335d Ownership Strategy

daveN007 · 11-04-2013, 01:23 PM

I am convinced that the US spec 335d has a design feature (flaw).

When driven normally, carbon builds up within 50 to 60k miles to a point that it makes the car un-driveable.

I believe that this is a result of recirculating exhaust gasses through the intake system for emissions purposes.

I believe that the X5 version of the car has fewer problems, because the heavier vehicle requires that the engine be under a heavier load more often...which might help "blow out the carbon".

I also believe that the 328d will have it's engine under a heavier load, on average, and is less likely to have same issues.

I think BMW knows this to be true.

535d might also be OK because heavier car generates more engine load. (setting aside any redesign)

I don't think that a reasonable answer is that I "drive it like I stole it" of that I "clean out the intake with my right foot".

We bought these cars for the combination of power and efficiency that they promised. It should not die after 50,000 miles of gentle driving. (I am at WOT at least once every drive, FWIW)

CLEANING THE ENGINE TO REMOVE CARBON DEPOSITS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A STANDARD MAINTENANCE PROCEDURE.

This is about $5000.

Personally, I will be laying the groundwork for having BMW pay for this required maintenance while my car is under the factor 4/50 warranty...and/or under the extended 100k prepaid maintenance plan I purchased.

This is no different than BMW paying to replace a clogged air filter under warranty.

The bottom line is that the 335d has too much power for it's size. Sounds like a great idea, but an unloaded diesel + emissions controls = disaster waiting to happen. I love this car, but the premium you pay + $5000 every 50k miles for cleaning (minimum)...not including replacement injectors (another $5k?)

Thoughts?

BB_cuda · 11-04-2013, 02:26 PM

I can't argue about the lightly loaded 3800 lb with 6 cylinder powerplant part. I think ther eis a little more to the X5 story. Along with it being 5000 lbs there are two other factors. Since it is a SUV, it has a numerically higher differential ratio so it runs higher RPM for the same given highway speed. Other point is that since X5 has low and high pressure EGR, less soot is entering into the intake. The $5000 price seems high unless the head is removed and chemically cleaned. Seems to me that cleaning should be worked out along the same lines as the gasoline N54. The N54 is normally dealt with w/o head removal.

Got_Diesel · 11-04-2013, 03:38 PM

50k miles on my d. Drove her hard from day 1. Cruise at high speeds on the highway. WOT highway merges and never had a carbon build up issues. No tunes either. I have had fuel injector troubles though. I'm loving the car just as much today as i did three years ago.

Timujin · 11-04-2013, 05:58 PM

Disappointed in the reliability of some Ds here on the forum. I am coming up on 31k miles and concerned with wth is going to happen. I've been looking at other manufacturers websites, but all other cars suck compared to the D. I am planning a pre 50k mile exit strategy with the D because I don't want to pay out of pocket for anything with this car knowing it's going to clog itself up. Until then I will do regular Italian tune ups by going to Vegas and climbing some grades in 3rd and 4th gear to get things nice and hot.

If I got a bill for $5k from the dealer I would never pick the car up.

F32Fleet · 11-05-2013, 06:40 AM

I think you're spot on but you can't blow out the carbon buildup at the intake. You can however increase the velocity at which soot from EGR and oil mist (from turbos) move through the intake by driving at higher engine speeds (hwy). No doubt that diesels get hotter more complete combustion when under load.

I agree BMW could've made this a maintenance item, but they haven't with their direct injection gassers so I'm not surprised.

A product such as BG diesel intake service or Lubro-Moly Pro Line Diesel Intake Cleaner every 2nd OCI may be the ticket.

Hell there's a Mercedes Benz dealership in my area which does the BG service.

Pierre Louis · 11-05-2013, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socom

I think you're spot on but you can't blow out the carbon buildup at the intake. You can however increase the velocity at which soot from EGR and oil mist (from turbos) move through the intake by driving at higher engine speeds (hwy). No doubt that diesels get hotter more complete combustion when under load.

I agree BMW could've made this a maintenance item, but they haven't with their direct injection gassers so I'm not surprised.

A product such as BG diesel intake service or Lubro-Moly Pro Line Diesel Intake Cleaner every 2nd OCI may be the ticket.

