[crazkilljoy]

Hey all

No, I do not want a 335 or a n54 swap.

Now then. I have a 2010 328xi. Love it to death. Want more power from it without changing the base design of the motor. Here is my evil plan.

N52 engines are cheap and easy to find where I live. I am going to buy a spare motor and rip it apart in the garage. Lighten, knife edge, polish, and balance the crank(with con rods and pistons of course) to within 1/10 of a gram. Port the stock cylinder head on intake and exhaust size plus port match the intake manifold. (Possibly stage 3). Headers. Exhaust valves pre-muffler activated on a toggle. Lighten the connecting rods and pistons.

Possibly have my local transmission shop adjust the stall of the converter a bit higher.
Cams are staying stock. I don't want to change the curve as drastically to preserve daily driveability. No turbo or supercharger to clog up the engine bay and have tuning nightmares for the forseeable future.

Thoughts? Additions to possible modifications?

NO I DO NOT WANT A 335 OR N54.

[lookalikehuuh]

Its your car, time and money, but IMHO that is a waste of time and money when an N55 or N55 can do all that and more with no drive-ability or tuning issues. And for the record the turbo's are almost invisible unless you go looking for them specifically so that "clog up the engine bay" argument holds no water.

This is coming from someone who owns both an 06 330i (255hp factory rated) and a 335i... it is a night and day difference no matter what you do to your N52 it will never give you what an N54/N55 can give you. Even my 4 year old son always wants to take the 335i everywhere we go.

[213e90n51]

Someon had a on series on here with almost 280whp with a n52. It was expensive but pretty sweet. I would spend the money on a laptorr exhaust system and tune.

[F13.KENN]

Owned a 128i before my 335i and i was all over 1addicts a lot and learning about the car. Not saying im the Albert Einstein of the n52 and not gonna say "go buy a n54 car" but i really dont think its worth it for the money youd be spending. N52 seems to be a great engine for a daily that you want to make sound cool. Or use it as a low power track car. But when it comes to power it isnt worth it at all other than 3 stage & the 130i tune for it. Obviously you wanna stay N/A. Maybe get an e46 m3? Or if you dont like how that chassis is setup and want updated suspension design then just throw an s54 from a wrecked m3 into your e9x. Just some ideas. In the end, its your car and money. Do what you wanna do man

[crazkilljoy]

Look i appreciate you all trying to be "wise and helpful"
The first and last parts of my post both stated that a n54 swap
or a 335 are out of the question. I have had many turbocharged
vehicles. I know the advantages and disadvantages. I want a
naturally aspirated engine that makes 280 minimum to the
wheels. Simple.
Lets pretend for the sake of my thread and sanity that the n54 does not
exist.

Everyone has seen the bolt on list. 3SIM, catless manifolds,
new intake, and a tune. That nets 230-240 max.
I intend to obtain the extra 40 horsepower regardless of weather
or not I have to tear the engine apart and spend the $$ for custom
machine work. I am asking what else can be done with stock
cams in a naturally aspitared config to bring out the rest.

[colorado.e9x]

The N52 hasn't really been touched much further than FBO if at all. Good luck.

[JonOhh]

I look forward to seeing this, and I completely understand how you feel about wanting to stay NA, I think the N52 is a fantastic engine with loads of character, and it'd be a shame to give that up. In the days of turbos everywhere, having a great revving NA Inline 6 is fantastic.


Good luck, and keep us posted. I really believe there is more NA power on the table with the N52 that hasn't been looked much into yet. I wonder if bumping the compression ratio up is a possibility.

[neilvan]

As someone who actually builds engines as a secondary job; 280whp will not come cheap or easy or simple

For all purposes just assume a 0.8 drivetrain loss(will be more because you're auto and awd); To get 280whp you will need somewhere around 350hp to the crank(you expect to add 130hp or 52% more without forced induction or any real way to get more air in/out)

Bmw engines these days(N/A) are blueprinted very well so the lightening/porting will not net you much(especially for the cost of it). You may be able to get a quicker reving or sustain a higher redline but more than 5 or so whp is unlikely for the few grand you will spend

Really to get any decent gains out of the engine(and near your goal) you will need to learn turning and spend lots of time on the dyno; even possibly go with an aftermarket tuning. Are you okay with an aftermarket ECU.

For N/A the only way to get real gains is displacement(overboring at this point), compression(new pistons/decking head) or cams. I mean ya you can throw giant valves in the head but without a proper cam are you really going to get any benefit? Now the MILVS are a great and easy bolt on for the power they can provide.

Building a real N/A motor with that much more hp than stock you will lose low end and driveability plus have tuning issues(similar or more than a factory turbo motor will).

