Is This "Sueable"?

TWiTCHY · 06-28-2009, 02:56 AM

I'm not serious, lol, but I found someone using one of my photos, clearly labeled with my watermark, in their Craigslist ad.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/1243396249.html

First photo.

So is it? Just wondering, I'm not actually going to sue the guy

Here's the original:

asdflkijd · 06-28-2009, 03:21 AM

Don't think so... the watermark just says that you took the photo.. Yes you may own it, but I think you have to have some sort of copyright/ trademark for you to take any legal action against them. But what the hell do I know? lol

TWiTCHY · 06-28-2009, 03:25 AM

This is the kind of stuff that I don't understand. If something like this were to happen - obviously, something much more significant in which your photos were used for the purpose of bringing in profit - what would you do?

Vudoo4u2 · 06-28-2009, 03:54 AM

the photo is yours, and if you truly wanted to pursue this...legally you could

TurboFan · 06-28-2009, 08:56 AM

Did you shoot the photo for the person? If you shot it for them and gave it to them, you may be SOL. If not then yes, you can pursue for damages, but I don't know how far you'll get. You may want to send an e-mail to craigs list and identify it. They'll make him take it down.

InsaneSkippy · 06-28-2009, 09:31 AM

Yes you CAN do something about it, but in all honesty it's really not worth your time. Unless it's a company using the image to sell a product.

rodi · 06-28-2009, 10:31 AM

even if you give the photo to someone, the copyright will always be yours.
even if they hire you and pay you for a photo to use, the copyright is still yours.
unless you sign away specifically the ownership rights and copyright, it will always be yours.

TWiTCHY · 06-28-2009, 02:15 PM

Nope, never gave the photo to anyone...but would the accused defend by saying that they never gave me permission to take photos of them?

Vudoo4u2 · 06-28-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWiTCHY

Nope, never gave the photo to anyone...but would the accused defend by saying that they never gave me permission to take photos of them?

I imagine since they used your photo willingly, their argument wouldnt hold in court. Essentially they would be saying...

"Well, I didnt give you permission to photograph me but since I saw the pic and it was me I decided to use it in my automotive sales ad"

TWiTCHY · 06-28-2009, 02:40 PM

Or
"...but then again, I never gave you permission to use my photo in your ad."

Vudoo4u2 · 06-28-2009, 02:43 PM

it comes down to...they used a photo with your copyright mark on it..and even if you didnt stash that little type on the bottom of the photo, its still yours and they cant use it without your permission.

they cant argue that you didnt have permission to take photos of them b/c they came to a car meet to show off their car...someone taking photos of it, is a normal expectation of a car meet

, pretty much implied consent unless they had put a sign around it that said "no photos"

TurboFan · 06-28-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWiTCHY

Nope, never gave the photo to anyone...but would the accused defend by saying that they never gave me permission to take photos of them?

If they are in public, they can be photographed without permission. Plenty of case law to support this.

1013mm · 06-28-2009, 04:14 PM

just let him have the photo of his car, its not like hes getting mass profit from it...

TWiTCHY · 06-28-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboFan

If they are in public, they can be photographed without permission. Plenty of case law to support this.

Unless they specifically state that they don't want to be photographed, right?

DemiGuru · 06-28-2009, 04:58 PM

I thought you wanted to sue him for what he did to the car

TurboFan · 06-28-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWiTCHY

Unless they specifically state that they don't want to be photographed, right?

Nope. If that was the case, the paparazzi would be out of business.

FStop7 · 06-28-2009, 06:26 PM

Sue them for what? There is no cause. You own the photo and you can ask them to take it down, but LOL @ the idea of getting money out of them for it.

You are not Ansel Adams, your photos are not gold.

TurboFan · 06-28-2009, 06:57 PM

Um, cause? This is a civil issue, not a criminal issue. He could actually sue for a portion of the procedes of the sale of the car advertised by his photo.

The law protects any photographer without note of their skill or professional reputation.

TWiTCHY · 06-28-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FStop7

Sue them for what? There is no cause. You own the photo and you can ask them to take it down, but LOL @ the idea of getting money out of them for it.

You are not Ansel Adams, your photos are not gold.

In terms of what they represent, my photos and Adam's photos are the same thing at the end of the day; pieces of property, only to be used under the original owner's permission. I highly doubt the photographic quality of a photo would be judged to determine whether its owner should be able to sue or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboFan

The law protects any photographer without note of their skill or professional reputation.

radix · 06-29-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdflkijd

Don't think so... the watermark just says that you took the photo.. Yes you may own it, but I think you have to have some sort of copyright/ trademark for you to take any legal action against them. But what the hell do I know? lol

IANAL, but I do have some fundamental knowledge of copyright law as the issues pertaining to it are pertinent to my profession.

