[davesaddiction]

It's both. I am the one doing it, getting it right or getting it wrong, and no computer in between is going to decide to veto me. There's no modulating the clutch if it's an on/off switch... Also, the involvement of using both legs does contribute to the enjoyment, the feeling of connected-ness to the machine: Mazda's term is "jinba ittai".

What's next: self-driving cars that let you play like you're steering the wheel, but computers are doing it all for you?

[Aventador97]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

It's both. I am the one doing it, getting it right or getting it wrong, and no computer in between is going to decide to veto me. There's no modulating the clutch if it's an on/off switch... Also, the involvement of using both legs does contribute to the enjoyment, the feeling of connected-ness to the machine: Mazda's term is "jinba ittai".

What's next: self-driving cars that let you play like you're steering the wheel, but computers are doing it all for you?

Ya I think your right, I just think that it's a step forward regarding "save the manuals". I'm with you that nothing will ever be able to replace the feeling and satisfaction of a manual car. The problem is that high end exotic manufacturers can't justify developing new manual transmissions because the market isn't there. If a transmission like his idea can slowly bring the manual back into demand, thus forcing manufactures to develop it again, I'm for it.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by Aventador97

The problem is that high end exotic manufacturers can't justify developing new manual transmissions because the market isn't there. If a transmission like his idea can slowly bring the manual back into demand, thus forcing manufactures to develop it again, I'm for it.

Not quite. Manuals are dead, dead, dead. But manual lovers are still around - the manufacturers will have to wait awhile until they're all dead, dead, dead too. The question is what to do in the meantime. If a relatively simple, low-cost adaptation of state-of-the-art hybrid transmissions can satisfy traditionalists until they die off, manufacturers can maximize demand for their products. And once DTS (Driver-Timed Shifting) is perfected, it can be specified as the front-end for whatever transmission technology (from Fred Flinstone's peds to DCT) is really making the car go.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by mdosu

off to prostitute myself out...so I need about $143,000 so that's what 1000 fat chicks at $143 each? or 143 really fat chicks at $1000 each??!!

Originally Posted by williakz

A thought experiment...

What if DCTs came with a "stick" gear shifter along with a "clutch" pedal? The shifter would tell the DCT which gear to select and the pedal would be non-functional but give the driver the "feel" of clutching? Driving would be easier as every shift could be perfectly timed and would be perfectly executed, yet it would still be engaging for those expert in the use of a manual transmissions. Would this arrangement satisfy traditionalists? Can the engineers pull it off? Thoughts?

both great ideas

[swanson]

The problem is the pussification of man. Todays man(not all, but A LOT) doesnt want to work too much to drive. He just wants to be seen is something nice and expensive to show off in and wants to sip on hit latte all while driving an automatic/DCT. Not saying everybody is like this, but its true. Porsche is looking for more sales. They know that the GT3 is a pretty rare car compared to the regular 911 and only having a manual will alienate the posers. Now that PDK is available, the posers can be seen in the rarer 911 to show off. The manual transmission not only involves the driver and makes you feel like part of the experience, but it weeds out these posers.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by swanson

The problem is the pussification of man. Todays man(not all, but A LOT) doesnt want to work too much to drive. He just wants to be seen is something nice and expensive to show off in and wants to sip on hit latte all while driving an automatic/DCT. Not saying everybody is like this, but its true. Porsche is looking for more sales. They know that the GT3 is a pretty rare car compared to the regular 911 and only having a manual will alienate the posers. Now that PDK is available, the posers can be seen in the rarer 911 to show off. The manual transmission not only involves the driver and makes you feel like part of the experience, but it weeds out these posers.

I get what you're saying, but what about the real F1 racers who use (what I'm assuming) an even more advanced version of PDK?

Are they too considered "pussies"?

I personally felt like more of a purists when I drove a SMG M5. The rev-matching downshifts, throttle blips, instantaneous gear shifts, it was a much more visceral experience to me than rowing through the gears.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

I get what you're saying, but what about the real F1 racers who use (what I'm assuming) an even more advanced version of PDK?

Are they too considered "pussies"?

I personally felt like more of a purists when I drove a SMG M5. The rev-matching downshifts, throttle blips, instantaneous gear shifts, it was a much more visceral experience to me than rowing through the gears.

C'mon man. Dont compare F1 with a little porsche.

