[raisemyrent]

Originally Posted by gary88

lmFao

[Uma1r]

This must be JB's finest race ever. I didn't think he had it in him but he certainly proved that he is capable of good driving. MS also had a superb race and was unlucky not to be on the podium.

It was good to see SV on the 2nd step for a change! Can't wait for Silverstone!!

[E86Z]

I think MS is just a spectacular wet conditions driver, not many can touch him even with far faster cars. As soon as it all dried up he was loosing 3-4 seconds a lap.

[raisemyrent]

the rainmaster himself

[F1Flagger]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Seriously a disgrace of Formula 1, the least prepared team.
In Australia, they failed to get the car ready, and only able to get ONE car doing one "flying lap" in Q1. And got kicked out of the race on 107% rule.

In most of the races this season they were lurking around the back and causing trouble to the front runners. They fail to recognize the front runners who are lapping almost 3-4 secs a lap quicker.

They also fail in development race and bringing proper upgrades to each race. Small team structure is NOT an excuse, Virgin, Lotus, STR and RBR in years ago are small team as well.

Sooner or later we will see some pole sitter and front running collide with an HRT or very slow backmarkers.....who failed to get the F out of the way and causing the front runners a championship.

Comments like these show what little understanding you guys really have of F1 and what it takes!
HRT had FOUR months to finish the car over the Winter with around 25 people total on the design staff! The whole "Dallara" had to be "reverse engineered" before they could even begin to make any upgrades to it. So are they slower than an "RB-7 ?? YES!
They just started to use Mercedes' wind tunnel this month! They are working on a VERY steep learning curve!

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by F1Flagger

Comments like these show what little understanding you guys really have of F1 and what it takes!
HRT had FOUR months to finish the car over the Winter with around 25 people total on the design staff! The whole "Dallara" had to be "reverse engineered" before they could even begin to make any upgrades to it. So are they slower than an "RB-7 ?? YES!
They just started to use Mercedes' wind tunnel this month! They are working on a VERY steep learning curve!

And you showed us you have a big heart and believe F1 should tolerate slow teams to participate. Good for you.

For teams unable to alert the drivers and confused about what tires they fitted during a pit stop doesn't show me they are good enough. And the driver fail to recognize they are being lapped and hogging the racing line doesn't impress me either. And these has nothing to do with or without enough time to prepare the car.

Steep learning curve doesn't justify the confusion of pit stops and blocking lapping cars for no reason.

Apparently they gave up this season (like last year), and focus on the 2012 car. If they start to challenge to mid-field, I'd be very impressed. But continuously hovering around the 107% rule and FIA grant them to race on Sunday just makes me mad. (Same to Virgin)...

I feel sorry for them but I'm sick and tired of seeing teams so unprepared without last minute technical error...just simply not ready!!!

[F1Flagger]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I can tolerate Virgin. They are at least legitimately trying to improve.


HRT on the other hand doesn't even have a development center. That is shameful.

Remember HRT finished ahead of Virgin in the '10 Championship.

[F1Flagger]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

And you showed us you have a big heart and believe F1 should tolerate slow teams to participate. Good for you.

For teams unable to alert the drivers and confused about what tires they fitted during a pit stop doesn't show me they are good enough. And the driver fail to recognize they are being lapped and hogging the racing line doesn't impress me either. And these has nothing to do with or without enough time to prepare the car.

Steep learning curve doesn't justify the confusion of pit stops and blocking lapping cars for no reason.

Apparently they gave up this season (like last year), and focus on the 2012 car. If they start to challenge to mid-field, I'd be very impressed. But continuously hovering around the 107% rule and FIA grant them to race on Sunday just makes me mad. (Same to Virgin)...

I feel sorry for them but I'm sick and tired of seeing teams so unprepared without last minute technical error...just simply not ready!!!