Trademarks are for brand names. As far as copyright goes, an photographer automatically has the copyright to any work he produces. If you take a picture, *bam*, it's copyrighted for you. If you write an article or a book, same thing, it's automatically copyrighted for you. The exception to this is if you are working on behalf of a company, in which case the copyright would belong to the company for which you are working.

In short, that photo is the OPs copyrighted material, and the person using it is infringing on his copyright unless the use falls under "fair use". If it doesn't the first step would be to send a DMCA takedown notice to the infringer.

As others have commented, it's probably not worth it in this case however.

TWiTCHY · 06-29-2009, 03:09 AM

^ haha love your avatar and the movie...just saw it.

dcstep · 06-29-2009, 01:49 PM

Twitchy has a copyright and he's posted it right on the picture. I agree, there's little to be gained by claiming a portion of the proceeds from selling that POS, but he has the right.

For extra protection you can use sites that prevent download without payment. The guy that takes pictures of the BMW club's autocrosses around here uses such a site. He charges for pictures in a number of styles and then will let you license the image for $101. He has one that I'd like to license, but the license on my own computer won't let me show it beyond my family, so, for instance, I couldn't show it here. It wouldn't even be legal for me to email a copy to my brother, which I'd want to do. For that kind of fee I want more options, but that's where he set his price.

However, I just read an article about protecting your copyright. Even if it's just getting the offender to remove the piece, the author argued that it's worth defending your position. He, a professional, said to always go for money; otherwise, people will just use your work, expecting not to get caught and thinking they'll just remove it without consequence. Sueing IS expensive, he warned. I think it was in Shutterbug Magazine if anyone want to look for it.

