Door Panel Dissasembly

ScotyH · 11-29-2005, 02:53 PM

Does anyone have instructions on how to take the front door panels off?

Also wondering on the depth of the front door speakers if anyone can help.

Thanks!

Tierfreund · 11-30-2005, 03:13 AM

Panel disassembly is simple. Take of trim. Loosen the 4 Torx screws behind it. Pull of panel from (It´s now only clipped in)

At the passenger side you also need to take the cover off the door handle and lossen the Tory scew behind that.

Be carefull when reattaching not to break the clips or the door will rattle and have wind noise. Best to get some replacement clips beforhand and to be very carefull and precise in alligning the door board before pushing the clips in.

The factory door speakers are not very deep. You can install deeper ones though, there´s enough space. But the diameter is only 4 inches. You won´t achive much by changing them.

ScotyH · 11-30-2005, 07:20 AM

Thanks Tierfreund, I thought you'd be the one to reply.

As for the speaker replacement, I will be replacing all of the speakers in the car with some pretty high end stuff and running them with a crapload of power. I'll be adding a 12" sub for low bass(that'll go in the trunk storage well). There is also time alignment in my audio systems future for razor sharp imaging. Probably around 1500 watts RMS output from the amps. I'll seldom use full power but it will ensure clarity and dynamic range at just about any volume.

Tierfreund · 11-30-2005, 07:33 AM

I´ve gone a similar route. I´m running a Becker headunit and an Alpine PXA-H600 DSP for full time allignment.
Full active setup with 2 Genesis Stereo 100 (2 Subs and 2 mids front) and a Stereo 60 for the front tweater. Also a tiny Sony XM-2020 für the factory rears as rearfills (veryvery little of it as to not spoil the front staging)

As for front speakers, I´ve fit a Polk MM3000 tweater (the legendary old thing) in the factory location at the front window plus a set of Göhrlich 4 inchers (they´re excellent and a bit deep, so I know a deep speaker will fit in the door)

Trouble with going full active on the front speaker is that you have to run additional speaker wires in the front doors since the factory setup only has one speaker line going in the door. With there being a plug between the door and the body, that´s not easy. I´ve ended up getting plug and socket components from BMW and rewiring the door plug. Quite a bit of work.

But with a fully active setup and the full time allignment and full 31 channel G-EQ for EACH channel on the Alpine DSP you really can work magic. Only throuble is not to get lost in the many opportunities of the DSP.

Btw. as for subs, I´m actually still running the factory 6inch seat subs. It´s amazing what they´ll do when properly fed with some serious power and a good EQ. You have far less loss from that position than coming from the trunk. I´m thinking about upgrading to the Logic 7 10inch subs for under the seats nevertheless.
I think the underseat subs are a great invention. Not only for the trunk space you save but mostly for the great acoustics they provide. And they don´t spoil the front staging as trunk subs often do.

Glad to hear you´re going for time allingment. Apart from a Dolby Pro Logic setup it´s the only way to get a decent staging and imaging.
Your plans sound good. I wish I could listen in when you´re ready.

ScotyH · 11-30-2005, 08:54 AM

Finally!!! Someone that knows what quality car audio is all about. I too will go full active on the crossovers. What did you use to make your headunit fit into the factory location? Did you get an interface to make the steering wheel controls function with your headunit. Any idea what kind of air volume is in the underseat sub enclosres? I was thinking of running a mid bass speaker in there, probably from 60- 200 Hz.

Tierfreund · 11-30-2005, 09:29 AM

I used a bracket from the orignal BMW Indianapolis RadioNavigation retrofit kit. It´s expensive, but other than the aftermarket solutions, it has the radio flush and in the middle of the dash.

You can find pictures of it here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=true+terra

I also have a CAN-Bus adaptor for the steering wheel functions. That works just fine.

As for the subs under the seat, I don´t know the exact volume of the enclosure. It´s a relatively complex enclosure that also uses the volume in the sills. As for fitting different speakers in there, that might be difficult. I haven´t had my seats out yet (btw. If and when you do, take the seats out at some point, do not reuse the bolts. They are lengthening bolts that are for one-time use only. You need new bolts and have to torque them to an exact 44nm or you´ll risk the crash safety), so I can´t tell how deep the chassis can be. But my guess would be (from the pictures I have seen), not very.

