[roninsoldier83]

Originally Posted by Litos

Blah blah blah, I have no idea what I'm talking about and have poor reading comprehension skills.

Hey there Master Non-Tuner, you think a stock turbo STI makes just as much low-end (pre-3500rpm) torque as a stock 335i, fine, here's a challenge: prove it. I posted my graphs, they show different. Put your money where your mouth is, take your 335i to the same dyno as your STI, and post graphs of both. I've schooled you repeatedly, but you're too dense to comprehend anything worth note.

You think I could've created more low-end torque on my STI somehow? You didn't even see a log... you know nothing about tuning, but you somehow think that based on a different car, at a different elevation with likely different mods, in different conditions, pushing less peak boost spooling slightly faster means that my car at my elevation, with different mods, under different conditions, pushing more boost should spool just as fast and be able to maintain peak boost (with a higher pressure no less haha) just as well? Hahaha!! You can't be serious.... that's what we like to call "Ricer Logic" haha! If you're trying to decrease lag (improve low-end torque on a turbo car), you can lean out AFR's a bit during spool, advance timing and play with AVCS... all of which will yield a very marginal decrease in spool time... all of which were optimized on my old STI. At my elevation, that's as good as it gets with the mods I was running. Those parameters that can help with spool-up do not determine peak boost pressure (largest contributing factor to peak torque)... hence, on a modern turbo car you don't have to "sacrifice" low-end torque in order to make large peak torque numbers, as a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite, as typically the lower RPM you can spool a turbo on a car like the STI, the greater potential you're going to have to increase peak torque. Don't take my word for it, go join openecu.org or spend sometime in the EM section over on Nasioc and search/find out for yourself.

Those same "mountain ranges" of torque curves (even though they're not that far off from the poorly drawn line you posted earlier), they're nearly identical to the dynos of the fastest STI's in the country.... keep telling yourself you like your car a certain way because that's what your tuner tells you to like

However, realize that my old car was pushing 20-21psi at 5200-6000ft elevation (your turbo wasn't working nearly as hard pushing 18psi at sea level, making it easier to make a "flatter" looking curve), and a turbo has to work HARDER/spin faster in order to push the SAME boost pressure up here. 20-21psi up here is about the equivalent of the same sized turbo pushing ~23-25psi at sea level. If you were pushing your turbo as hard as I was (in the ~23-25psi range at peak at sea level), your curve would have looked JUST like mine, and everyone else that has an STI that pushes their turbo that hard. In other words, that small "mid-range advantage" you make it appear as though you would have had (you didn't) wouldn't have been there. Your curve would have looked like mine, and your car would have been faster (although those boost levels don't play nice with pump gas). Don't believe me? Do a search over on Nasioc for people pushing those boost levels/pushing their turbo as hard as I was, and you'll see their curves are all going to look like mine (except they'll spool just a bit earlier if they're at sea level, assuming they're on the same type/model of dyno of course/same scaling ect).

...but please, oh-wise one, please explain to me how I "sacrificed" low-end torque based on looking at 1 dyno graph Please, oh please, break this down to me [waiting for poorly explained BS you thought you might have read on the Internet]. My old car could not spool any faster based on conditions & modifications... guess what? If my STI spooled slower up here because of conditions, that means my 335xi does too.... wait for it... wait for it... so it's directly comparable! If I was at sea level, my STI would have spooled faster/made more low-end torque... and so would my 335xi!! Prove me wrong though Find a stock STI and stock 335i on the same dyno, and post graphs (just a hint, Cobb has a HUGE dyno database, you might want to start there )

Honestly, I know you're in way over your head here and just trying to save face, but rather than arguing without any prior experience to backup your suppositions, you might just benefit from paying attention and trying to build your own knowledge base. In truth, if I were someone like yourself who is not even confident enough with my own mechanical abilities to install a JB4 and DCI by myself, I probably wouldn't be arguing with someone who has been tearing apart engines/drivetrains/suspensions/ect and tuning modern EFI ECU's for the better part of a decade. Just a bit of advice to avoid embarrassment in the future :
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488344

Originally Posted by Litos

hey guys, i'm not the most mechanically inclined person in the world, so i'm willing to donate some Hooters and/or tons of beer for someone that is willing to install my JB4 and DCI's.

we can meet tonight or anytime after 10:30AM tomorrow

EDIT: I found a comparison dyno for you below. Cliff notes: I was right (obviously). Even at your elevation (cars below are in Austin, TX), 335i has significantly more torque down low. Big surprise haha.

[roninsoldier83]

Here you go cupcake, here is an overlayed dyno of both a stock STI and a stock 335i on Cobb's dyno in Austin, TX:

http://accessecu.com/dyno/

^^^Would you lookie there... below 3500rpm, the STI gets murdered (doesn't make nearly as much low-end torque).... just like at my altitude...just like I said previously... that's weird haha! Way to be wrong buddy.

[/thread]

[BoostedBarrett]

I have had 2 sti's 05-06, with Stock Turbo, FPgreen, with full race suspension and Tunes. I most recently had an 06 Evo IX with 400hp. All I can say is that I loved the "quick" handling the Sti can have once you get springs and sway bars.

I DO NOT miss the STI interior and LOVE the BMW luxury. The power on the 335 is enough to still feel fast and with sway bars, it handles pretty damn well. I am glad to have raced 2 years of NASA Time Trials with my STI's but on a daily basis I don't miss my STI's one bit!

