[witeagle]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

It would be helpful if someone would explain why an MT gives more control.

CA

two things I can think of -

1) you can jump multiple gears 3rd to 5th or downshift from 6th to 4th etc.
2) put into 2nd gear and feather the clutch to get unstuck on snow/ice.

[T Rex84]

Originally Posted by jaco

Based on these poll results finding a manual 335 should have been a lot easier.

Seriously. It took me almost a year to find a manual 335 in my area.

[chromisdesigns]

Does the 335 6MT still allow the "suicide shift" like the older ones did? A number of people I knew with E36 M3's blew up their motors doing that little oops...

[Peertwelve]

Originally Posted by T Rex84

Seriously. It took me almost a year to find a manual 335 in my area.

Yup me too. So either this poll is biased or nobody gets rid of their manual transmission cars

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

It would be helpful if someone would explain why they feel s more control since there seem to be some here with limited MT experience.

I personally do not feel that an MT gives more control than a DCT or even some modern "traditional" ATs.
"Harder to learn", "Requires more skill" and "More engaging" and "more fun" and "I like it better" do not necessarily equate to "more control".

CA

I know you are an authority. When I hit my gas pedal hard there is a hesitation while the trans shifts down to what it thinks is an appropriate gear. When I'm in a manual trans I usually have the reves up higher and am better prepared for more instant accel. Having said that it just takes more use of the paddles to be in the same situation. I think MT gives far more control than steptronic (lethargic shifts and can get confused) but probably less than a good dct or pdk. Im trying to get rid of this step and get a manual because its got a mind of its own.

[Edward]

For modern cars:

DCT > MT > SMG > AUTO

The DCT took away the fuel efficiency advantage that MT had over traditional autos with a tq converter. It outperforms in every measurable way, however it isn't as involved, and some prefer to work more for the drive. Can't knock that. I'm more for techy stuff so DCT wins for me. I can drive a manual just fine but I wouldn't be buying manual if a dual clutch were available. The only car I could see myself actually getting in 6MT is the GT3/RS. Or of course any 993.

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by tibra1

DCT is analogous to AT..both are a shortcut to thinking

Third pedal puts you as one w the car..may not be faster..but imo def more challenging and fun

, plus it looks cooler.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by witeagle

Two things I can think of

1) you can jump multiple gears 3rd to 5th or downshift from 6th to 4th etc.
2) put into 2nd gear and feather the clutch to get unstuck on snow/ice.

`

1. I never jump multiple gears with an MT. I can't do it on the track cars (sequential gearbox) and I never do it with a conventional H pattern MT. If I am going from 5th to 3rd I always go through 4th. With paddles (you can go from 5th to 3rd very quickly by hitting the paddles twice. If the transmission does go through 4th on the way to 3rd it does it very quickly and smoothly.

2. I don't take the car out when there is snow and ice but that is a valid point and a proven snow and ice driving technique. It would not, however, be a factor that would influence my transmission choice. Even in my years of driving with MTs in New England and in Upstate New York winteres there were probably less than 3 occaissions where I had to feather the clutch to get unstuck.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Edward

For modern cars:

DCT > MT > SMG > AUTO

The DCT took away the fuel efficiency advantage that MT had over traditional autos with a tq converter. It outperforms in every measurable way, however it isn't as involved, and some prefer to work more for the drive. Can't knock that. I'm more for techy stuff so DCT wins for me. I can drive a manual just fine but I wouldn't be buying manual if a dual clutch were available. The only car I could see myself actually getting in 6MT is the GT3/RS. Or of course any 993.

As has been pointed out here many times the torque converter is locked up by a clutch mechnaism as soon as the car get moving, does not participate in the gear shifting process and has negligable effect on fuel economy.

When I was at the BMW M-Power tour last year someone asked one of the BMW people how the DCT compared to the SMG. Their answer was "The SMG was crap"

I agree.

CA

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

It would be helpful if someone would explain why they feel an MT gives them more control since there seem to be some here with limited MT experience.
CA

Some have stated than an MT in snow conditions for example allows better control b/c of the abilty to feather the clutch and "ease" power to the wheels..Being an MT driver my entire adult life I can definitly second this.

The engagement of the clutch to limit or put down power by definition provides better control of torque/power to wheels..ofcourse at the expense of the clutch itself..ATs in all their forms do not have that advantage

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Leaker

I know you are an authority. When I hit my gas pedal hard there is a hesitation while the trans shifts down to what it thinks is an appropriate gear. When I'm in a manual trans I usually have the reves up higher and am better prepared for more instant accel. Having said that it just takes more use of the paddles to be in the same situation. I think MT gives far more control than steptronic (lethargic shifts and can get confused) but probably less than a good dct or pdk. Im trying to get rid of this step and get a manual because its got a mind of its own.

Well certainly an MT will give more control over a Step a DCT or an SMG when those transmission are in fully automatic mode.