What must be remembered is that the life blood of F! is the independent Teams. Remember "Toleman"? (Toleman became Bennetton, who became Renault F1) "Stewart Grand Prix" Both of their cars erupted in flames , their frist showing on the grid. (Stewart became Jag who became Red Bull) Then Minardi who failed to make the 107 percent rule something like 13 times!
("Minardi" is now "Toro Rosso".
Yes the team is new and needs experience. That is where you get it! By Racing and competing and working at beating the better Teams. Show some patience, respect what each of the new Teams overcame to get where they are. Do you history.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by F1Flagger

What must be remembered is that the life blood of F! is the independent Teams. Remember "Toleman"? (Toleman became Bennetton, who became Renault F1) "Stewart Grand Prix" Both of their cars erupted in flames , their frist showing on the grid. (Stewart became Jag who became Red Bull) Then Minardi who failed to make the 107 percent rule something like 13 times!
("Minardi" is now "Toro Rosso".
Yes the team is new and needs experience. That is where you get it! By Racing and competing and working at beating the better Teams. Show some patience, respect what each of the new Teams overcame to get where they are. Do you history.

Correct, but having said that. Expense and cost to run F1 races are more expensive now than back in the days. I'm sure HRT has their ways to go around it without losing too much performance, and hopefully without swapping drivers every weekend depends on their financial backing or paid-drivers.

I do hope they turn into something good before the Super Aguri effect hits them. Keep in mind they do not have too much sponsors, just TATA automobile at the moment if I remember correctly.

[F1Flagger]

Exactly We all must remember the economic environmental climate we are in.
Teams such a "Williams" can not find the sponsorships to correctly fund their team let alone HRT and Virgin!

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by F1Flagger

Comments like these show what little understanding you guys really have of F1 and what it takes!
HRT had FOUR months to finish the car over the Winter with around 25 people total on the design staff! The whole "Dallara" had to be "reverse engineered" before they could even begin to make any upgrades to it. So are they slower than an "RB-7 ?? YES!
They just started to use Mercedes' wind tunnel this month! They are working on a VERY steep learning curve!

I may disagree with E90 from time to time, but dismissing his opinion on the basis of 'understanding' of the sport is a low blow. Many of us have been following the sport for years, if not decades.

HRT's pace is simply unacceptable. They are lapping with times on par with GP2 cars - they literally are not even in the same class as the other Formula 1 cars. To be this far off the pace after a season and a half, and to struggle to even make the 107% rule, is a disgrace. Having a team that much slower is also a hazard to the other drivers; as a marshal, you should recognize this. There is no excuse for any of this - they have had just as much preparation time and lead time as Lotus and Virgin since the start of the '10 season.

IMO, if they cannot consistently qualify w/in the 107% rule for the rest of the championship (barring any mechanical issues), they should be dropped next season in favor of another new team.

[raisemyrent]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

And you showed us you have a big heart and believe F1 should tolerate slow teams to participate. Good for you.

For teams unable to alert the drivers and confused about what tires they fitted during a pit stop doesn't show me they are good enough. And the driver fail to recognize they are being lapped and hogging the racing line doesn't impress me either. And these has nothing to do with or without enough time to prepare the car.

Steep learning curve doesn't justify the confusion of pit stops and blocking lapping cars for no reason.

Apparently they gave up this season (like last year), and focus on the 2012 car. If they start to challenge to mid-field, I'd be very impressed. But continuously hovering around the 107% rule and FIA grant them to race on Sunday just makes me mad. (Same to Virgin)...

I feel sorry for them but I'm sick and tired of seeing teams so unprepared without last minute technical error...just simply not ready!!!

it happens to the best, Red Bull fit the wrong tyres onto Vettel in Monaco, so he had to stay out to have a chance to win the race. It's red bull, so he did. but the mistake remains.

they're focussing on next year mainly because they barely made the grid after they got rid of shit-chassis dallara and had to reverse engineer the product that they left them. Let's not forget that the 107% rule is back (though see below). Yet, they beat Virgin sometimes (who claim to have a CFD designed car for the second year).

Originally Posted by pman10

I may disagree with E90 from time to time, but dismissing his opinion on the basis of 'understanding' of the sport is a low blow. Many of us have been following the sport for years, if not decades.

HRT's pace is simply unacceptable. They are lapping with times on par with GP2 cars - they literally are not even in the same class as the other Formula 1 cars. To be this far off the pace after a season and a half, and to struggle to even make the 107% rule, is a disgrace. Having a team that much slower is also a hazard to the other drivers; as a marshal, you should recognize this. There is no excuse for any of this - they have had just as much preparation time and lead time as Lotus and Virgin since the start of the '10 season.