335 FTW.

[Chartreux3]

I should have just left this thread alone but I have good experience with the sti and 335i. I had an 07 sti since new for 4 years and it broke my heart when it blew a ringland. The sti always drank oil no matter what kind of oil I tried and it kept getting worse. The car was extreamly well taken care of oil changes 2-3 k miles full synthetic. I had alot of high quality bolt ons. Nvidia downpipe, Cobb accessport, perrin EL headers, fujitsubo exhaust, 850cc injectors, fuel pump, crawford AOS, etc. I had it pro tuned when it was stock and retuned with bolt ons. I put down 281 hp on precision tuning dynojet.

Since then I purchased an 07 e92 manual with dinan s2. I can honestly say there is no comparison between the cars. As a matter of fact I dont think they should even be compared. The only thing the sti has an advantage of the 335i is traction in the wet and snow. The power output on the 335i is much more linear and controlled. The sti power output feels tiny compared to the broad powerband of the 335i. I was surprised to find out the 335i is much faster in an autox also. My first time with the 335i in an autox course that has the same setup for the past 11 years proved 4 seconds faster 60 sec vs 64 for the sti. The sti is more laggy and low end power is lacking compared to 335i.

This may be subjective but I find the 335i is alot more fun and pleasureable to drive than the sti. Build quality there is no comparison bmw all the way. I truely did love my subie but the bimmer is a whole new level.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Traded in my 07 335i for an 09 Sti, missed the BMW and now I'm back in a 135i. The only thing I miss on the Sti is the awesome awd and adjustable diffs, really came in handy in a few snowstorms

[bulldog_yyc]

exhaust note on the STI with downpipes is a thing of beauty. Tough to compare the Subaru to a BMW as the cars have completely different DNA but don't short the STI quickly, its a very capable car for the money,

[spiike32]

Originally Posted by roninsoldier83

Here you go cupcake, here is an overlayed dyno of both a stock STI and a stock 335i on Cobb's dyno in Austin, TX:

http://accessecu.com/dyno/

^^^Would you lookie there... below 3500rpm, the STI gets murdered (doesn't make nearly as much low-end torque).... just like at my altitude...just like I said previously... that's weird haha! Way to be wrong buddy.

[/thread]

Going through this thread I was rather even between the 335i and sti... until that ^^^

that torque curve... no thanks. Driveability of the 335i = win. That is also a stock 335i without a tune and the lag fix.

[gerardm]

this is my friends 335i ar downpipes / v4 and my girls wrx cobb tune, downpipes, exhaust. granted its not an sti but u get the idea. doesnt have the low rpm but u can see the where its basically coming from which is nothing like a tuned 335i

[Q4P]

I know this may not be relevant but if I was going for an AWD 4-Banger turbo, the evo would be my choice. It might not be as nice to look at inside or out but most will say it is a better car. The engine is far more reliable and it is much cheaper to get power out of it, in addition the turbo is rather large.

[kdiggz]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I know this may not be relevant but if I was going for an AWD 4-Banger turbo, the evo would be my choice. It might not be as nice to look at inside or out but most will say it is a better car. The engine is far more reliable and it is much cheaper to get power out of it, in addition the turbo is rather large.

+1. i don't know why the sti is so popular. the wrx is just as fast on anything but a road course and the evo is imo better in every way. i used to have an sti and now i have the evo and it's not even close. the sti remains very popular however for whatever reason.

compared to the bmw as a daily driver, i think u would be crazy to trade it in for the sti. as an everyday car i would miss the luxury of the bmw too much. the performance is close enough that i wouldn't be caught dead slumming it in the sti unless i was all about road course racing every weekend and in that case i would get the evo

[Litos]

if i were to get another tubo car, it would have to be an EVO MR - auto with paddles.

i cannot imagine driving another turbo'd 5 or 6 speed after driving my A6 Cobb'd BMW.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by Litos

if i were to get another tubo car, it would have to be an EVO MR - auto with paddles.

i cannot imagine driving another turbo'd 5 or 6 speed after driving my A6 Cobb'd BMW.

Be aware though that the MR dual clutch tranny only holds until about 320 WHP and then you run into problems. That's one of the reasons no one buys them in the MR version and there have been very few if any impressive 1/4 mile times set with that tranny.

[wardvette]

35K miles is nothing. You'll be in much better financial shape in 3 years if you keep the 335i, even after considering repairs or additional warranty. Doesn't make sense to spend an extra $15K on a car you don't like as much.

I can understand downgrading in build quality and interior for additional performance (I have a Corvette), but the STI and 335i are so close that you basically don't gain anything other than less miles. Some people like the looks and image of an STi which is fine but you mentioned "avoiding the ricer" image which means you shouldn't get an STi LOL.

[kdiggz]

Originally Posted by Litos

if i were to get another tubo car, it would have to be an EVO MR - auto with paddles.

i cannot imagine driving another turbo'd 5 or 6 speed after driving my A6 Cobb'd BMW.

yea and in that case you probably won't be able to imagine getting inside an economy car interior after the bmw either. the evo is a great performance car but i don't think i could daily drive it or something like it ever again. i'm selling mine. i don't drive it anymore. the bmw is close enough in performance on city streets that it's not worth the compromise of driving the evo.

[Imperator]

ROR, Japanese cars.