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      10-12-2017, 07:30 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
+ 220% Tariff on any Canadian Manufactured Aircraft in the 100-150 Seat Capacity and >2900nm range.

+80% On All C-Series.

Calculated based on 7 delivered frames in 2016 and 70 unit total production run for the entire program life.

See the problem yet?
Have you figured out yet the 737s are also used on routes for 110-160 seats planes less than 2900 miles?

You have a french name, sounds like you're just upset bombardier got caught cheating.
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      10-12-2017, 07:36 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
+ 220% Tariff on any Canadian Manufactured Aircraft in the 100-150 Seat Capacity and >2900nm range.

+80% On All C-Series.

Calculated based on 7 delivered frames in 2016 and 70 unit total production run for the entire program life.

See the problem yet?
Have you figured out yet the 737s are also used on routes for 110-160 seats planes less than 2900 miles?
I am more than aware. I have a 737 Type Rating, a rather balanced business acumen including aerospace, and a position in US Trade Envoys. What you got?
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      10-12-2017, 07:48 PM   #157
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The ruling affects all C series aircraft!
no, it affects the deal that delta has with bombardier on our order of aircraft. The fact that other airlines around the world are switching to a more modern and efficient aircraft have nothing to do with the tariff, and are not affected by it.

If you care about American jobs, you should join the fight against the Middle East 3 airlines who are subsidized by their government so they can operate at a loss and kill US and European airlines, not a 50 airplane deal. Boeing supports them because their subsidies through EX-IM directly benefit them.

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      10-12-2017, 07:49 PM   #158
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I am more than aware. I have a 737 Type Rating, a rather balanced business acumen including aerospace, and a position in US Trade Envoys. What you got?
Trudeau also sounds like a french name. Careful cheating in trade to benefit French Quebec. Not a good idea, Canada needs the US more than the US needs Canada.
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      10-12-2017, 07:49 PM   #159
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I am more than aware. I have a 737 Type Rating, a rather balanced business acumen including aerospace, and a position in US Trade Envoys. What you got?
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      10-12-2017, 07:57 PM   #160
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Quote:
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Trudeau also sounds like a french name. Careful cheating in trade to benefit French Quebec. Not a good idea, Canada needs the US more than the US needs Canada.
WTF does my username or Trudeau being Franco have to do with anything?

This was not dumping as defined and the US/UK are right at the tipping point of fucking things up in a way never before seen or even imaginable. It is our loss now; not the remainder of the world. Unlike most, I am comfortably in the 1% but most of you poor schmucks are about to have your asses handed to you unfortunately.
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      10-12-2017, 08:05 PM   #161
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Quote:
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WTF does my username or Trudeau being Franco have to do with anything?

This was not dumping as defined and the US/UK are right at the tipping point of fucking things up in a way never before seen or even imaginable. It is our loss now; not the remainder of the world. Unlike most, I am comfortably in the 1% but most of you poor schmucks are about to have your asses handed to you unfortunately.
He's French,tried sending our jobs to french Quebec by illegally subsidizing Bombardier.
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      10-12-2017, 08:07 PM   #162
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
WTF does my username or Trudeau being Franco have to do with anything?

This was not dumping as defined and the US/UK are right at the tipping point of fucking things up in a way never before seen or even imaginable. It is our loss now; not the remainder of the world. Unlike most, I am comfortably in the 1% but most of you poor schmucks are about to have your asses handed to you unfortunately.
He's French,tried sending our jobs to french Quebec by illegally subsidizing Bombardier.
Sending what jobs? You realize Bombardier is a (grossly mismanaged) Canadian Corporation right?
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      10-12-2017, 08:10 PM   #163
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Have you guys heard of Embraer? The US is their biggest customer, they sell their planes here, they're equally upset. The Canadian firm cheating also hurts them.
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      10-12-2017, 08:16 PM   #164
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Have you guys heard of Embraer? The US is their biggest customer, they sell their planes here, they're equally upset. The Canadian firm cheating also hurts them.
Embraer is questioning the subsidies (not the Delta C-Series LOI). This is not unique and has been an ongoing chain of disputes between every manufacturer.
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      10-12-2017, 08:34 PM   #165
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Embraer is questioning the subsidies (not the Delta C-Series LOI). This is not unique and has been an ongoing chain of disputes between every manufacturer.
The cheating Canadian company defied the WTO...
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      10-12-2017, 08:41 PM   #166
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      10-12-2017, 08:43 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Embraer is questioning the subsidies (not the Delta C-Series LOI). This is not unique and has been an ongoing chain of disputes between every manufacturer.
The cheating Canadian company defied the WTO...
Holy shit...originally published 2002 and updated in 2009.

Manufacturer disputes with the WTO are common and a complete smoke and mirrors show.
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      10-12-2017, 09:05 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Holy shit...originally published 2002 and updated in 2009.

Manufacturer disputes with the WTO are common and a complete smoke and mirrors show.
This one is 2016, the cgearing Bombardier defied an WTO ruling.
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      10-12-2017, 09:25 PM   #169
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Holy shit...originally published 2002 and updated in 2009.

Manufacturer disputes with the WTO are common and a complete smoke and mirrors show.
This one is 2016, the cgearing Bombardier defied an WTO ruling.
And? Find a commercial/defense aerospace entity that HAS NOT violated a WTO ruling more than once.

Bombardier did not conduct dumping. The sale to Delta has not even occurred, Boeing does not offer a product that meets the scope, mission, and economic needs (and they admitted as much in their claim), and then there is this comment from Adam Pilarski; someone who actually knows what he is talking about...