Hell there's a Mercedes Benz dealership in my area which does the BG service.

Gee, it would be good to know which Mercedes dealer it is and find out if they do it to newer diesels.

AzureHaze · 11-05-2013, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timujin

I am planning a pre 50k mile exit strategy with the D because I don't want to pay out of pocket for anything with this car knowing it's going to clog itself up.

Why not think about getting an extended warranty? If they end up replacing your DDE, think you'll be fine. After the warranty, you can finally get rid of the DPF system for some power gains but then again, you'd have to worry about passing the smog test.

Timujin · 11-05-2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzureHaze

Why not think about getting an extended warranty? If they end up replacing your DDE, think you'll be fine. After the warranty, you can finally get rid of the DPF system for some power gains but then again, you'd have to worry about passing the smog test.

So much faith in this option. I don't know if I trust it.

I'd rather BMW do the right thing and step up with a cure. That probably won't happen though. Sheet.

Purplehayes · 11-09-2013, 12:28 PM

I just bought my 335d a couple months ago as a CPO with 31k miles. I'm a little taken aback by the soot buildup issue that seems pretty common given the amount of talk it gets here. I want to think about all the ways to mitigate this from happening but I don't feel it is on me to do this. The car has it's manufacture warranty as well as the 100k extended which is an obvious must have with this car. I will keep on enjoying the car and let BMW worry about it. I would hope they do the right thing and come up with a long term fix to this. It can't be that hard.

Twilight1 · 11-09-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purplehayes

I just bought my 335d a couple months ago as a CPO with 31k miles. I'm a little taken aback by the soot buildup issue that seems pretty common given the amount of talk it gets here. I want to think about all the ways to mitigate this from happening but I don't feel it is on me to do this. The car has it's manufacture warranty as well as the 100k extended which is an obvious must have with this car. I will keep on enjoying the car and let BMW worry about it. I would hope they do the right thing and come up with a long term fix to this. It can't be that hard.

I was told soot or carbon buildup is not covered under the extended warranty.

135i_vs_ · 11-09-2013, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight1

I was told soot or carbon buildup is not covered under the extended warranty.

If you get an SES light, BMW has to do whatever it takes under the CPO warranty to fix it, even if it is due to build up, DDE, etc.

JohnMac · 11-20-2013, 08:47 AM

I am one month into a 2011 CPO 335d purchased with 40,255 miles. The SES light came on a few weeks after purchase and then went off. I took my car in for snows and service said they would still check out the car since the SES was on....

Excessive carbon buildup - they were advised by BMW engineers to remove the cylinder head and take it to a machine shop where it would be "dipped" into scalding hot water to remove the carbon. Intake valves need to be replaced as well.....

I've read multiple posts/threads on this. Sounds like CPO coverage may or may not cover this - and most importantly it has to be a consequence of some other issue in the car. This service department claims his is their first diesel?!?

I really love the way this car drives but I'm very concerned at this point AND I haven't even made my first payment! Looking for advice on whether to try to bail on this whole diesel venture and go back to the dealer trying to negotiate another CPO or sticking this out.

Thoughts?

dixy2k · 11-20-2013, 09:05 AM

Mine has been in the shop for a month already.

The new ones will actually be worst due to the use of the 8 speed transmission.
I've been driving a loaner from the dealer (gasser) which has the new transmission. It likes to rev very low under normal driving conditions. And again this is not a diesel. Most of the time I seems under rev'd.

So the problems will continue with the 328d and 535d.
At the present time there is no cure, or if you like the brand then stay with the gasoline engines. Emission standards will get more restrictive in the future. Not a good thing for diesels.

Mark M · 11-20-2013, 09:26 AM

I echo Dixy2k's statement. Mine has also been in the shop for 4 weeks now awaiting a new cylinder head and other ancillary parts from Germany which are on back order. Sorry to hear about your situation only within the first month of ownership. Mine, I've only owned 4.5 months.

dixy2k · 11-20-2013, 09:45 AM

2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern.
Really dissapointed in the brand and more specifically the model.