IMO best bet is full bolt ones (3-stage/header/MILV/Intake/secondary delete/dyno tuning and possibly even a small shot of nitrous).

In this case Horsepower, driveability, reliability. Pick 2

[marvinstockman]

Much cheaper to stay in a lower gear if you have a manual, or if you have an automatic, shift it manually.

[213e90n51]

I love my n51 230 hp motor. Revs to 7K and got freshly rebuilt, i dont see the point of any power modification for this engine and espicially when my instructor gets better lap times in my own car than me.

[tlow98]

Please just do dyno runs before and after your crank/head/internal mods.

Would love to see the difference.

Everyone loves to mention how you won’t get anything, and logically you may not, but no one has any real empirical evidence.

Hopefully, you will! Good luck and keep us posted

[Bimmer_Engineer]

Originally Posted by neilvan

As someone who actually builds engines as a secondary job; 280whp will not come cheap or easy or simple

For all purposes just assume a 0.8 drivetrain loss(will be more because you're auto and awd); To get 280whp you will need somewhere around 350hp to the crank(you expect to add 130hp or 52% more without forced induction or any real way to get more air in/out)

Bmw engines these days(N/A) are blueprinted very well so the lightening/porting will not net you much(especially for the cost of it). You may be able to get a quicker reving or sustain a higher redline but more than 5 or so whp is unlikely for the few grand you will spend

Really to get any decent gains out of the engine(and near your goal) you will need to learn turning and spend lots of time on the dyno; even possibly go with an aftermarket tuning. Are you okay with an aftermarket ECU.

For N/A the only way to get real gains is displacement(overboring at this point), compression(new pistons/decking head) or cams. I mean ya you can throw giant valves in the head but without a proper cam are you really going to get any benefit? Now the MILVS are a great and easy bolt on for the power they can provide.

Building a real N/A motor with that much more hp than stock you will lose low end and driveability plus have tuning issues(similar or more than a factory turbo motor will).

IMO best bet is full bolt ones (3-stage/header/MILV/Intake/secondary delete/dyno tuning and possibly even a small shot of nitrous).

In this case Horsepower, driveability, reliability. Pick 2

I like the sound of nitrous...

[crazkilljoy]

Originally Posted by neilvan

As someone who actually builds engines as a secondary job; 280whp will not come cheap or easy or simple

For all purposes just assume a 0.8 drivetrain loss(will be more because you're auto and awd); To get 280whp you will need somewhere around 350hp to the crank(you expect to add 130hp or 52% more without forced induction or any real way to get more air in/out)

Bmw engines these days(N/A) are blueprinted very well so the lightening/porting will not net you much(especially for the cost of it). You may be able to get a quicker reving or sustain a higher redline but more than 5 or so whp is unlikely for the few grand you will spend

Really to get any decent gains out of the engine(and near your goal) you will need to learn turning and spend lots of time on the dyno; even possibly go with an aftermarket tuning. Are you okay with an aftermarket ECU.

For N/A the only way to get real gains is displacement(overboring at this point), compression(new pistons/decking head) or cams. I mean ya you can throw giant valves in the head but without a proper cam are you really going to get any benefit? Now the MILVS are a great and easy bolt on for the power they can provide.

Building a real N/A motor with that much more hp than stock you will lose low end and driveability plus have tuning issues(similar or more than a factory turbo motor will).

IMO best bet is full bolt ones (3-stage/header/MILV/Intake/secondary delete/dyno tuning and possibly even a small shot of nitrous).

In this case Horsepower, driveability, reliability. Pick 2

I fully intend on full bolt on. Was reading last night on the MILV. 39 pages of glorious innovation. Adding it to the list. Along with the extra air it will provide, i presume fuel AND displacement can be added. A small over-bore might be usefull to provide the displacement while maintaining correct injector spray pattern to the cylinder and fuel dispersion. As for the higher compression ratio, it had crossed my mind. I am concerned about combining a solution to raise compression and the added 1mm of valve lift. Will it kiss a piston? Anyone know how much room I have to play with? Also, i assume that MILV tunes account for the added lift AND duration. A question for BPC, I suppose.

Can the exhaust valves keep up with the added air? Or do I need to source larger aftermarket valves and machine the head to match?

My secondary cats, resonator, and mufflers will remain intact for sound and emissions purposes Pre-muffler will be exhaust valves to open air wired to a toggle. I want a stock sounding car until i flip the switch. No use droning around the neighborhood waking neighbors up at 6 A.M.

I see your point on the porting. I suppose i give BMW engineers less credit than they deserve. I do, however, believe that the rotating assembly could use lightening and balancing.

Fuel. How long until I run out of injector? Fuel pump? Restriction caused by OEM fuel lines and filters? Is there an injector that provides a better spray pattern while being plug & play?