"Boeing has no idea...how much it costs Bombardier to make each jet. Nor does Bombardier. The Canadian plane maker has delivered fewer than 20 planes and tallying production costs of something as advanced as an airliner takes a lot of repetition before a "learning curve" on spending is clear. This is total Looney Tunes, it doesn't make any frickin' sense whatsoever. You cannot establish the facts that Boeing asserts."
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      10-12-2017, 09:26 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Have you figured out yet the 737s are also used on routes for 110-160 seats planes less than 2900 miles?
FYI, no major airline buys aircraft like this.

They have entire departments called "configuration engineering" that manages all of the seating and IFE (in-flight entertainment) and they routinely re-configure all the seats to accommodate different routes or "products", i.e., city-to-city routes.

They custom configure with seating and systems from vendors like BAE.

Further the whole point of buying smaller aircraft is to optimize routes and seats and to fly many smaller aircraft between cities and then be able to re-deploy if the demand shifts.

And further, over water flights with two engines requires ETOPs maintenance so those costs factor into all of the other costs including things like digital data, parts, check vendor availability, engine configurations and their serviceability, etc.

In short, the buying decision is much more about configurability and serviceability than other factors, and that's also where all of the American jobs related to aircraft purchase are: maintenance and ops.

Delta has a whole department called the SOC that has it's own maintenance controllers, meteorologists, etc that monitor every aircraft globally and adjust schedules accordingly. For example if an a/c flying out of Las Vegas has a 9th exhaust gas temperature exceedence it'll need its engine pulled so if it's going to LAX they'll fly it out first thing in the morning and route it to a service station.

TMI, but the point is purchasing a/c is about the maintenance and configuration - it ain't like buying a car, so you can't just say, "oh it's got 200 seats so it compares".
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      10-12-2017, 09:35 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
And? Find a commercial/defense aerospace entity that HAS NOT violated a WTO ruling more than once.

Bombardier did not conduct dumping. The sale to Delta has not even occurred, Boeing does not offer a product that meets the scope, mission, and economic needs (and they admitted as much in their claim), and then there is this comment from Adam Pilarski; someone who actually knows what their talking about...

"Boeing has no idea...how much it costs Bombardier to make each jet. Nor does Bombardier. The Canadian plane maker has delivered fewer than 20 planes and tallying production costs of something as advanced as an airliner takes a lot of repetition before a "learning curve" on spending is clear. This is total Looney Tunes, it doesn't make any frickin' sense whatsoever. You cannot establish the facts that Boeing asserts."

I understand you're getting all worked up about the tariffs bc it affects a Quebec based company.
Bombardier can take Boeing and Embraer to court as well over your allegations .
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      10-12-2017, 09:44 PM   #172
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lemetier GrussGott ... at some point, you just have to stop beating your head against the wall. It doesn't matter how many times he's been proven wrong, he'll keep posting the same thing over and over again ... all he succeeds in doing is proving that he's not even competent at using Google, and that's a pretty low bar.

The good news is that he'll eventually get so offended that not everyone agrees with him that he'll take his ball and go pout somewhere for a few months. That's what he did last time.
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      10-12-2017, 09:44 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
And? Find a commercial/defense aerospace entity that HAS NOT violated a WTO ruling more than once.

Bombardier did not conduct dumping. The sale to Delta has not even occurred, Boeing does not offer a product that meets the scope, mission, and economic needs (and they admitted as much in their claim), and then there is this comment from Adam Pilarski; someone who actually knows what their talking about...

"Boeing has no idea...how much it costs Bombardier to make each jet. Nor does Bombardier. The Canadian plane maker has delivered fewer than 20 planes and tallying production costs of something as advanced as an airliner takes a lot of repetition before a "learning curve" on spending is clear. This is total Looney Tunes, it doesn't make any frickin' sense whatsoever. You cannot establish the facts that Boeing asserts."

I understand you're getting all worked up about the tariffs bc it affects a Quebec based company.
Bombardier can take Boeing and Embraer to court as well over your allegations .
No. It’s obscene abuse of law by the largest company in the US and sets a very bad precedent for malicious litigation over a large swath of industries.

On my desk are plans that remove an initial cut of 223k jobs from the US in the next 18 months because of the pathetic stance the US is taking for no just reason. It is truly disgusting.
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      10-12-2017, 09:48 PM   #174
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No. It?s unprecedented abuse of law by the largest company in the US and sets a very bad precedent for malicious litigation over a large swath of industries.

On my desk are plans that remove an initial cut of 223k jobs from the US in the next 18 months because of the pathetic stance the US is taking for no just reason. It?s truly disgusting.


Nafta is next, no more eating our lunch.we want fair trade.
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      10-12-2017, 09:53 PM   #175
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
No. It?s unprecedented abuse of law by the largest company in the US and sets a very bad precedent for malicious litigation over a large swath of industries.

On my desk are plans that remove an initial cut of 223k jobs from the US in the next 18 months because of the pathetic stance the US is taking for no just reason. It?s truly disgusting.


Nafta is next, no more eating our lunch.we want fair trade.
I’m aware. That’s an additional 54k initial job cuts for 2018.

There were fair trade deals ready to go, but that’s not Trump Style. Hell the Auto Industry Harmonization Agreements would have balanced the GDP by $24B in the first year alone but that’s not fair is it?
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      10-12-2017, 09:57 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
lemetier GrussGott ... at some point, you just have to stop beating your head against the wall. It doesn't matter how many times he's been proven wrong, he'll keep posting the same thing over and over again ... all he succeeds in doing is proving that he's not even competent at using Google, and that's a pretty low bar.

The good news is that he'll eventually get so offended that not everyone agrees with him that he'll take his ball and go pout somewhere for a few months. That's what he did last time.
This is my release mechanism from the daily reality that?s identical in context unfortunately.

As for anglo
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