I'll give you an example. I had a C6 Z06 and a 2011 M3 DCT. I wanted the DCT to see what it was all about. As you may know, the Z06 comes in manual only. While the DCT does in fact shift much faster then I or anybody else can shift and downshift, it was still dull to drive compared to the manual. Maybe that has a lot to do with the fact that the Z06 is a more capable and powerful car, but I've had plenty of manual cars to know its more than that. The manual, TO ME, is just a more pleasurable driving experience. It keeps you involved and on your toes. Its way more rewarding to me to make precise up and down shifts with the manual. I just feel like I'M driving the car and not the other way around.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by swanson

The manual, TO ME, is just a more pleasurable driving experience. It keeps you involved and on your toes. Its way more rewarding to me to make precise up and down shifts with the manual. I just feel like I'M driving the car and not the other way around.

And if the engineers can replicate that "feeling" by the clever application of technology? Like they pump engine sound into the cabin to recreate the traditional sports car sound? Like they carefully and purposely allow road bumps to be transmitted through steering components so you get the "feel" of 1930's steering technology using 21st century components?

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by williakz

And if the engineers can replicate that "feeling" by the clever application of technology?

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by swanson

C'mon man. Dont compare F1 with a little porsche.

I'll give you an example. I had a C6 Z06 and a 2011 M3 DCT. I wanted the DCT to see what it was all about. As you may know, the Z06 comes in manual only. While the DCT does in fact shift much faster then I or anybody else can shift and downshift, it was still dull to drive compared to the manual. Maybe that has a lot to do with the fact that the Z06 is a more capable and powerful car, but I've had plenty of manual cars to know its more than that. The manual, TO ME, is just a more pleasurable driving experience. It keeps you involved and on your toes. Its way more rewarding to me to make precise up and down shifts with the manual. I just feel like I'M driving the car and not the other way around.

Fair enough. The debate will go on for decades

[F1Venom]

Freud would probably explain manual transmission lovers as having some hidden homosexual impulses. The stick shifter is the penis and the manual tranny fanboy loves to hold it in his hand. Now he might not be attracted to men, but he loves the feeling of a penile object and controlling it with his hands.

[Red Bread]

Ugh, Freud can shove it! A manual is like having a good three course meal. An automatic is like having a burger, fries, ketchup and a chocolate shake blended together in a single cup.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

Freud would probably explain manual transmission lovers as having some hidden homosexual impulses. The stick shifter is the penis and the manual tranny fanboy loves to hold it in his hand. Now he might not be attracted to men, but he loves the feeling of a penile object and controlling it with his hands.

So the auto manual and automatic would be what - an Orgasmatron?

[F1Venom]

Using my left foot to press in the clutch makes me feel like Ronnie Coleman doing leg presses. I feel so powerful jamming the pedal down to floor as fast as possible, I think my steroid addiction may have been cured because of manual transmissions.
In an auto my left leg might as well be kicking elderly people down the stairs because it's freaking useless in autos!

[KingOfJericho]

An auto is like taking a pill of nutrients as a meal while driving a manual is twirling the spaghetti and tasting every morsel. They both get you to the same place and one might be faster but I would much rather twirl that fork.

[Aventador97]

Ya I do, think that sadly you guys are right about manuals being "dead, dead, dead" and that manufactures will have to wait for us to die off, I think that you guys said it perfectly when stating that PDKs/paddle shifters are popular because people don't want to work to drive. People are lazy and just as you stated don't want to be the guy who stalls at a red light. People don't want to look bad and when you learn stock there are definitely instances where you look bad, but at the end of the day someone who can drive stick can drive an automatic far better then someone who can't. Stick makes you an overall better driver. In my opinion, paddle shifters allow people which ordinarily wouldn't be able to handle a performance car to drive them hard with out much difficultly. Imagine if the Veyron was a stick shift car, I'm willing to bet 80% of the people who own them (especially your rappers) couldn't drive the car hard at all, because it takes skill. Regarding F1, yes, they need paddle shifters. Obviously they are better for performance, but off the track the tenth of a second doesn't matter. I think Jay Leno said it well when he said "The fun happens between 40-120 mph" and you don't really need a paddle shift car in that time period.

[KingOfJericho]

I'm actually a terrible automatic driver. My wife hates it when I drive our FX.