Besides, in a fully active setup with a (digital) active crossover, you can run the door speakers down to relatively low hertzes. I´m running mine down to 100Hz and then cut them off with 24db/Oct. Gives very precise Kickbass. You might get some rattling from the door, but that´s easily fixed with a little dynamat. The E90 door is relatively solid. Just a little reinforcement on the door panel perhaps.
Personally I like to go with as few chassis as possible. Less chassis, less problems.

I have an friend from the sound-off days (yes, I used to run around in that circus, competing and judging) who works at Alpine Europe nowadays and builds their demo cars. He´s done quite a few E60 with the underseat sub setup and he told me, if he hadn´t HAD to put some subs in the trunk for show and marketing purposes, he would have left the underseat subs just the way they are. He admitted (and he´s the one of the two best installers I know), that it´s virtually impoosible to retrofit a better sub-system than the underseat subs. And that´s with the resources of a company like Alpine. A trunk setup will be able to play louder and harder, but not actually better than (the Logic7 version of ) the underseat subs. So unless your into db drag, give the factory subs a try. Having a 330 means you have the Logic 7 subs. Just hook them up to a decent amp and Eq, and I´m sure you´ll be amazed what they can do. Plus you can then use the storage compartment in the trunk for your amps/DSP etc.

Only disadvantage: No show-off component.

And if you don´t like the way it sounds, you can still fit a big sub in the trunk later. There´s no harm in trying the factory subs first. Don´t be fooled by how they sound with the factory amp and EQ. They can do a lot more.

ScotyH · 11-30-2005, 10:42 AM

Do you remember the manufacturer of the CAN-bus adaptor that you used. Was it PAC ?

In regards to keeping the system simple, I agree. The best sounding systems that I have had in the past use few speakers. I just thought that even a premium aftermarket 4" wouldn't give me what I want. However with your given input, I wil try using the factory woofers.

I don't have Logic7, my headunit has "Professional" stamped on it. I was told that they were 8" woofers. Does that sound right?

helderbarata · 11-30-2005, 12:02 PM

See this in http://bmwfaq.com/showthread.php?t=88824, is in spanish but you have photos.

Look our forum its very good, we have ideas to put everything in our car, mirror with garage door open, exhaust instalation,etc

Tierfreund · 11-30-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotyH

Do you remember the manufacturer of the CAN-bus adaptor that you used. Was it PAC ?

In regards to keeping the system simple, I agree. The best sounding systems that I have had in the past use few speakers. I just thought that even a premium aftermarket 4" wouldn't give me what I want. However with your given input, I wil try using the factory woofers.

I don't have Logic7, my headunit has "Professional" stamped on it. I was told that they were 8" woofers. Does that sound right?

The CAN-BUS adaptor is by the company AIV. But I think theyre available in Europe only.

If you have a US spec 330, you should have Logic 7. And with Logic 7 you have the highest grade 8inch woofer available for the E90. The standard Hifi-System also has an 8 inch woofer, but a cheaper version.

The Professional headunit is standard on all US spec E90 but says nothing about the installed stereo system. Wether or not you have logic 7 can be seen at your rear doors. If you have speakers in your rear doors, you have Logic7

The Professional Radio does not have preamp outs, so if you want to go for a truely audiophile system you need to get a different Headunit. Which is a pitty because the Professional radio is actually very good. (Manufactured by alpine)

Tierfreund · 11-30-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helderbarata

See this in http://bmwfaq.com/showthread.php?t=88824, is in spanish but you have photos.

Look our forum its very good, we have ideas to put everything in our car, mirror with garage door open, exhaust instalation,etc

That´s a great link. Very helpfull. i wish I had known of it before I took my doors apart. Would have saved me a lot of time....

Shamu · 01-10-2007, 02:51 AM

Hello,

I'm thinking of upgrading the stock hi-fi system in the e92, and given your experience and expertise in this area, was hoping you can provide some direction to the following. I believe my first step will be to just upgrade the stock speakers without messing with the stock HU and/or amp...

1. do you know the max depth of new speakers i can go for both the fronts and rears?

2. i'm assuming the stock amp powers all the speakers in the car, do you know the rms stats on the stock amp, and if the delivery range from the amp is adjustable? i ask this because my second step is to add a mono or bridge 2-way amp and a sub to handle all the low-end freqs...so in my mind, i'm sending the higher-range to the front and rear speakers, mid-range to the "stock subs" under the seats, and low-end to an aftermarket sub powered by a separate aftermarket amp...would you advise against this setup?

I'm sorry if I'm not using the correct terminology but am very new to this, so any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much for any info you can provide!