I know I am asking quite a bit of information, but I fully intend on going through with this venture. I have located a 2007 n52 from an auto AWD. $500 and 15 minutes away. Seems a bit fitting that my stimulus check just hit my bank account...

[Bimmer_Engineer]

Why not just do an LS swap?

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by crazkilljoy

I fully intend on full bolt on. Was reading last night on the MILV. 39 pages of glorious innovation. Adding it to the list. Along with the extra air it will provide, i presume fuel AND displacement can be added. A small over-bore might be usefull to provide the displacement while maintaining correct injector spray pattern to the cylinder and fuel dispersion. As for the higher compression ratio, it had crossed my mind. I am concerned about combining a solution to raise compression and the added 1mm of valve lift. Will it kiss a piston? Anyone know how much room I have to play with? Also, i assume that MILV tunes account for the added lift AND duration. A question for BPC, I suppose.

Can the exhaust valves keep up with the added air? Or do I need to source larger aftermarket valves and machine the head to match?

My secondary cats, resonator, and mufflers will remain intact for sound and emissions purposes Pre-muffler will be exhaust valves to open air wired to a toggle. I want a stock sounding car until i flip the switch. No use droning around the neighborhood waking neighbors up at 6 A.M.

I see your point on the porting. I suppose i give BMW engineers less credit than they deserve. I do, however, believe that the rotating assembly could use lightening and balancing.

Fuel. How long until I run out of injector? Fuel pump? Restriction caused by OEM fuel lines and filters? Is there an injector that provides a better spray pattern while being plug & play?

I know I am asking quite a bit of information, but I fully intend on going through with this venture. I have located a 2007 n52 from an auto AWD. $500 and 15 minutes away. Seems a bit fitting that my stimulus check just hit my bank account...

As mentioned, buy the 09+ build date motors (exact build date is something like 11/08? anyway, check the sticky slide on the lifter tick). Avoid all the pains of the sticky lifters. It would be a shame to go through all of this and have that to deal with.

They're all $6-900 motors.

[neilvan]

.

Originally Posted by crazkilljoy

. A small over-bore might be usefull Go as big as you can go on bore size. Depending how large you can go depends on the cylinder wall thickness, piston sizes available and headgasket options. As for the higher compression ratio, it had crossed my mind. I am concerned about combining a solution to raise compression and the added 1mm of valve lift. Will it kiss a piston? Anyone know how much room I have to play with? Also, MILVS will come into play. This being uncharged territory you will have to assemble, measure and repeat. Possibly machine out reliefs in the pistons if the clearances are too tight. This is the fun of building an N/A motor

Can the exhaust valves keep up with the added air? Or do I need to source larger aftermarket valves and machine the head to match? Are bigger valves better? Will they make more power on a stock motor without forced induction or giant cams? I'm willing to be no but the only way is to bench test the CFM before and after

My secondary cats, resonator, and mufflers will remain intact for sound and emissions purposes Pre-muffler will be exhaust valves to open air wired to a toggle. I want a stock sounding car until i flip the switch. Understand the noise aspect but considering the secondary cat delete barely changes volume; I'm willing to be it'll make just as much power gain as porting+bigger valves on these heads. Id look into it. Shit even my winter beater has a secondary delete and flapper muffler and its silent. Engines are air pumps so you have to get air out of it just as fast as you are shoving it in. Stock exhausts are pretty good on these but if you don't remove the restrictions how can you expect to actually make the extra power

I see your point on the porting. I suppose i give BMW engineers less credit than they deserve. I do, however, believe that the rotating assembly could use lightening and balancing.

Fuel. How long until I run out of injector? Fuel pump? Restriction caused by OEM fuel lines and filters? Is there an injector that provides a better spray pattern while being plug & play? You wont need to touch fuel injectors/lines or pump with bolt ons. People have shoved forced induction on the N52 and just done injectors which you wont, if you dont add boost. Just need to tune the fuel table for the more air volume

I know I am asking quite a bit of information, but I fully intend on going through with this venture. You can make the engine for better, more hp and more fun for sure. Hitting 280whp will just not happen. I have no doubt with all of that work you should be able to his 300-320 crank but depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go with cost and loss of drivability

[BearsFan52]

The N52 is actually 255hp stock but the babied version in the 328i can be unlocked to 255 with the manifold upgrade and a higher flow exhaust. That’s where I’m starting with my 09 stock 328. FBO with a decent tune to active the manifold will get you around 260/270 crank. Not a crazy amount but you can feel the difference.

If you wanna get REALLY Spicy you can start playing with XHP if you have an auto or xDelete if you have xDrive for the RWD experience and switch it whenever you feel necessary.

