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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Drone on OEM Performance Exhaust



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      06-07-2012, 09:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulz_M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_curebimmer
My 'is' has same PE exhaust as yours...absolutely love it, no drone whatsoever, even after installing the catless DPs is awesome (sans the rasp...but different topic).

If you go back to the OEM exhaust, you'll soon may find yourself wanting the PE back. Had this issue with my previous '08 E92...
No cure, does your IS have the upgraded BMW PE or just the factory IS exhaust(black tips)? Not sure if you know, but the IS exhaust is not the same, it's about halfway in between stock and the BMW PE.
Lulz - no I didn't know that, from what I read on some threads here I thought the "is" exhaust = PE exhaust...regardless, mine is the regular "is" with the black tips...
Is the PE 1/2 as loud as the is one? What the difference then?

Anyway, won't highjack - OP, hope you get your drone problem fixed! Let us know what another dealer says...
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      06-07-2012, 09:38 PM   #24
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I just installed PE on a e92 335i, and was surprised by the differences compared to PE on my e90 330i. It's not quite as deep or "rumbly", at least not yet after 1000 km. The turbos seem to smooth out the exhaust, I suppose. Still fantastic, well worth it!

Anyway, I'm also getting drone cruising around 2500 rpm in the e92, which is common on the highway. The e90 has zero drone IMO. I'll have to check for leaks at the clamps...but it's surprising that could cause drone. I'm wondering if mounting it slightly differently (tighter, or shifted somehow) could effect the resonance of the system.

Best idea is to compare to someone else at a meet with the same setup

Good excuse to go to a meet
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      06-07-2012, 10:08 PM   #25
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Yeah, I think I'll still have the clamps checked out before I make it stock again.

So it really shouldn't drone at all right?

How is the E90 PE different from the E92?

Anyways, made an appointment for next Tuesday. I hope it goes well, will keep this post updated just in case someone runs into the same at least this can be informative.
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      06-08-2012, 12:44 AM   #26
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e90s have a resonator and upgrading to PE deletes that, so the e90 will have a greater increase in sound as compared to stock.

I installed a PE on my e93 about 3 months ago and have not experienced any drone. As others have already commented, the loud (relatively speaking) start up is normal, but it quiets down after about a minute.

I agree with the general consensus that you either: (1) have a slight leak at the clamps or (2) are just more sensitive to drone. I haven't heard of another exhaust that compares with the PE when it comes to drone, given how mild and tame the PE is vs the aftermarket setups.
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      06-08-2012, 01:04 AM   #27
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Thanks Baysics.

Yeah I think your point number 1 and 2 kind of sums up what I've been thinking.

I am sensitive, but at the same time, I will take it in to another dealer to have it checked out.

So a quick question, where does the potential leak come from? Is it from the clamps and if so how?

Thanks,
John
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      06-08-2012, 02:24 PM   #28
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I don't think this is the exhaust. What you describe is similar to what a few of us noticed to a significantly greater extent when we added M3 rear subframe bushings. One of the guys switched back to standard 3 series bushings and the noise diminished but is still noticeable. My guess is that you are noticing this noise that was there before but because you were listening to your car more you are now more aware of it. See this post
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=32
in this thread
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532595.

I know the thread focuses on the fact that we all had Quaife LSDs installed but it has been determined it is not the LSD but the stiffer bushings that are making the noise you describe more pronounced.

Clearly there is an underlying issue...we would all like to know what it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jyeah View Post
Hi All,

I was wondering if an exhaust drone for the OEM BMW Performance Exhaust on a 2010 335i with Auto Transmission is normal? It was dealer installed, too.

Symptoms compared to stock exhaust (after 3000 miles):
1. >90 dB loud idling (measured with a sound meter) on cold start (even my fiance remarked, "Your car sounds weird."), it does settle down after 2 minutes and sounds a lot quieter after that
2. Audible low frequency droning sound with slight throttle going uphill
3. Audible low frequency droning sound when cruising on highway around 70 MPH when engine is at ~2K-3K RPM with slight throttle applied. The moment I let the throttle go, the sound droning goes away.

Is this normal?
Because I got it originally because people on the forum mentioned there shouldn't be any drones, I am considering of putting my stock exhaust back on and selling the performance part because the droning tone is very annoying. Not like the pleasant note I get from putting down the throttle.
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      06-08-2012, 02:31 PM   #29
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That's an interesting point, but I doubt it's the bushings
since I heard this noise before I upgraded to the BMW OEM performance suspension.

I installed PPK2 and PE at the same time, then I installed the Performance Suspension 2 weeks later.

Also, my friend mentioned hearing the drone without me asking if the sound was noticeable.