IMO, if they cannot consistently qualify w/in the 107% rule for the rest of the championship (barring any mechanical issues), they should be dropped next season in favor of another new team.

agreed. I just wish the FIA had enforced the rule properly (107% of qualifying time and no forgiveness). They had pressures I believe from Bernie to not be too harsh on them. let's not forget HRT have paid their entry fee. I'm not saying this is all it takes, but let's face it, money talks.

[F1Flagger]

Originally Posted by raisemyrent

it happens to the best, Red Bull fit the wrong tyres onto Vettel in Monaco, so he had to stay out to have a chance to win the race. It's red bull, so he did. but the mistake remains.

they're focussing on next year mainly because they barely made the grid after they got rid of shit-chassis dallara and had to reverse engineer the product that they left them. Let's not forget that the 107% rule is back (though see below). Yet, they beat Virgin sometimes (who claim to have a CFD designed car for the second year).



agreed. I just wish the FIA had enforced the rule properly (107% of qualifying time and no forgiveness). They had pressures I believe from Bernie to not be too harsh on them. let's not forget HRT have paid their entry fee. I'm not saying this is all it takes, but let's face it, money talks.

All the above IS the point!
Mistakes are made by EVERY Team!
Any of HRT's problems could be solved by an input of cash. But sponsor money is next to non-existent.
And yes the bottom three Teams are off the pace by a (at times) large margin! Any of these Teams (including the never got off the ground USGP) could have had the already built Toyota chassis and engine package.
(HRT was working on it until Cosworth enforced the standing contract they had with them)!
Virgin is (or has been) convinced that computer design without the use of a wind tunnel would work. And no one would have know for sure until it was tried.
It is all part of the sport!
And EACH of those Teams have the right to be on the Grid!

Also think about how hard it is to drive your own race, while watching the mirrors to stay out of the way of faster cars. All the while planning your race around THAT strategy!!

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by F1Flagger

Also think about how hard it is to drive your own race, while watching the mirrors to stay out of the way of faster cars. All the while planning your race around THAT strategy!!

This is why they have blue flags, telemetry, and radios.

[arggg45]

Originally Posted by F1Flagger

Any of HRT's problems could be solved by an input of cash.

But sponsor money is next to non-existent.

It is all part of the sport!
And EACH of those Teams have the right to be on the Grid!

Also think about how hard it is to drive your own race, while watching the mirrors to stay out of the way of faster cars. All the while planning your race around THAT strategy!!

1) Anyone can make just about any problem go away with a large enough check...kid's failing college? Write the university a check for a million or two or ten and see his problems go away. Auto Company is going under? Let the government give you a few billion dollars and see their problems go away.

2) That argument isn't really valid because at this point in the season HRT will find it damn near impossible to find a sponsor willing to have their name on a car that is consistently in it's own way, much less everyone elses way.I will be surprised if they are on the track 2 seasons from now unless they really find some speed, ceteris paribus. I think they are an embarrassment to the sport and themselves regardless of their effort; they are underfunded, understaffed, and non-competitive in their current state.

3) Each team has a right to be on the grid up until the point where they become a rolling chicane and are dangerously off the pace. At the speed at which F1 cars travel, being off the pace by 7% is huge. Thats roughly 5 seconds on a 60 second course, MORE on a longer course. In races and qualifying sessions where it comes down to a few thousands of a second, being off the pace by several seconds is unacceptable

4) As far as I can tell this year, their strategy has been to try to stay out of the way, which I will grant you, they have done a decent job of. That said, they obviously are way off the pace and aren't racing in the same sense that the other teams are. I give them credit for having a go of it, but they have proven that they aren't competitive and won't be competitive.

As far as staying out of the way of faster cars, it's something that every racing driver has had to experience at some point in their careers, I'm sure it's not entirely unfamiliar to any of them. I would even argue that they don't look in their mirrors enough. Look what happened in Canada with Karthekeyen? not giving way to a faster car when he knew he would be there and was quite faster, then moving across the track to block his pass, when Karthekeyen? was lapped.