[freakystyly]

The Z4 (3.0si?) and if I'm right, the X5 have higher output than stock 330i from the same engine. It may be from a different exhaust manifold setup and/or tune. I'm sure it's been posted somewhere.

[b1aze]

Step 1: Get a RWD car
Step 2: Get it in 6MT
Step 3: Get it in the E82 platform (1series)
Step 4: change the rear diff to the 3.73 ratio

If you aren’t satisfied with that, there’s not much else worth doing as the $$$/HP gets exponentially higher if you’re dead set on N/A power

But really, your far feels slow cuz it’s an automatic AWD pig.

[lookalikehuuh]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

Why not just do an LS swap?

Yeah I agree with you, since OP is quite stuck on the idea that he wants 280whp somehow out of an engine that has rarely if ever been pushed to that point, not to mention reliability, LS is probably the best option as well no sense in wasting so much time and money on an N52 block.

By my really rough calculations in order to get 280WHP OP will need to make nearly 340-350HP at crank, not impossible but not really very practical if at all possible.

That being said if the time and money is there then I'm all eyes to see how this turns out.

[crazkilljoy]

Yall have some serious doubt issues.

I am literally publicly stating that I am willing to pioneer the N52 platform power adders past bolt ons while posting dyno runs at beginning and end. NOBODY has done a full exploration of the n52's potential like this.

I don't want an LS. I want a BMW N52 NA. I want a motor that I can swap into my car in 3 hours LITERALLY plug and play. If I wanted an LS to play with, I could mod my GMC.

The spare motor is purchased and waiting at the seller's house for pick up. Same model as my motor.

This is happening. No use in trying to send me a different direction. I own the experimental engine.

I live in a northern state where snow and rain are constant issues on a daily basis. I bought an awd for a reason. Rwd is not an option. The goal remains the same with the extra drivetrain weight. 280 to the wheels. No nitros. I want to be able to use all 280 at any time, not just on the track. I like the fuel mileage that comes with my current gearing. No 3.73 any time soon. After all, i intend on swapping engines back and forth whenever desired. If the modded engine fails, i will go back to the stocker and rebuild the high HP motor.

Now then. Does anyone know the valve/piston clearence @ 100% lift stock? Will be necessary for safely raising compression ratios. Does anyone know how far the cylinder walls can be bored out? New larger pistons that might require valve reliefs, etc.

I need experienced knowledge of sizes and clearences to start ordering parts.

The current build plan is as follows
Catless headers
Milv
3SIM
High compression pistons(with larger bore?)
Lighten crankshaft
BPC milv tune
Cold air intake w/ box to seperate engine compartment heat soak
Smooth bore intake piping
Exhaust valves pre muffler
Upgraded water pump

Photos and possibly videos to follow soon

[b1aze]

Originally Posted by crazkilljoy

Yall have some serious doubt issues.

I am literally publicly stating that I am willing to pioneer the N52 platform power adders past bolt ons while posting dyno runs at beginning and end. NOBODY has done a full exploration of the n52's potential like this.

I don't want an LS. I want a BMW N52 NA. I want a motor that I can swap into my car in 3 hours LITERALLY plug and play. If I wanted an LS to play with, I could mod my GMC.

The spare motor is purchased and waiting at the seller's house for pick up. Same model as my motor.

This is happening. No use in trying to send me a different direction. I own the experimental engine.

I live in a northern state where snow and rain are constant issues on a daily basis. I bought an awd for a reason. Rwd is not an option. The goal remains the same with the extra drivetrain weight. 280 to the wheels. No nitros. I want to be able to use all 280 at any time, not just on the track. I like the fuel mileage that comes with my current gearing. No 3.73 any time soon. After all, i intend on swapping engines back and forth whenever desired. If the modded engine fails, i will go back to the stocker and rebuild the high HP motor.

Now then. Does anyone know the valve/piston clearence @ 100% lift stock? Will be necessary for safely raising compression ratios. Does anyone know how far the cylinder walls can be bored out? New larger pistons that might require valve reliefs, etc.

I need experienced knowledge of sizes and clearences to start ordering parts.

The current build plan is as follows
Catless headers
Milv
3SIM
High compression pistons(with larger bore?)
Lighten crankshaft
BPC milv tune
Cold air intake w/ box to seperate engine compartment heat soak
Smooth bore intake piping
Exhaust valves pre muffler
Upgraded water pump

Photos and possibly videos to follow soon

Were the ones with the doubt issues...? You don’t think ANYONE EVER has tried any of this? If that’s the case, no one is going to have any of the info you need, so you might as well actually pioneer this man. And I guarantee if someone DOES have this info, they likely aren’t going to regurgitate it on a forum like this. You’d need to be working directly with an engine builder and that sure as shit ain’t free. Break out your calipers and start measuring there Chris Columbus!