[Traceaz]

If a BMW sales rep agrees to sell you a car at X,XXX over invoice, what does that include or what should it typically include? My assumption is all fee's, other than tax, tag, license, gas guzzler tax if applicable, and destination charge, and thats it, right?

I'm assuming if a dealer sells they are willing to sell to you for 1000 or 2000 or 3000 over invoice etc, it includes things such as:

MACO/DAG (advertising fee's?
Doc fee's/Doc Prep
Dealer Car Prep

Anyone know for sure? I'm worried that an agreement for a certain price over invoice could turn into a situation where its several hundred dollars more in fees and want to make sure that "XXXX" over invoice on a deal is meant to include all fees other than the TTL, gas guzzler, and destination charge.

[geeslice]

it will not include MACO fees.. at least it didnt in my case.

[stressdoc]

That is something you need to spell out very carefully with all the details in your written agreement/contract with your SA. We can't tell you diddlesquat.

[mmeads]

What he said.

It's up to you and how much you know to say it includes (if that make sense). For me $500 included, Doc Fees, Training Fees, PID, (no MACO for my dealership), and a set of floormats. The only thing it didn't cover was the vehicle registration.

[moogoo541]

question, how much are the MACO fees in california, im getting 1000 over invoice from greg poland in glendale and he said maco is part of the dealer invoice, anyone know how much maco is?

[mmeads]

Originally Posted by moogoo541

question, how much are the MACO fees in california, im getting 1000 over invoice from greg poland in glendale and he said maco is part of the dealer invoice, anyone know how much maco is?

Just ask to see the invoice. It'll be stated on there. We can't tell you because it varies by market. But from what I've seen its usually in the $200-$400 range.

[ALPINE6SPD]

MACO is included on an over invoice when I quote. I think its a dealership to dealership policy.

[Traceaz]

as as FYI, when I put a deposit down for my 335i, I had them write down on the purchase order that the amount over invoice they were charging me INCLUDED the MACO charge.

[moogoo541]

uh i ordered my 325 today at 800 over invoice, buuuut w/ additional maco fee of 380+ 180 for dealer service training fee, and free floormats? did i get ripped off? im in southern california and they said that all dealers charge these fees.

[gos]

Originally Posted by moogoo541

uh i ordered my 325 today at 800 over invoice, buuuut w/ additional maco fee of 380+ 180 for dealer service training fee, and free floormats? did i get ripped off? im in southern california and they said that all dealers charge these fees.

My quote had a $300 MACO "inside" the invoice price, along with the $695 destination and a $189.50 dealer prep fee. Their first offer added amount to that (call it $x) and they said they were offering me $x over invoice.

They do this because the $x sounded really good, but obviously there's $500 in fees "built into" that price, plus all sorts of other dealer profit. I then said "I'll pay you $y for the car, all fees included, and I want a BMW puppy dog stuffed animal as well."

They accepted my $y.

We didn't split hairs over what was inside or outside the invoice price. They were very straight forward listing all their fees or other markups, documenting the invoice pricing for every option, etc. That honesty was important to me. I'm sure that when I sign any final paperwork, there will be a finance guy trying to hit me with all the other markups, undercoat, wheel&tire insurance, etc. but I'm pretty good at resisting salespeople on stuff like that.

Either way, if you're happy with your deal, it was a good one. Cars are emotional purchases, don't let buying them bum you out too much if you find out later someone else paid $200 less than you did for the same car. Could I have done better? Sure. Could I have done worse? Sure.

The best thing people can do I would guess is try to buy cars at the very end of a month. Every dealership is trying to make certain targets, and the salespeople always have monetary incentives to hit those targets.

Either way, they got the exact car I wanted ordered and built within 1 business day, and now I am just at the waiting part.

--gos

[Traceaz]

well, unfortunately I'm going through "fee" hell right now. What I thought was a done deal for XXXX over invoice on my 335i is now going south. I had the CA specifically write down XXXX over dealer invoice, and he said Id have to pay a PDI fee, which he stated was "100 or so".

He wrote down XXXX over dealer invoice plus PDI. Then I said that this XXXX amount over invoice, I want that to include MACO, but Im fine with a 100.00 PDI fee. He said fine and wrote next to it "including MACO.

