[Mike in Hampshire]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

Drivers come and go and are a employee like everyone else. Its a team of 500 people not 2 drivers.

Perhaps someone should have told Vettel that?

Mike.

[The_Bear_Yid]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

Did it come across as patronising, wasnt meant to.
Its regarded as a team sport and always has been due to the fact that the teams pay for it , not the drivers.

Drivers come and go and are a employee like everyone else. Its a team of 500 people not 2 drivers.

...when you're in the team.

The teams pay for it? I think the sponsors pay a bit too, but I'm sure you'd know more

I don't watch a race and particularly want a team to win. I want the racers I like and the Brits to win.

Drivers are the stars whether you like it or not. Whether they do come and go, or if they're employees.

Take away all the info about the drivers and make it just about the teams and next to none of 'little know nothing joe public' would watch it.

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

Perhaps someone should have told Vettel that?

Mike.

He has had a bit of a talking to already.

Lets not forget Mark trying to run Seb off the road at Brazil last year, you cant take that competitive edge away from the drivers as it is whats make them what they are.

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by The_Bear_Yid

...when you're in the team.

The teams pay for it? I think the sponsors pay a bit too, but I'm sure you'd know more

I don't watch a race and particularly want a team to win. I want the racers I like and the Brits to win.

Drivers are the stars whether you like it or not. Whether they do come and go, or if they're employees.

Take away all the info about the drivers and make it just about the teams and next to none of 'little know nothing joe public' would watch it.

Sponsors dont pay as much as you would think, maybe 15 - 20 %

[F31-340i]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

Sponsors dont pay as much as you would think, maybe 15 - 20 %

Really? For your team would that include/exclude the amount invested by Red Bull (i.e. the drinks company)? If excluded, what is the split for the rest (80%) between FIA/FOM (or whoever) and the owner - presumably Red Bull drinks?

It seems quite a murky subject - Ferrari appear to get paid most by FIA/FOM as they are 'important'.

Is there a link to the budgets & contributions?

[Sparky68]

Purely outside money coming in. We are owned in whole by Dietrich who in turn is part owner of Red Bull [ drink]

Red Bull put all the money in and get sponsorship and prize money that we accrue.

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by ///ajd

Really? For your team would that include/exclude the amount invested by Red Bull (i.e. the drinks company)? If excluded, what is the split for the rest (80%) between FIA/FOM (or whoever) and the owner - presumably Red Bull drinks?

It seems quite a murky subject - Ferrari appear to get paid most by FIA/FOM as they are 'important'.

Is there a link to the budgets & contributions?

Historically, Ferrari got a much bigger slice of what Formula One Management gave to the teams [ this was not widely known by the other teams at the time] Ferrari also had a say in the rules for a considerable time which was also not known.

[Sparky68]

Did anyone see McLarens Tweet to Lewis?

"Feel free to stop by and say hi"

[Gibbo]

I like Kimi and Webber seems a decent guy.
The tyres that last about 10 laps are rubbish
BBC much better without Brundle and Jordan
Looked like they were driving in a Sauna today
Vettel should of just said the radio was broken and saved all the grief
Bring back the fuel stops, tyres that last up to 40 laps and get on with the racing.
Race at Brands in the UK
All my opinion of course....

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

I like Kimi and Webber seems a decent guy.
The tyres that last about 10 laps are rubbish
BBC much better without Brundle and Jordan
Looked like they were driving in a Sauna today
Vettel should of just said the radio was broken and saved all the grief
Bring back the fuel stops, tyres that last up to 40 laps and get on with the racing.
Race at Brands in the UK
All my opinion of course....

[dxb335d]

Having watched the race and also considering my own background in racing I have very strong opinions on what happened this afternoon, I feel
I cannot voice these on this forum.

That is a shame.

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Having watched the race and also considering my own background in racing I have very strong opinions on what happened this afternoon, I feel
I cannot voice these on this forum.

That is a shame.

You should.

[mob17]

IMHO if the team gives orders for both drivers to cruise, then that's what they should do. If they say race then they should race. Was unsporting of Vettel to do that, as Mark was cruising and didn't expect Vettel to race him. There are loads of people in the team that put in the hours for race day, and if they say cruise then the drivers should respect that.

The matter of actually giving out team orders, well i don't think that should happen, unless its late in the season and one of the drivers are going for the championship.

Anyways it now makes for a more exciting battle between Webber and Vettel!

[gangzoom]

I thought the race was fab yesterday. Just like every other organisation internal politics of organisations has as an impact on outcomes, regardless of what is actually happening at the front end of the organisation. It was fab to see how the two different team managers delt with the situation, almost as fascinating as the racing (for me anyways ).