I do know that when I pay attention to it, I can hear it more audibly, but also when I don't pay attention to it, I can still notice it.
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      06-08-2012, 02:35 PM   #30
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Understood, but if you did install the M3 bushings the noise would be significantly worse like what we have. I think the cause is the same but it's transmitted more loudly via the stiffer M3 subframe bushes.

I would be interested to know if you can modulate the sound at will like I describe. It sounds from you description that you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyeah View Post
That's an interesting point, but I doubt it's the bushings
since I heard this noise before I upgraded to the BMW OEM performance suspension.

I installed PPK2 and PE at the same time, then I installed the Performance Suspension 2 weeks later.

Also, my friend mentioned hearing the drone without me asking if the sound was noticeable.

I do know that when I pay attention to it, I can hear it more audibly, but also when I don't pay attention to it, I can still notice it.
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      06-08-2012, 02:38 PM   #31
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can you take a video of the drone?
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      06-08-2012, 02:41 PM   #32
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I could try with my phone, but I don't have a good video camcorder of any sort.
I'll do that maybe later tonight when I get off work.

I hope the mic on the phone is good enough to pick up the low frequency tones.
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      06-08-2012, 05:42 PM   #33
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I have a bit more 'noise' from my PE but I wouldnt call it a drone, and certainly not intrusive, although what you describe OP, I do notice. Mostly around 2k rpm specifically, and mostly when cold. Once the engine temps rise and the car has been going 10 minutes then I normally do not hear it as pronounced, which should be typical as the exhaust gets warmer.

Whatever it is, I actually like it, since its not really drone actually more 'noise'. Drone is vibrationy which IMO this is not.
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      06-08-2012, 06:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinTurboXI View Post
As others have mentioned, it's very difficult to mess up installing an axle back exhaust.

Not sure what "reshaping" the dealer could have done, that sounds like BS to me.

Your in LA, find a member with the performance exhaust and take a quick ride with one of them to determine if your drone is normal or not.
+1 that's just what I was thinking
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      06-09-2012, 01:06 AM   #35
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Here are two videos of my attempt to show you guys what the drone is like.
In the first video, I'm actually driving around 60 mph and at the very beginning, the background sound you hear is just the tires going on the road, but 22 seconds in, you'll hear that drone is very pronounced and even a little bit "vibrational" because of its low frequency nature.

In the second video, I'm just at a stop and revving the engine. You can definitely hear the droning sound except for some reason the volume on that clip turned out really silent when I upload it to youtube.
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      06-09-2012, 01:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinTurboXI View Post
As others have mentioned, it's very difficult to mess up installing an axle back exhaust.

Not sure what "reshaping" the dealer could have done, that sounds like BS to me.

Your in LA, find a member with the performance exhaust and take a quick ride with one of them to determine if your drone is normal or not.
I'm actually going to meet up with someone next week to determine whether or not the drone is normal.

But the reshaping is what I got on the receipt from the dealer. It definitely sounded like BS, because it didn't solve anything.
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      06-09-2012, 03:23 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyeah
Thanks Baysics.

Yeah I think your point number 1 and 2 kind of sums up what I've been thinking.

I am sensitive, but at the same time, I will take it in to another dealer to have it checked out.

So a quick question, where does the potential leak come from? Is it from the clamps and if so how?

Thanks,
John
To understand how the leak arises (assuming you are experiencing a leak -- I haven't listened to your video) you need to understand how the PE is fitted to your car.

It's not a bolt on or welded system. Rather, the dealer cut the pipe leading to your OEM mufflers. The new PE muffler was then fitted. Basically, you had the new pipe leading from the PE ending right where the cut to the stock piping was made. The pipe ends have no way of conmecting to eachother. To mate the PE pipe to the OEM piping, the dealer used a slip clamp. This clamp basically covered the gap between the PE piping and OEM piping. Both sides of the clamp were then tightened (one to the PE pipe and the other to the OEM pipe) to make a leak proof seal. If the clamps were not fully tightened, you might have air leaking out.

Here is a simple illustration that might help you understand: You know how little kids sometimes
combine several straws together to make a super long straw? It's a similar principle with the clamps. Assume you are attaching three straws end to end. The middle straw would be akin to the clamp used to fasten your exhaust. If the connection on either end of that middle straw is loose, the liquid would leak out. Similarly, if the seal on either end of your clamp is loose, you would have an exhaust leak. It's not a perfect analogy, but should help you better understand where/how a leak might arise.