Dave

06-28-2009, 02:56 AM	#1
TWiTCHY Colonel 376 Rep 2,526 Posts Drives: '13 AW E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: WA iTrader: (6)	Is This "Sueable"? I'm not serious, lol, but I found someone using one of my photos, clearly labeled with my watermark, in their Craigslist ad. http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/1243396249.html First photo. So is it? Just wondering, I'm not actually going to sue the guy Here's the original:
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06-28-2009, 03:21 AM	#2
asdflkijd Aberry is a scammer 556 Rep 5,507 Posts Drives: SGM E92 335i, AM E90 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (14) Garage List 2008 E92 335i [10.00] 2007 E90 335i (Reti ... [9.00]	Don't think so... the watermark just says that you took the photo.. Yes you may own it, but I think you have to have some sort of copyright/ trademark for you to take any legal action against them. But what the hell do I know? lol
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06-28-2009, 03:25 AM	#3
TWiTCHY Colonel 376 Rep 2,526 Posts Drives: '13 AW E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: WA iTrader: (6)	This is the kind of stuff that I don't understand. If something like this were to happen - obviously, something much more significant in which your photos were used for the purpose of bringing in profit - what would you do?
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06-28-2009, 03:54 AM	#4
Vudoo4u2 Night Sh1ft 458 Rep 3,079 Posts Drives: F95 X5MC LCI Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: It's bobsled time iTrader: (3) Garage List 2024 BMW X5M Compet ... [0.00]	the photo is yours, and if you truly wanted to pursue this...legally you could __________________ "Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.” ― Henri Cartier-Bresson
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06-28-2009, 08:56 AM	#5
TurboFan Ski bum 317 Rep 6,198 Posts Drives: sideways Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Knee deep in the pow iTrader: (8)	Did you shoot the photo for the person? If you shot it for them and gave it to them, you may be SOL. If not then yes, you can pursue for damages, but I don't know how far you'll get. You may want to send an e-mail to craigs list and identify it. They'll make him take it down. __________________ 1999 e46 328i Ti Silver / Black[retired] 2007 e90 335xi Jet Black / Black[retired] 2011 e70 X5 35d Vermillion Red / Cinnamon 2011 e92 M3 LeMans / Fox Red extended
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06-28-2009, 09:31 AM	#6
InsaneSkippy Lieutenant Colonel 79 Rep 1,597 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida iTrader: (1)	Yes you CAN do something about it, but in all honesty it's really not worth your time. Unless it's a company using the image to sell a product. __________________
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06-28-2009, 10:31 AM	#7
rodi . . . 181 Rep 2,391 Posts Drives: your FACE! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Atlanta proper iTrader: (-1)	even if you give the photo to someone, the copyright will always be yours. even if they hire you and pay you for a photo to use, the copyright is still yours. unless you sign away specifically the ownership rights and copyright, it will always be yours. __________________ 2009 135i \| space grey \| sport \| navi \| hifi \| heated dinan stage 2 software \| bmw performance exhaust kw v2 \| hotchkis front sway \| vmr v710
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06-28-2009, 02:15 PM	#8
TWiTCHY Colonel 376 Rep 2,526 Posts Drives: '13 AW E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: WA iTrader: (6)	Nope, never gave the photo to anyone...but would the accused defend by saying that they never gave me permission to take photos of them?
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06-28-2009, 02:40 PM	#10
TWiTCHY Colonel 376 Rep 2,526 Posts Drives: '13 AW E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: WA iTrader: (6)	Or "...but then again, I never gave you permission to use my photo in your ad."
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06-28-2009, 02:43 PM	#11
Vudoo4u2 Night Sh1ft 458 Rep 3,079 Posts Drives: F95 X5MC LCI Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: It's bobsled time iTrader: (3) Garage List 2024 BMW X5M Compet ... [0.00]	it comes down to...they used a photo with your copyright mark on it..and even if you didnt stash that little type on the bottom of the photo, its still yours and they cant use it without your permission. they cant argue that you didnt have permission to take photos of them b/c they came to a car meet to show off their car...someone taking photos of it, is a normal expectation of a car meet , pretty much implied consent unless they had put a sign around it that said "no photos" __________________ "Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.” ― Henri Cartier-Bresson
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06-28-2009, 04:14 PM	#13
1013mm aka 1013MM 1246 Rep 9,545 Posts Drives: pokingly flush Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Los Angeles / HK iTrader: (7) Garage List 2009 135i [8.26]	just let him have the photo of his car, its not like hes getting mass profit from it... __________________ -John Project YOSHI Sale Thread
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06-28-2009, 04:58 PM	#15
DemiGuru Addicted to Speed 0 Rep 3 Posts Drives: E90 335i 6MT ZSP/ZPP/ZCW Join Date: May 2009 Location: Undisclosed Location iTrader: (0)	I thought you wanted to sue him for what he did to the car
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06-28-2009, 06:26 PM	#17
FStop7 I like cars 329 Rep 5,052 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park, CA iTrader: (3)	Sue them for what? There is no cause. You own the photo and you can ask them to take it down, but LOL @ the idea of getting money out of them for it. You are not Ansel Adams, your photos are not gold. __________________ My photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/racelap/
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06-28-2009, 06:57 PM	#18
TurboFan Ski bum 317 Rep 6,198 Posts Drives: sideways Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Knee deep in the pow iTrader: (8)	Um, cause? This is a civil issue, not a criminal issue. He could actually sue for a portion of the procedes of the sale of the car advertised by his photo. The law protects any photographer without note of their skill or professional reputation. __________________ 1999 e46 328i Ti Silver / Black[retired] 2007 e90 335xi Jet Black / Black[retired] 2011 e70 X5 35d Vermillion Red / Cinnamon 2011 e92 M3 LeMans / Fox Red extended
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06-29-2009, 03:09 AM	#21
TWiTCHY Colonel 376 Rep 2,526 Posts Drives: '13 AW E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: WA iTrader: (6)	^ haha love your avatar and the movie...just saw it.
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06-29-2009, 01:49 PM	#22
dcstep Major General 1290 Rep 7,389 Posts Drives: '09 Cpe Silverstone FR 6MT Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 M3 [8.40]	Twitchy has a copyright and he's posted it right on the picture. I agree, there's little to be gained by claiming a portion of the proceeds from selling that POS, but he has the right. For extra protection you can use sites that prevent download without payment. The guy that takes pictures of the BMW club's autocrosses around here uses such a site. He charges for pictures in a number of styles and then will let you license the image for $101. He has one that I'd like to license, but the license on my own computer won't let me show it beyond my family, so, for instance, I couldn't show it here. It wouldn't even be legal for me to email a copy to my brother, which I'd want to do. For that kind of fee I want more options, but that's where he set his price. However, I just read an article about protecting your copyright. Even if it's just getting the offender to remove the piece, the author argued that it's worth defending your position. He, a professional, said to always go for money; otherwise, people will just use your work, expecting not to get caught and thinking they'll just remove it without consequence. Sueing IS expensive, he warned. I think it was in Shutterbug Magazine if anyone want to look for it. Dave __________________ Flickr Photos Ucm, Inc.
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