PS -- my goal in this upgrade is nothing dramatic, but an overall tangible improvement in both the quality and "oomph" of the sound in the car.

boggysv · 01-17-2007, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tierfreund

Glad to hear you´re going for time allingment. Apart from a Dolby Pro Logic setup it´s the only way to get a decent staging and imaging.

Positioning people...it's all about positioning!!!
( at least that was what a really old school iasca competitor told me

)

anyways, did you mention that the factory only gives you a tweeter and a 4" space on the front doors? and only a 6" sub under the seat?
Would you find that a little.."small"?

I'm guessing that if I want a 6" mid, and a 10" sub, I'd need to do some serious cutting, no?

11-29-2005, 02:53 PM	#1
ScotyH Bimmer me up 19 Rep 340 Posts Drives: 08 M3, 2010 GTR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Edmonton,AB iTrader: (0)	Door Panel Dissasembly Does anyone have instructions on how to take the front door panels off? Also wondering on the depth of the front door speakers if anyone can help. Thanks!
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11-30-2005, 03:13 AM	#2
Tierfreund Major 21 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: E90 330i Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Panel disassembly is simple. Take of trim. Loosen the 4 Torx screws behind it. Pull of panel from (It´s now only clipped in) At the passenger side you also need to take the cover off the door handle and lossen the Tory scew behind that. Be carefull when reattaching not to break the clips or the door will rattle and have wind noise. Best to get some replacement clips beforhand and to be very carefull and precise in alligning the door board before pushing the clips in. The factory door speakers are not very deep. You can install deeper ones though, there´s enough space. But the diameter is only 4 inches. You won´t achive much by changing them. __________________ No, not THAT kind of tierfreund!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-30-2005, 07:20 AM	#3
ScotyH Bimmer me up 19 Rep 340 Posts Drives: 08 M3, 2010 GTR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Edmonton,AB iTrader: (0)	Thanks Tierfreund, I thought you'd be the one to reply. As for the speaker replacement, I will be replacing all of the speakers in the car with some pretty high end stuff and running them with a crapload of power. I'll be adding a 12" sub for low bass(that'll go in the trunk storage well). There is also time alignment in my audio systems future for razor sharp imaging. Probably around 1500 watts RMS output from the amps. I'll seldom use full power but it will ensure clarity and dynamic range at just about any volume.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-30-2005, 07:33 AM	#4
Tierfreund Major 21 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: E90 330i Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	I´ve gone a similar route. I´m running a Becker headunit and an Alpine PXA-H600 DSP for full time allignment. Full active setup with 2 Genesis Stereo 100 (2 Subs and 2 mids front) and a Stereo 60 for the front tweater. Also a tiny Sony XM-2020 für the factory rears as rearfills (veryvery little of it as to not spoil the front staging) As for front speakers, I´ve fit a Polk MM3000 tweater (the legendary old thing) in the factory location at the front window plus a set of Göhrlich 4 inchers (they´re excellent and a bit deep, so I know a deep speaker will fit in the door) Trouble with going full active on the front speaker is that you have to run additional speaker wires in the front doors since the factory setup only has one speaker line going in the door. With there being a plug between the door and the body, that´s not easy. I´ve ended up getting plug and socket components from BMW and rewiring the door plug. Quite a bit of work. But with a fully active setup and the full time allignment and full 31 channel G-EQ for EACH channel on the Alpine DSP you really can work magic. Only throuble is not to get lost in the many opportunities of the DSP. Btw. as for subs, I´m actually still running the factory 6inch seat subs. It´s amazing what they´ll do when properly fed with some serious power and a good EQ. You have far less loss from that position than coming from the trunk. I´m thinking about upgrading to the Logic 7 10inch subs for under the seats nevertheless. I think the underseat subs are a great invention. Not only for the trunk space you save but mostly for the great acoustics they provide. And they don´t spoil the front staging as trunk subs often do. Glad to hear you´re going for time allingment. Apart from a Dolby Pro Logic setup it´s the only way to get a decent staging and imaging. Your plans sound good. I wish I could listen in when you´re ready. __________________ No, not THAT kind of tierfreund!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-30-2005, 08:54 AM	#5
ScotyH Bimmer me up 19 Rep 340 Posts Drives: 08 M3, 2010 GTR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Edmonton,AB iTrader: (0)	Finally!!! Someone that knows what quality car audio is all about. I too will go full active on the crossovers. What did you use to make your headunit fit into the factory location? Did you get an interface to make the steering wheel controls function with your headunit. Any idea what kind of air volume is in the underseat sub enclosres? I was thinking of running a mid bass speaker in there, probably from 60- 200 Hz.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-30-2005, 09:29 AM	#6