Vettel is clearly driven to win/finish first, I wonder how Hamilton would have reacted if the situation at Mercedes was reversed?? Would Alonso have been happy to sit behind Mass for 14 laps despite been clearly faster just because someone told him to do so?? You don't become the best driver in the world without having your own interest at heart, everyone knows this, but at the same time they are the most thought after drivers, because even though they are not really team players, they deliver results.

What if Vettel had followed team orders and than lost the drivers championship by 5 points come the last race?? How would that effect his relationship with the team??

One thing is for sure, its going to be another fab season

[Hoops]

I will no doubt get torn to bits by the "keyboard warriors" on here for what im about to say but i couldnt care less and never have so here is my two pennies worth...
I know much less than most of you on here about the ins and outs of F1 and the politics therein, and i cant deny how good a driver he is but personally i think Vettel is a complete and utter c**k and ive never liked him. He totally f**ked over Webber and ignored team orders. If i had been Mark i would have asked him for a quick word in my motorhome away from prying eyes and given him a very good slap then told him to f**k off.
That said i cannot stand these bloody "team orders" and although i dont come from a racing background i am hugely competitive person and want to beat the next man more than life itself when im in any competitive position - so if im in my race car and i know i can go faster than the man in front (team mate or no team mate) it is inherent in me to want to pass him and beat him. It would tie me in knots if the radio told me to hold back. Vettel knew full well he would get away with ignoring the radio with little more than a slap on the wrist and he has. So i cant say that i blame Vettel but i still cant stand the little dick. I also appreciate that there is a constructors as well as a drivers championship and never the twain will meet. Its just a crying shame for the viewers (who seem to matter less and less these days as the sports costs spiral out of all realms of reality) when youve watched almost 2 hours of great racing back and forth, positions chopping and changing, to then see the final few laps being driven in formation and cars coasting to the finish line. What would have been awesome would have been to hear all four drivers (Webber/Vettel, Rosberg/Hamilton) say to each other over their radios "listen chaps, fuck the team orders, lets just race and see who crosses the line first" - and the sad thing is back in the day thats probably what would have happened and then later that day they would be in the pub patting each other on the back. Money breeds power and power corrupts and sadly thats what all these high end sports are tainted by.
Ps; Carlos, would love to hear your views on all this fella and dont concern yourself with what others will say, its an open forum and all about expressing your personal views, just do it with decorum!!

[Hoops]

And i tell you what, antics like yesterday wouldn't have happened on Roary The Racing Car, because Big Chris would have put his sandwich down and given them what for!!!!

[- Paul -]

Lol at Roary - true tho. F1 is a team sport, the drivers are paid employees afaik - i.e, they are paid to do a job. Vettel didn't do his.

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

I like Kimi and Webber seems a decent guy.
The tyres that last about 10 laps are rubbish
BBC much better without Brundle and Jordan
Looked like they were driving in a Sauna today
Vettel should of just said the radio was broken and saved all the grief
Bring back the fuel stops, tyres that last up to 40 laps and get on with the racing.
Race at Brands in the UK
All my opinion of course....

Amen.

This new tyre shit is why I don't watch any more. F1 is meant to be about man and technology coming together to produce the fastest track cars on the planet. Instead the senile old Bernie seems to think it is fun that cars have to drive around on crap tyres, and the best car is the one that uses the least rubber, despite being given shit tyres in the first place. Tyres...how exciting!! It is a complete joke that they are deliberately engineered to be rubbish! The stupid one tank of fuel crap can do one too. It's so dull.

This of course was done to "make things exciting" after they killed the best thing the sport had, pit-stops. The pits was the greatest thing about F1, it opened up so many strategies and dilemmas for teams, and the chance for so many mistakes. Nothing like the fuel hose staying on, or not putting enough fuel in.

Next up we'll have artificial rain to make it more fun, or an oil tanker dumping randomly in the race. At which point the sport will be ready for export to the USA and no one else in the world will watch it any more.

[Hoops]

LOL and i totally echo your sentiments.

[Hoops]

Believe it or not a mate of mine is marrying one of Bernies daughters this year - maybe he can have a word in his father-in-law to be's ears!!!

[MEGA]

Vettel is a petulant little twerp.

Felt sorry for Button. Strategised their way to a possible third with that POS car but then screwed up the pit stop

Hamilton.. Glad hes doing ok. Felt for Rosberg though!

[briers]

You are only a real racer if you go for number 1, that is my view.

I have no particular allegiance to any driver. I understand some drivers are consistent point scores and won't take risks. I also realise the teams are looking for their constructors points.

But as a spectator i want to see real racing and this is why i like Hamilton and Vettel. If Vettel can take that car to the end and lap faster than Mark Webber as well as managing his fuel and tyres better, why shouldn't he be number 1.

I wouldn't be too pleased paying to go watch F1 to see the cars drive in formation over the last 15 laps.

I understand why it is done but i dont agree with it, i want to see the drivers fully in control.

Having said that, still massively enjoyed the race weekend.