[BMW269]

Automatic is shit. Manual is alot more involving. It is like computer+printer vs. typewriter. With a computer you just press some prgramed buttons, with types writer you have to find out how hard to press that button which then mecanically types a letter on a white sheet of paper. You better be good at spelling. Ther is so much more involvement in writing with a typewriter than a computer. And that sound....

To hell with computers. Long live the typewriter.

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I'm actually a terrible automatic driver.

That is a shame. It means you are even worse at driving manual.

[Draman]

Originally Posted by Aventador97

Ya I do, think that sadly you guys are right about manuals being "dead, dead, dead" and that manufactures will have to wait for us to die off, I think that you guys said it perfectly when stating that PDKs/paddle shifters are popular because people don't want to work to drive. People are lazy and just as you stated don't want to be the guy who stalls at a red light. People don't want to look bad and when you learn stock there are definitely instances where you look bad, but at the end of the day someone who can drive stick can drive an automatic far better then someone who can't. Stick makes you an overall better driver. In my opinion, paddle shifters allow people which ordinarily wouldn't be able to handle a performance car to drive them hard with out much difficultly. Imagine if the Veyron was a stick shift car, I'm willing to bet 80% of the people who own them (especially your rappers) couldn't drive the car hard at all, because it takes skill. Regarding F1, yes, they need paddle shifters. Obviously they are better for performance, but off the track the tenth of a second doesn't matter. I think Jay Leno said it well when he said "The fun happens between 40-120 mph" and you don't really need a paddle shift car in that time period.

No offense, but this is easily one of the stupidest things I have read. Make whatever argument you want about driving a manual being more involving than an automatic, but being able to drive a manual does not necessarily make you a better driver. It most certainly does not make you better able to drive an automatic than someone that can't drive a manual; there are professional race car drivers out there that do not know how to drive manual at all, there was an interview with an F1 driver about a year ago (wish I could remember who it was) where he said as much. Are you a better driver than an F1 driver because you have a mighty manual transmission in your Cobra?

[Aventador97]

No offense taken, manual vs automatic, is always a fun debate. I don't feel that I'm better than any F1 driver at all, that's just not a fair comparison. However, I do believe that I'm a better driver than someone with the exact same experience, but drives an automatic. That's just my opinion, obviously yours differs and that's fine. I'm not saying that an automatic makes you a bad driver and that every car should be a manual. There is a time and place for both transmissions, I just don't feel that in high performance cars that a paddle shift car is the same. I really do think that paddle shift cars are popular, because they give the everyday driver the ability to drive past what their ability in a stick shift would be. Now regarding daily drivers (like many 3-series), I have no problems with automatics; that's what their purpose is. I do think that everyone should learn to drive stick, because (again my opinion) knowing how to drive stick causes you to think more. It involves you with the car a lot more than an automatic and makes you consider more factors. Thus making you a better driver when you understand the car more. Obviously, as you stated that the ability and calibre of driver differs. Yes the F1 driver who doesn't know stick is a better driver than my self, but I think if you took two F1 drivers (one who knows stick and one who doesn't) with the same amount of experience I think the one who knows both is going to be your better driver.

[W///]

Not all of us are after all out speed, that's the problem. Like the article said, I'll gladly lose a few tenths of a second to 60 (hell there's always a car that's faster than you anyway, think GTR) but get to actually drive the car.

I just don't understand why Porsche goes through all the trouble of designing a great 7MT, but only to put in Carreras. And don't tell me the cost is too high to have both as an option. The VW group has more resources than any other car company/group.

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

It's both. I am the one doing it, getting it right or getting it wrong, and no computer in between is going to decide to veto me. There's no modulating the clutch if it's an on/off switch... Also, the involvement of using both legs does contribute to the enjoyment, the feeling of connected-ness to the machine: Mazda's term is "jinba ittai".

What's next: self-driving cars that let you play like you're steering the wheel, but computers are doing it all for you?

Freaken hilarious

[Red Bread]

Good grief. I love manuals and will always have at least one, but I can't say it makes me a better driver. I have driven PDK/F1/DSG cars on the track and it sure does give you more bandwidth to deal with the racing line, tire slip and other cars. If I wanted a GT3 for track use, I'd be ecstatic about this change, but since I'd rather use it as a glorified grocery getter, it does make me a little sad that there's no available manual, even if a Carrera S with PDK might dust me at traffic lights.