Tierfreund Major 21 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: E90 330i Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	I used a bracket from the orignal BMW Indianapolis RadioNavigation retrofit kit. It´s expensive, but other than the aftermarket solutions, it has the radio flush and in the middle of the dash. You can find pictures of it here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=true+terra I also have a CAN-Bus adaptor for the steering wheel functions. That works just fine. As for the subs under the seat, I don´t know the exact volume of the enclosure. It´s a relatively complex enclosure that also uses the volume in the sills. As for fitting different speakers in there, that might be difficult. I haven´t had my seats out yet (btw. If and when you do, take the seats out at some point, do not reuse the bolts. They are lengthening bolts that are for one-time use only. You need new bolts and have to torque them to an exact 44nm or you´ll risk the crash safety), so I can´t tell how deep the chassis can be. But my guess would be (from the pictures I have seen), not very. Besides, in a fully active setup with a (digital) active crossover, you can run the door speakers down to relatively low hertzes. I´m running mine down to 100Hz and then cut them off with 24db/Oct. Gives very precise Kickbass. You might get some rattling from the door, but that´s easily fixed with a little dynamat. The E90 door is relatively solid. Just a little reinforcement on the door panel perhaps. Personally I like to go with as few chassis as possible. Less chassis, less problems. I have an friend from the sound-off days (yes, I used to run around in that circus, competing and judging) who works at Alpine Europe nowadays and builds their demo cars. He´s done quite a few E60 with the underseat sub setup and he told me, if he hadn´t HAD to put some subs in the trunk for show and marketing purposes, he would have left the underseat subs just the way they are. He admitted (and he´s the one of the two best installers I know), that it´s virtually impoosible to retrofit a better sub-system than the underseat subs. And that´s with the resources of a company like Alpine. A trunk setup will be able to play louder and harder, but not actually better than (the Logic7 version of ) the underseat subs. So unless your into db drag, give the factory subs a try. Having a 330 means you have the Logic 7 subs. Just hook them up to a decent amp and Eq, and I´m sure you´ll be amazed what they can do. Plus you can then use the storage compartment in the trunk for your amps/DSP etc. Only disadvantage: No show-off component. And if you don´t like the way it sounds, you can still fit a big sub in the trunk later. There´s no harm in trying the factory subs first. Don´t be fooled by how they sound with the factory amp and EQ. They can do a lot more. __________________ No, not THAT kind of tierfreund!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-30-2005, 10:42 AM	#7
ScotyH Bimmer me up 19 Rep 340 Posts Drives: 08 M3, 2010 GTR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Edmonton,AB iTrader: (0)	Do you remember the manufacturer of the CAN-bus adaptor that you used. Was it PAC ? In regards to keeping the system simple, I agree. The best sounding systems that I have had in the past use few speakers. I just thought that even a premium aftermarket 4" wouldn't give me what I want. However with your given input, I wil try using the factory woofers. I don't have Logic7, my headunit has "Professional" stamped on it. I was told that they were 8" woofers. Does that sound right?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-30-2005, 12:02 PM	#8
helderbarata New Member 0 Rep 18 Posts Drives: E90 320D Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Spain iTrader: (0)	See this in http://bmwfaq.com/showthread.php?t=88824, is in spanish but you have photos. Look our forum its very good, we have ideas to put everything in our car, mirror with garage door open, exhaust instalation,etc
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-10-2007, 02:51 AM	#11
Shamu Private 3 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2007 AW E92 335 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (1)	Hello, I'm thinking of upgrading the stock hi-fi system in the e92, and given your experience and expertise in this area, was hoping you can provide some direction to the following. I believe my first step will be to just upgrade the stock speakers without messing with the stock HU and/or amp... 1. do you know the max depth of new speakers i can go for both the fronts and rears? 2. i'm assuming the stock amp powers all the speakers in the car, do you know the rms stats on the stock amp, and if the delivery range from the amp is adjustable? i ask this because my second step is to add a mono or bridge 2-way amp and a sub to handle all the low-end freqs...so in my mind, i'm sending the higher-range to the front and rear speakers, mid-range to the "stock subs" under the seats, and low-end to an aftermarket sub powered by a separate aftermarket amp...would you advise against this setup? I'm sorry if I'm not using the correct terminology but am very new to this, so any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much for any info you can provide! PS -- my goal in this upgrade is nothing dramatic, but an overall tangible improvement in both the quality and "oomph" of the sound in the car.
	Appreciate 0 Quote