[Chromey]

Hi guys I'm looking to do meth this week , sounded wrong lol. I meant get w meth kit this week but noticed all places sell the trunk kit... I'll have to email the guys but wanted to know is it because there was a issue? I like the ease of the install and removal... How long does the trunk kits take if you go under the car.. I heard through the car is time consuming. I'll be paying my shop by the hour. Thanks for any input.

[Whiteout335i]

From my research the trunk set up is safer. I'm pretty sure bms has always had the trunk one tho

[TheYuriPanda]

Waste of money if you pay a shop. Its super easy trust me. Im 17 and did it lol. routing it through the interior is safer, dont have to worry about weather damaging it. Trunk setup is safer and wouldnt be much harder to install.

[Chromey]

Cheers guys, never thought of the safety side of it... Any reason the ww kit would be unsafe?

[Tzu]

Originally Posted by Chromey

Cheers guys, never thought of the safety side of it... Any reason the ww kit would be unsafe?

A few cars have caught on fire, both using meth and WW fluid with meth as an active ingredient.

[ajsalida]

The problem is the ww tank is not very robust, cracks/leaks with age. Its location and typical leaky spots mean the fluid will pool in places, like on top of the undertray right beneath the turbos/downpipes, and then eventually catch fire.

This is a good DIY for trunk mount + lines inside interior

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26208

I originally wanted to go under the car but it is actually harder, more drilling and messing around, and as pointed out, exposes lines to weather and engine heat depending on how you route it in front. The tubing is pretty stout hard plastic and should not ever leak unless you mess up and damage it during install. Far more likely to leak at fittings, which if you do it right none are anywhere near the interior, should be one single length of tubing from the trunk tank to the filter near the firewall inside the engine bay.

Somebody did have a scary situation recently where they routed the lines though the interior in this manner and it leaked a large amount of meth under the carpet. Very lucky he did not roast himself. Turns out the guy used rubber fuel hose which is not rated for this and/or did something else and it leaked. In any case it was a non standard installation that did not use correct tubing.

[tke344]

It depends on the concentration you want to run, -20 deg washer fluid is ~30% methanol and it's non-flammable, supposedly anything less than 50% won't burn but I'd probably stay around 40% to be safe.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

The WW kits were discontinued as people would not listen to the instructions and run 100% or close to that, while the recommended amount was no more the a 50/50 meth/water mix. There were a few engine fires as a result. Trunk kits allow you to run up to 100% methanol if so desired.

As stated the WW tank is not the most robust so it required some maintenance and ongoing observation to ensure everything was safe. With the trunk kits you can buy tanks that are specifically made for meth and are much more robust.

Mike

[Chromey]

Brilliant all makes sense... I'll take a look at the trunk install and go from there. I'm assuming by discontinued that you don't have any Mike? As I was only planning on running blue windshield fluid not 100% meth...

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Chromey

Brilliant all makes sense... I'll take a look at the trunk install and go from there. I'm assuming by discontinued that you don't have any Mike? As I was only planning on running blue windshield fluid not 100% meth...

I'm gunna be straightforward here to protect your car: Do not run WW meth. It's discontinued for good reason, and someone offered it to me for free i'd politely turn it down.

It's not safe under any circumstances. Get a trunk mounted tank and go from there, be mindful of the type of fittings you use, the type of line you use, how you route it, and how you plan to integrate some type of failsafe. People are cavalier w meth on this platform, I presume because it's an easy way to add fuel support. Doesn't make it safe or prudent.

If you want to spray meth, do so to manage IATs and for octane headroom. Tuning off meth as your source of octane and fuel will lead to a bad time.

[ajsalida]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

I'm gunna be straightforward here to protect your car: Do not run WW meth. It's discontinued for good reason, and someone offered it to me for free i'd politely turn it down.

It's not safe under any circumstances. Get a trunk mounted tank and go from there, be mindful of the type of fittings you use, the type of line you use, how you route it, and how you plan to integrate some type of failsafe. People are cavalier w meth on this platform, I presume because it's an easy way to add fuel support. Doesn't make it safe or prudent.

If you want to spray meth, do so to manage IATs and for octane headroom. Tuning off meth as your source of octane and fuel will lead to a bad time.

+1 on all of this, well said.

I am only running meth (50/50) because locally no e85 available and the best pump fuel is spotty quality 91 octane. That plus high altitude and lots of steep grades the meth is for octane margin of error and lower IAT's.

[ferocity02]

I would run the lines underneath the car along with the fuel lines. Running them inside the cabin along the drivers side (as most people do) could be bad news if you were to get T-boned and the line gets cut.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

I would run the lines underneath the car along with the fuel lines. Running them inside the cabin along the drivers side (as most people do) could be bad news if you were to get T-boned and the line gets cut.

+1

[ajsalida]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

I would run the lines underneath the car along with the fuel lines. Running them inside the cabin along the drivers side (as most people do) could be bad news if you were to get T-boned and the line gets cut.

I thought about that scenario and others, and planned to do it that way. Got under the car on jack stands and looked at how to do it properly and it is not that simple. You have to drill holes in the trunk, take tons of shit off underneath to get to fuel lines, routing the hard pipe around things is not easy as it is not very flexible, not like rubber fuel line, which is how they route fuel lines around thigns, then go to the harder pipe for straight sections. I spent 1-2 hrs just looking it all over and said screw it, goes inside.