CA

[Edward]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

As has been pointed out here many times the torque converter is locked up by a clutch mechnaism as soon as the car get moving, does not participate in the gear shifting process and has negligable effect on fuel economy.

When I was at the BMW M-Power tour last year someone asked one of the BMW people how the DCT compared to the SMG. Their answer was "The SMG was crap"

I agree.

CA

yea I guess gone are the days where the AT got worse mileage. I think even as recent as the E46 lineup, the manual got better listed mileage.


yes. SMG is garbage by today's standards. In 1997, a similar sequential gearbox like one found in the 355 F1 was pretty sick. Today? not so much. The SMG in the E46 M3 feels like the software is programmed to specifically mimic a very poorly skilled driver's shifts - even more so in auto mode.

[captainaudio]

An MT advantage that I made use of on many occaisions is the ability to jump start a car with a dead battery by getting it rolling and "popping" the clutch.

Can this be done on a current MT BMW?

CA

[mundo74]

Manual. Only had manuals in the past also but im at the end of that run. My next car will be a DCT. Nothing against manuals but the automatics and automated transmissions have come a looooong way in the past 10 yrs

[chromisdesigns]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

An MT advantage that I made use of on many occaisions is the ability to jump start a car with a dead battery by getting it rolling and "popping" the clutch.

Can this be done on a current MT BMW?

CA

not since the advent of computerization! None of the electronics, including motor electronics, would be working.

I used to do that with my VW bugs on occasion. And I got home one night on my bike after a busted clutch cable, by clutchless shifting, timing lights, and doing one running bump start downhill in high gear when I got hung up. That was hairy!

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by chromisdesigns

not since the advent of computerization! None of the electronics, including motor electronics, would be working.

I used to do that with my VW bugs on occasion. And I got home one night on my bike after a busted clutch cable, by clutchless shifting, timing lights, and doing one running bump start downhill in high gear when I got hung up. That was hairy!

I jump started my 92 Lexus SC300 that way when the battery died.

CA

[Uber V8]

I'm just curious for all the "MT for life" people: If offered the choice between a dual clutch Lambo Aventador or conventional MT Porsche GT3 RS 4.0, what would you take and why?

Try to see past price and power, just consider the principle of the argument.

What car would make you switch to dual clutch only tech?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

I'm just curious for all the "MT for life" people: If offered the choice between a dual clutch Lambo Aventador or conventional MT Porsche GT3 RS 4.0, what would you take and why?

Try to see past price and power, just consider the principle of the argument.

What car would make you switch to dual clutch only tech?

I am by no means an "MT for Life" person but I would take the Porsche over the Lambo.

At this point the Mclaren MP4-12C (which comes with a DCT) would be my choice of supercars. I know that Lamborghini has made some very high performance cars but they have never appealed to me and probably never will. I consider them the ultimate all image no content poseurmobile. As far as I am concerned Senor Lamborghini should have stayed with tractors.


Q. What is the worlds' shortest book,

A, Famous Lamborghini race drivers.

CA

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Q. What is the worlds' shortest book,

A, Famous Lamborghini race drivers.

CA

ouch.

[z335ixp09]

Modern automatics, be it DCT/SMG/Steptronic, have technically outperformed manuals in a lot of ways. The only thing autos can't provide is ultimate driver enjoyment specially with the ultimate driving machine. With manuals, the driver is always engaged with the car. For me, driving is still a chore I enjoy a lot and chose to maintain it that way.

I was driving from New Jersey to JFK Airport with lots of stop and go traffic. To my surprise, it wasn't my left knee/leg that got numb from being "overused", it was my right knee/leg. I guess both will get numb from heavy traffic if I had an auto. ;-)

[J02 335i]

Originally Posted by z335ixp09

Modern automatics, be it DCT/SMG/Steptronic, have technically outperformed manuals in a lot of ways. The only thing autos can't provide is ultimate driver enjoyment specially with the ultimate driving machine. With manuals, the driver is always engaged with the car. For me, driving is still a chore I enjoy a lot and chose to maintain it that way.

I was driving from New Jersey to JFK Airport with lots of stop and go traffic. To my surprise, it wasn't my left knee/leg that got numb from being "overused", it was my right knee/leg. I guess both will get numb from heavy traffic if I had an auto. ;-)

I'm really not trying to keep this thread going but, why would both knees go numb with an auto? Do you brake with your left foot/leg?

[MZHammer]

Originally Posted by tibra1

+1

Every car I have owned has been a manual

'84 Honda CRX
'86 Saab 9000
'88 Saab 9000
'90 VW Corrado G-60
'91 Nissan Altima
'93 Eagle Talon
'07 335i

Same here:

'80 VW Rabbit
'96 Ford Contour V6
'02 Civic Si
'06 TSX
'06 M Roadster
'08 328i