Puerto Rican 335d · 11-20-2013, 10:51 AM

Amigos i tried to be as neutral as possible in most forums. But Im speaking on my own behalf so SPARE me ok!! I drove my 02 MCS like a 2 cent whore for approx. 9 yrs and NEVER gave issue w carbon Build up, our cars due to EPA/CARB regs have been a culprit of issues ranging from EGR/NOX sensors to the worst engine rebuilt and heads replaced due to the SOOT it creates, therefore, in my case my ONLY option is to remove the DPF like I say I try to be neutral but mother nature AINT going to pay my bills and I guess its going to have to kisss my ass on this.

335dFan · 11-20-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

Amigos i tried to be as neutral as possible in most forums. But Im speaking on my own behalf so SPARE me ok!! I drove my 02 MCS like a 2 cent whore for approx. 9 yrs and NEVER gave issue w carbon Build up, our cars due to EPA/CARB regs have been a culprit of issues ranging from EGR/NOX sensors to the worst engine rebuilt and heads replaced due to the SOOT it creates, therefore, in my case my ONLY option is to remove the DPF like I say I try to be neutral but mother nature AINT going to pay my bills and I guess its going to have to kisss my ass on this.

I'm just guessing that Mother Nature is going to have the last laugh on all us humanoids.

Puerto Rican 335d · 11-20-2013, 11:15 AM

very true amigo 335dFan LOL

taibanl · 11-20-2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

Amigos i tried to be as neutral as possible in most forums. But Im speaking on my own behalf so SPARE me ok!! I drove my 02 MCS like a 2 cent whore for approx. 9 yrs and NEVER gave issue w carbon Build up, our cars due to EPA/CARB regs have been a culprit of issues ranging from EGR/NOX sensors to the worst engine rebuilt and heads replaced due to the SOOT it creates, therefore, in my case my ONLY option is to remove the DPF like I say I try to be neutral but mother nature AINT going to pay my bills and I guess its going to have to kisss my ass on this.

I don't see how the DPF which is way downstream of any of the affected components would have any effect at all. It sounds like you're willing to just start experimenting with your vehicle with the hopes of solving a problem. In that case though, the area that you're going after doesn't seem to have any relation to the problems experienced

mact3333 · 11-20-2013, 01:30 PM

I agree with the OP completely...but if you guys had to guess, what % of our 335D's will have carbon buildup issues???...5%?...10%...30%.

Just trying get get perspective here. I will have severe issues with my dealer if I get carbon issues and my CPO does not cover it cause I wouldn't buy this car unless I felt it was covered by warranty.

Jhayd11 · 11-20-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mact3333

I agree with the OP completely...but if you guys had to guess, what % of our 335D's will have carbon buildup issues???...5%?...10%...30%.

Just trying get get perspective here. I will have severe issues with my dealer if I get carbon issues and my CPO does not cover it cause I wouldn't buy this car unless I felt it was covered by warranty.

It is covered under CPO. It is not covered by a lot of outside warranties.

koreez88 · 11-20-2013, 03:59 PM

62k, SES came on once, at roughly 25k... Everything ok since then.