[E90SLAM]

If money can solve everything, then BMW, Toyota, and Honda wouldn't leave the scene.

Pour enough money doesn't bring you success.

I just wish FIA enforce the 107% rule.
The only exception is the car showing promising pace (or showing they are capable to qualify within 107% during the three free practice sessions) suddenly had a mechanical failure during Q1 and never post a time. Then the FIA can look at the practice lap times and see if the car ever made into the 107%. Then grant the driver the P24 to start on Sunday.

Otherwise, if the driver participated in Q1 and never post a lap time well within 107%, the driver should not participate on Sunday. Don't forget, the P1 time in Q1 is not even the "fastest" during saturday qualifying sessions. If bottom team have trouble keep up with that, it just means they are even more off-pace in ultimate fastest lap time.

[F1Flagger]

Originally Posted by arggg45

1) Anyone can make just about any problem go away with a large enough check...kid's failing college? Write the university a check for a million or two or ten and see his problems go away. Auto Company is going under? Let the government give you a few billion dollars and see their problems go away.

2) That argument isn't really valid because at this point in the season HRT will find it damn near impossible to find a sponsor willing to have their name on a car that is consistently in it's own way, much less everyone elses way.I will be surprised if they are on the track 2 seasons from now unless they really find some speed, ceteris paribus. I think they are an embarrassment to the sport and themselves regardless of their effort; they are underfunded, understaffed, and non-competitive in their current state.

3) Each team has a right to be on the grid up until the point where they become a rolling chicane and are dangerously off the pace. At the speed at which F1 cars travel, being off the pace by 7% is huge. Thats roughly 5 seconds on a 60 second course, MORE on a longer course. In races and qualifying sessions where it comes down to a few thousands of a second, being off the pace by several seconds is unacceptable

4) As far as I can tell this year, their strategy has been to try to stay out of the way, which I will grant you, they have done a decent job of. That said, they obviously are way off the pace and aren't racing in the same sense that the other teams are. I give them credit for having a go of it, but they have proven that they aren't competitive and won't be competitive.

As far as staying out of the way of faster cars, it's something that every racing driver has had to experience at some point in their careers, I'm sure it's not entirely unfamiliar to any of them. I would even argue that they don't look in their mirrors enough. Look what happened in Canada with Karthekeyen? not giving way to a faster car when he knew he would be there and was quite faster, then moving across the track to block his pass, when Karthekeyen? was lapped.

All good points.
I still feel they have the right to be there. along with the other new Teams.
Will they be on the grid in 2-3yrs. Probably under another name. That is usually how it works.

But it won't improve until the global economy improves.
Correct money will not solve it all. But it provides the budget to hire talent, and continue to improve the product. If you are always trying to make it till the next check.... you can never develop a better product.

[arggg45]

Originally Posted by F1Flagger

All good points.
I still feel they have the right to be there. along with the other new Teams.
Will they be on the grid in 2-3yrs. Probably under another name. That is usually how it works.

But it won't improve until the global economy improves.
Correct money will not solve it all. But it provides the budget to hire talent, and continue to improve the product. If you are always trying to make it till the next check.... you can never develop a better product.

Since you were on track in Montreal, where were you stationed?

[johanness]

Originally Posted by pman10

IMO, if they cannot consistently qualify w/in the 107% rule for the rest of the championship (barring any mechanical issues), they should be dropped next season in favor of another new team.

Another new team with the exact same set of issues being discussed here. They'll mature like fine wine just like every other team has done. It's not going to happen overnight

[F1Flagger]

Originally Posted by arggg45

Since you were on track in Montreal, where were you stationed?

I worked at corner 9, part of the right - left complex leading to the back straight before the hairpin.

Specifically in the gravel trap at 9 as an 'Intervention Marshal"

[arggg45]

Ok. From your perspective, were the conditions as bad as they looked? There seemed to be quite a few opportunities to start the race earlier, but didn't.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by johanness

Another new team with the exact same set of issues being discussed here. They'll mature like fine wine just like every other team has done. It's not going to happen overnight

Not every wine matures equally. If they did, and F1 teams followed suit then we would have the same teams now as when F1 started.