It would take an enormous hit to rupture that line, it sits behind/inside the main rocker structure drivers side which is pretty stout, not to mention meth does not flow unless the pump is running and the pump does not run unless WOT.

In principle you could also run it one side or the other of the tranny tunnel under carpet, I looked at that too and it is vastly more invasive than along the rocker as far as install.

Also I had just got done routing a IBUS CD changer cable on an e36 M3 from behind the radio to the trunk via the tranny tunnel-carpet gap, man that was an all day job. Pulling both seats carpet etc etc no way I was taking apart my e92 that much for meth lines.

[ferocity02]

Originally Posted by ajsalida

I thought about that scenario and others, and planned to do it that way. Got under the car on jack stands and looked at how to do it properly and it is not that simple. You have to drill holes in the trunk, take tons of shit off underneath to get to fuel lines, routing the hard pipe around things is not easy as it is not very flexible, not like rubber fuel line, which is how they route fuel lines around thigns, then go to the harder pipe for straight sections. I spent 1-2 hrs just looking it all over and said screw it, goes inside.

It would take an enormous hit to rupture that line, it sits behind/inside the main rocker structure drivers side which is pretty stout, not to mention meth does not flow unless the pump is running and the pump does not run unless WOT.

In principle you could also run it one side or the other of the tranny tunnel under carpet, I looked at that too and it is vastly more invasive than along the rocker as far as install.

Also I had just got done routing a IBUS CD changer cable on an e36 M3 from behind the radio to the trunk via the tranny tunnel-carpet gap, man that was an all day job. Pulling both seats carpet etc etc no way I was taking apart my e92 that much for meth lines.

I did not realize it would be that difficult to route them with the fuel lines. I might come to the same conclusion when I get around to it.

On another note, even when the pump isn't running the line from the tank to the nozzles is still usually pressurized to some degree. Also, if the tank is mounted above where the line is cut, then it may stream out continuously when cut. Small chance of this happening, I agree. If I were running it inside I'd feel better about using some stainless braided line instead, probably -3 or -4, whatever is equivalent with the line that comes in meth kits these days.

[CHECKERED]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

If you want to spray meth, do so to manage IATs and for octane headroom. Tuning off meth as your source of octane and fuel will lead to a bad time.

I somewhat disagree, meth for octane is good and safe, meth for fuel is bad news, also Meth + flash only based tune is bad news in general.

Sudden lack of meth (that’s used for Fuel, say when running poor man's race gas (ethanol)) means lean condition and pre-ignition = instant motor loss
Sudden low octane conditions just means some knock that DME compensate instantaneously with less timing, no damage to the motor

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by CHECKERED

I somewhat disagree, meth for octane is good and safe, meth for fuel is bad news, also Meth + flash only based tune is bad news in general.

Sudden lack of meth (that’s used for Fuel, say when running poor’s man’s race gas (ethanol)) means lean condition and pre-ignition = instant motor loss
Sudden low octane conditions just means some knock and less timing that the DME compensate instantaneously, no damage to the motor

We'll meet in the middle. Meth for octane is OK if you really understand the risks involved, log diligently, have a high quality kit, failsafe, etc. To your point, if meth flow were to cut out your effective octane suddenly falls off a cliff. The DME will yank global timing but it's still a razor's edge that i'd rather not walk. Especially with how aggressively folks are pushing advance at this point.

When I was spraying, I tried hard not to adjust boost or advance targets, and tuned for meth solely as IAT compensation. Honestly (and this is 100% just my opinion), i've found meth to be more of a hassle than it's worth.

[Chromey]

Wow lots of good Info here to digest.. Now I'm thinkng IT is way to much hassle for what I wanted. I just wanted it to make up for our shitty fuel for safety to the engine and to give me that power boost that makes the car as fast as it can be before major $$$ new turbos , better tranny etc. I'm starting to think I'll sell the jb4 skip meth and put my cobb v3 back in and get a e tune Based on our so called cheveron 94 gas which is garbage. Thank you everyone for taking the time to chime in.. To be honest I'm happy with map 2 jb4 just not sure if my car is happy. Lol that's a lie I want more power.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I think people are making it more complicated then it really is.

Methanol Injection is a tank, pump, lines, nozzle(s) and any electronics or triggers. It's pretty basic once you take a step back.

The biggest concern in this thread should be the fact that there is a reason the WW kits were discontinued, they were a fire hazard, even at 50/50 meth concentration.

The safer option is a trunk mount. Running lines under the car is really not hard at all, took me about 15 minutes. I personally rather keep any fuel (methanol) outside of the vehicle). The idea is to simply route the lines in a safe location away from the exhaust and suspension. There are already several lines under the car like the brake lines which you could follow and zip tie too. I didn't really find running methanol in the car any easier nor did I like the fact that it could potentially leak in the car or lines could be kinked. I also don't like taking apart my interior for the simple fact that I tend to break things, haha.

I don't want to get into a tune debate on going with Cobb or Jb4 but you can theoretically run methanol on either. Remember, methanol kits are universal in nature it's just a means to spray methanol from the tank to the nozzle. Once you look at it like that it's pretty easy and straight forward.

[robc1976]

Stainless -AN line no exceptions

[Chromey]

Thanks Jeff puts me at ease. with so many running meth i didnt think it was as complicated as it got in this thread...