Good luck finding the problem and fixing it. The PE system is really fantastic, so I hope you are able to get to the bottom of this and better enjoy the PE!
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      06-09-2012, 08:47 AM   #38
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I had my PE welded, I suggest you do the same since those clamps are prone to leaks.
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      06-09-2012, 09:23 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyeah View Post



Here are two videos of my attempt to show you guys what the drone is like.
In the first video, I'm actually driving around 60 mph and at the very beginning, the background sound you hear is just the tires going on the road, but 22 seconds in, you'll hear that drone is very pronounced and even a little bit "vibrational" because of its low frequency nature.

In the second video, I'm just at a stop and revving the engine. You can definitely hear the droning sound except for some reason the volume on that clip turned out really silent when I upload it to youtube.
Sounds normal to me in the first vid. Your exhaust was cold. Your engine temp was barely even up. The exhaust is noisey when it is cold. Once you reach 230-240 then it will be fine and that noise will go away. As the system ages it will get less and less as well (Ive had mine 2 years). I dont think, from that video, anything is wrong.

That said, you are an AT and I have an MT so maybe it could be something, but 2krpm exactly on with slight throttle (not enough to accel or slow) it does have that noise on mine, but only when the engine temps are down. Have you drove the car for a long period of time to where the exhaust is hot?
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      06-09-2012, 09:42 AM   #40
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Dackz, thanks for your input, the sound doesn't go away even after a long drive. I was driving from Los Angeles to Palm Springs the other day and it sounded like that the whole way. I know what you mean that the exhaust can be more noisy, but even when the engine oil is ~240-250, the droning sound is still very apparent, is that normal? In fact, when I first had the PE installed, I thought to myself that maybe it'll take some time for the exhaust to settle in, but it didn't and the noise level has never gone down.
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      06-09-2012, 09:45 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAYsic View Post
To understand how the leak arises (assuming you are experiencing a leak -- I haven't listened to your video) you need to understand how the PE is fitted to your car.

It's not a bolt on or welded system. Rather, the dealer cut the pipe leading to your OEM mufflers. The new PE muffler was then fitted. Basically, you had the new pipe leading from the PE ending right where the cut to the stock piping was made. The pipe ends have no way of conmecting to eachother. To mate the PE pipe to the OEM piping, the dealer used a slip clamp. This clamp basically covered the gap between the PE piping and OEM piping. Both sides of the clamp were then tightened (one to the PE pipe and the other to the OEM pipe) to make a leak proof seal. If the clamps were not fully tightened, you might have air leaking out.

Here is a simple illustration that might help you understand: You know how little kids sometimes
combine several straws together to make a super long straw? It's a similar principle with the clamps. Assume you are attaching three straws end to end. The middle straw would be akin to the clamp used to fasten your exhaust. If the connection on either end of that middle straw is loose, the liquid would leak out. Similarly, if the seal on either end of your clamp is loose, you would have an exhaust leak. It's not a perfect analogy, but should help you better understand where/how a leak might arise.

Good luck finding the problem and fixing it. The PE system is really fantastic, so I hope you are able to get to the bottom of this and better enjoy the PE!
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
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      06-10-2012, 01:10 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyeah View Post
Dackz, thanks for your input, the sound doesn't go away even after a long drive. I was driving from Los Angeles to Palm Springs the other day and it sounded like that the whole way. I know what you mean that the exhaust can be more noisy, but even when the engine oil is ~240-250, the droning sound is still very apparent, is that normal? In fact, when I first had the PE installed, I thought to myself that maybe it'll take some time for the exhaust to settle in, but it didn't and the noise level has never gone down.
It drones on slight accel only when cold for me. It was slightly worse this way for the first month or two but nothing major, and it slowly went away over time. Are you tuned? Could be wastegate position helping to cause the sound/drone you are getting.
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      06-10-2012, 01:17 AM   #43
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I'm not tuned. The thing about waiting and hoping the exhaust drone goes away after time is that I actually drive friends from time to time and they can also hear the drone. ~_~" Only have PPK Stage 2 installed.

I guess my main concern is:
1) Whether or not the problem is normal, because if it is, I guess I've made up my mind to go back to the stock exhaust.
2) If the problem is not normal, what is the best course of action to get it resolved.

A) Have the PE properly resealed and have the clamps re-tightened
B) If it's a faulty PE exhaust that has problems, have it replaced by BMW.
C) If it's un-fixable, have the stock exhaust reinstalled and sell the PE part.

Last edited by jyeah; 06-10-2012 at 01:24 AM..
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      06-10-2012, 08:14 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd
there shouldn't be any drone, but the exhaust is louder. maybe your more sensitive to the noise?

i have a muffler delete...now thats some drone, but now im use to it.
Hell yeah i love it
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