against any other 20 year old car. Most 20 year old cars you can't even get parts for.

[TheBigChill]

This 1st post is typical BMW apologist nonsense.

The things that fail on BMW's aren't related to the things that make them fun. Perhaps the only exception here is, I don't know, LCAB's or something... There's no reason a company can't make a car that's both reliable and fun-to-drive; plenty of others do it. German engineering is awful, and the only exception there is driving dynamics, and frankly, even that has gone to shit with their newer offerings. Constant and common issues with injectors, coils, water pumps, software, brittle plastics, I could go on.

Not to mention, BMW is among the worst when it comes to ensuring that Right To Repair for consumers is made as unappealing as possible. Sorry bud, but these cars aren't so good that the issues are justified or overshadowed.

[BravoJohny33]

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by TheBigChill

This 1st post is typical BMW apologist nonsense.

The things that fail on BMW's aren't related to the things that make them fun. Perhaps the only exception here is, I don't know, LCAB's or something... There's no reason a company can't make a car that's both reliable and fun-to-drive; plenty of others do it. German engineering is awful, and the only exception there is driving dynamics, and frankly, even that has gone to shit with their newer offerings. Constant and common issues with injectors, coils, water pumps, software, brittle plastics, I could go on.

Not to mention, BMW is among the worst when it comes to ensuring that Right To Repair for consumers is made as unappealing as possible. Sorry bud, but these cars aren't so good that the issues are justified or overshadowed.

Then go drive another car?

I don't get the point of complaining on a BMW car enthusiast forum when BMW doesn't read it, anything you say doesn't affect future BMW products, and we don't really care if you don't like the car. We're too busy enjoying ours.

[BravoJohny33]

Originally Posted by TheBigChill

This 1st post is typical BMW apologist nonsense.

The things that fail on BMW's aren't related to the things that make them fun. Perhaps the only exception here is, I don't know, LCAB's or something... There's no reason a company can't make a car that's both reliable and fun-to-drive; plenty of others do it. German engineering is awful, and the only exception there is driving dynamics, and frankly, even that has gone to shit with their newer offerings. Constant and common issues with injectors, coils, water pumps, software, brittle plastics, I could go on.

Not to mention, BMW is among the worst when it comes to ensuring that Right To Repair for consumers is made as unappealing as possible. Sorry bud, but these cars aren't so good that the issues are justified or overshadowed.

BMW used to make more reliable cars.

[TylerJamesInc]

Here's my useless comment in this useless thread.

[Jesda]

Faults are entirely forgivable if a car is great to drive. I miss my older BMWs.

My E93 is both a bore and a chore and I'll be getting rid of it.

[Jesda]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

Then go drive another car?

I don't get the point of complaining on a BMW car enthusiast forum when BMW doesn't read it, anything you say doesn't affect future BMW products, and we don't really care if you don't like the car. We're too busy enjoying ours.

It's a discussion forum. If you want filtered cheerleading find a mirror.

[Jesda]

Originally Posted by Desertraptor

What's the resale value on an electric car knowing at some point there will be a big expensive battery system to buy.
2nd buyer maybe but depreciation will see electric vehicles drop so far it wont be worth a 3 buyers time. someone is going to be left with a dud.

The aftermarket has made replacement battery packs surprisingly cheap.

[F22_Raptor]

BMW:
Bavarian Motor Works
Brings Me Women
Bring More Wrenches
Break My Wallet

[TheBigChill]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

Then go drive another car?

I don't get the point of complaining on a BMW car enthusiast forum when BMW doesn't read it, anything you say doesn't affect future BMW products, and we don't really care if you don't like the car. We're too busy enjoying ours.

I'm 35 and this is my 17th car, and most have been high performance in one respect or another. My BMW honestly has been fine up to this point, but the reality still exists that the components that most often break on a modern BMW have NOTHING to do with the fun-to-drive quotient. Wrap your head around that.

I like the car just fine, frankly. Fan boys of any make or model need to understand that just because you like something, that doesn't mean other things aren't true about the car; poor reliability for example. As a mechanical engineer, I can tell you that nearly everything on this car is over-engineered but in the wrong way, which is to say that it's not built to last, it's instead built for unnecessary complexity with zero benefit from doing so.

[TheBigChill]

Originally Posted by BravoJohny33

BMW used to make more reliable cars.

Agreed. I firmly believe that it's not engineering complexity for increased safety nor fuel efficiency that is making them less reliable; it's instead BMW's loathing of the Right To Repair Act, and the concept of owners doing their own maintenance. This is fairly well documented. actually.