Now, I get a call up today, as he wants to finalize everything (we wrote this order up 2 months ago when I put down a deposit), and of course, the PDI is now 180.00 (which is definitely a little more than "100 or so", but no big deal), but he is also ADDING MACO, not INCLUDING MACO. We went round and round on the phone. The MACO is 300 bucks. Not a huge amount, but this added to the PDI, makes it 480 bucks more, so almost 500 more. AND, this is AFTER I was told that due to the delay for anyone ordering a 335i with Navigation, I wouldnt likely receive my car now until December at some point. However, he could order me a car without Nav, and I would get it in September or 1st week October at the latest.

Overall, my experience is becoming more and more sour, as I specifically had him write in "INCLUDING MACO", but his take on it is that Maco is PART of the invoice or dealer cost, so he is going to show some some dumb invoice or whatever tomorrow where it has all the invoice numbers, and Im sure Maco as a part now OF invoice, but still something I have to pay. Its really disappointing, because initially my sales experience was pretty good and very straightforward. Now I feel like they agreed to something and are going to nickle and dime me to death to make up for any margin they feel they are missing out on.

I'm debating dumping my order and getting a used 2005 M3 elsewhere, or else look into the 2007 CLK550's, or else maybe the Cayman S, or possibly the S4 (although not likely on the S4). I really like the design and set up for the 335i, and 500 bucks isnt a lot of money, but when you figure Im looking at spending 46k+ with options, and likely 50k after Tax/Tag/License, you'd think they would try to screw you on the tail end AFTER you had them clearly write something in to the deal.

I have no problem paying for destination charge, and no problem paying "100 or so" for PDI although I think this fee is very optional, but when I specifically tell them I want MACO including in my X,XXX deal over invoice, I expect that to be part of that X,XXX price, NOT "oh, its really invoice + XXXX + MACO, since Maco is part of the invoice but outside of that price."

Hopefully we'll get things cleared up tomorrow, but Im also starting to think maybe we wont. Also, I dont see the need for the rush rush lets get my order in, since I was told they wont start production on Nav cars until mid Sept to mid October, and likely arrive dates for anyone with a Nav car will be late late November to mid to late December at some point. So if they dont start production on my car, I have half a mind to just get my deposit back, sit on it for another 3 1/2 months, and if come October I still want it, then just order it then, because either way I wont get the car until December if I want Nav (which I do).

[JT]

TracerHawk - you working with BMW N Scott? Let me know.

[Traceaz]

No JT, I'm working with Chapman on Camelback. I contacted a guy at BMW N. Scottsdale, but then when I compared the two offers from BMW N. Scottsdale and BMW on Camelback, BMW on camelback was significantly lower.

Now, pending on this MACO issue where now they want to add it on TOP of the invoice, as well as 175.00 bucks for PDI they are charging me, now the deal is only nominally better than BMW N. Scottsdale. I had them write on the price sheet when I dropped off my deposit that the XXXX amount of invoice would INCLUDE maco, but now he is saying there was confusion and its "dealer cost", not dealer invoice, and therefore maco is part of invoice, but not INCLUDED in the initial figures, so we have to add it. Pretty much the opposite of what I had him specifically write down on this 4square sheet when I dropped off my deposit.

We'll see though, I'm going down to meet with my CA tomorrow early afternoon to work out details and see if we can save the deal or if its going to be a big headache and Ill start looking at the CLK550's or a Cayman S.

[Pretender]

Dude, I didn't pay any MACO when I bought mine. I only saw $60 advertising fee which was okay because they had to order my credit report and stuffs anyway. MACO is a part of invoice? Bullshit. BMW didn't charge the dealer MACO; how the hell was it a part of invoice? Invoice price = the amount of money that dealers pay BMW less the percent dealer hold back (I heard lately BMW has given dealers %hold back too like Japanese cars).

[HappyG]

There's a thread on bimmerfest.com that truly explains MACO. It's not a BS fee as I read it, and it somewhat makes sense. I'll try to find that thread..it was in the ask a dealer section I believe.
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