11-04-2013, 01:23 PM	#1
daveN007 Private First Class 5 Rep 106 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Northern California iTrader: (0)	335d Ownership Strategy I am convinced that the US spec 335d has a design feature (flaw). When driven normally, carbon builds up within 50 to 60k miles to a point that it makes the car un-driveable. I believe that this is a result of recirculating exhaust gasses through the intake system for emissions purposes. I believe that the X5 version of the car has fewer problems, because the heavier vehicle requires that the engine be under a heavier load more often...which might help "blow out the carbon". I also believe that the 328d will have it's engine under a heavier load, on average, and is less likely to have same issues. I think BMW knows this to be true. 535d might also be OK because heavier car generates more engine load. (setting aside any redesign) I don't think that a reasonable answer is that I "drive it like I stole it" of that I "clean out the intake with my right foot". We bought these cars for the combination of power and efficiency that they promised. It should not die after 50,000 miles of gentle driving. (I am at WOT at least once every drive, FWIW) CLEANING THE ENGINE TO REMOVE CARBON DEPOSITS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A STANDARD MAINTENANCE PROCEDURE. This is about $5000. Personally, I will be laying the groundwork for having BMW pay for this required maintenance while my car is under the factor 4/50 warranty...and/or under the extended 100k prepaid maintenance plan I purchased. This is no different than BMW paying to replace a clogged air filter under warranty. The bottom line is that the 335d has too much power for it's size. Sounds like a great idea, but an unloaded diesel + emissions controls = disaster waiting to happen. I love this car, but the premium you pay + $5000 every 50k miles for cleaning (minimum)...not including replacement injectors (another $5k?) Thoughts? __________________ Alpine White 2011 335d M Sport * Premium * Cold Weather * Harmon-Kardon Carrara White 2012 Porsche Cayman R
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11-04-2013, 02:26 PM	#2
BB_cuda Brigadier General 765 Rep 3,556 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	I can't argue about the lightly loaded 3800 lb with 6 cylinder powerplant part. I think ther eis a little more to the X5 story. Along with it being 5000 lbs there are two other factors. Since it is a SUV, it has a numerically higher differential ratio so it runs higher RPM for the same given highway speed. Other point is that since X5 has low and high pressure EGR, less soot is entering into the intake. The $5000 price seems high unless the head is removed and chemically cleaned. Seems to me that cleaning should be worked out along the same lines as the gasoline N54. The N54 is normally dealt with w/o head removal.
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11-04-2013, 03:38 PM	#3
Got_Diesel Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 298 Posts Drives: 335d Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	50k miles on my d. Drove her hard from day 1. Cruise at high speeds on the highway. WOT highway merges and never had a carbon build up issues. No tunes either. I have had fuel injector troubles though. I'm loving the car just as much today as i did three years ago.
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11-04-2013, 05:58 PM	#4
Timujin Major 353 Rep 1,005 Posts Drives: GMC Sierra Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California iTrader: (9) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [0.00]	Disappointed in the reliability of some Ds here on the forum. I am coming up on 31k miles and concerned with wth is going to happen. I've been looking at other manufacturers websites, but all other cars suck compared to the D. I am planning a pre 50k mile exit strategy with the D because I don't want to pay out of pocket for anything with this car knowing it's going to clog itself up. Until then I will do regular Italian tune ups by going to Vegas and climbing some grades in 3rd and 4th gear to get things nice and hot. If I got a bill for $5k from the dealer I would never pick the car up. __________________ We grow food to feed the animals so we can eat the animals Last edited by Timujin; 11-04-2013 at 08:45 PM..
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11-05-2013, 06:40 AM	#5
F32Fleet Lieutenant General 3570 Rep 10,352 Posts Drives: 2015 435i Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southeastern US iTrader: (0)	I think you're spot on but you can't blow out the carbon buildup at the intake. You can however increase the velocity at which soot from EGR and oil mist (from turbos) move through the intake by driving at higher engine speeds (hwy). No doubt that diesels get hotter more complete combustion when under load. I agree BMW could've made this a maintenance item, but they haven't with their direct injection gassers so I'm not surprised. A product such as BG diesel intake service or Lubro-Moly Pro Line Diesel Intake Cleaner every 2nd OCI may be the ticket. Hell there's a Mercedes Benz dealership in my area which does the BG service.
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11-09-2013, 12:28 PM	#9
Purplehayes New Member 1 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Portland OR iTrader: (0)	I just bought my 335d a couple months ago as a CPO with 31k miles. I'm a little taken aback by the soot buildup issue that seems pretty common given the amount of talk it gets here. I want to think about all the ways to mitigate this from happening but I don't feel it is on me to do this. The car has it's manufacture warranty as well as the 100k extended which is an obvious must have with this car. I will keep on enjoying the car and let BMW worry about it. I would hope they do the right thing and come up with a long term fix to this. It can't be that hard.
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11-20-2013, 08:47 AM	#12
JohnMac Registered 0 Rep 4 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Cleveland, OH iTrader: (0)	I am one month into a 2011 CPO 335d purchased with 40,255 miles. The SES light came on a few weeks after purchase and then went off. I took my car in for snows and service said they would still check out the car since the SES was on.... Excessive carbon buildup - they were advised by BMW engineers to remove the cylinder head and take it to a machine shop where it would be "dipped" into scalding hot water to remove the carbon. Intake valves need to be replaced as well..... I've read multiple posts/threads on this. Sounds like CPO coverage may or may not cover this - and most importantly it has to be a consequence of some other issue in the car. This service department claims his is their first diesel?!? I really love the way this car drives but I'm very concerned at this point AND I haven't even made my first payment! Looking for advice on whether to try to bail on this whole diesel venture and go back to the dealer trying to negotiate another CPO or sticking this out. Thoughts?
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11-20-2013, 09:05 AM	#13
dixy2k Major 88 Rep 1,152 Posts Drives: 335d Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Mine has been in the shop for a month already. The new ones will actually be worst due to the use of the 8 speed transmission. I've been driving a loaner from the dealer (gasser) which has the new transmission. It likes to rev very low under normal driving conditions. And again this is not a diesel. Most of the time I seems under rev'd. So the problems will continue with the 328d and 535d. At the present time there is no cure, or if you like the brand then stay with the gasoline engines. Emission standards will get more restrictive in the future. Not a good thing for diesels.
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11-20-2013, 09:26 AM	#14
Mark M Major 240 Rep 1,288 Posts Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA iTrader: (0)	I echo Dixy2k's statement. Mine has also been in the shop for 4 weeks now awaiting a new cylinder head and other ancillary parts from Germany which are on back order. Sorry to hear about your situation only within the first month of ownership. Mine, I've only owned 4.5 months.
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11-20-2013, 09:45 AM	#15
dixy2k Major 88 Rep 1,152 Posts Drives: 335d Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern. Really dissapointed in the brand and more specifically the model.
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11-20-2013, 10:51 AM	#16
Puerto Rican 335d Brigadier General 229 Rep 3,489 Posts Drives: Montego Blue 335d Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Puerto Rico(Dominican Republic 03/2017) iTrader: (0)	Amigos i tried to be as neutral as possible in most forums. But Im speaking on my own behalf so SPARE me ok!! I drove my 02 MCS like a 2 cent whore for approx. 9 yrs and NEVER gave issue w carbon Build up, our cars due to EPA/CARB regs have been a culprit of issues ranging from EGR/NOX sensors to the worst engine rebuilt and heads replaced due to the SOOT it creates, therefore, in my case my ONLY option is to remove the DPF like I say I try to be neutral but mother nature AINT going to pay my bills and I guess its going to have to kisss my ass on this. __________________ RENNtech Flash(Lenny Wu)/WAGNER IC Enkei Rajin 18"/Execuhitch Hitch/Koni FSD Soft Ride Bike Rack/Brava Synthetic Motor Oil(Made in Puerto Rico)/Meth(in the works)/CBU done w Andrew EGR Race Pipe (whoa! what an animal it is now)
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11-20-2013, 11:15 AM	#18
Puerto Rican 335d Brigadier General 229 Rep 3,489 Posts Drives: Montego Blue 335d Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Puerto Rico(Dominican Republic 03/2017) iTrader: (0)	very true amigo 335dFan LOL __________________ RENNtech Flash(Lenny Wu)/WAGNER IC Enkei Rajin 18"/Execuhitch Hitch/Koni FSD Soft Ride Bike Rack/Brava Synthetic Motor Oil(Made in Puerto Rico)/Meth(in the works)/CBU done w Andrew EGR Race Pipe (whoa! what an animal it is now)
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11-20-2013, 01:30 PM	#20
mact3333 Captain 121 Rep 876 Posts Drives: 16' YMB/Blk F82 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Portland Area iTrader: (1)	I agree with the OP completely...but if you guys had to guess, what % of our 335D's will have carbon buildup issues???...5%?...10%...30%. Just trying get get perspective here. I will have severe issues with my dealer if I get carbon issues and my CPO does not cover it cause I wouldn't buy this car unless I felt it was covered by warranty.
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11-20-2013, 03:59 PM	#22
koreez88 Всем привет ;) 146 Rep 3,358 Posts Drives: Tesla Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (12)	62k, SES came on once, at roughly 25k... Everything ok since then.
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