[dzenno]

Not sure how many of you are aware but a very strange accident happened to a member on n54tech where his intake manifold got punctured most likely because his blow off valve failed to release pressure to the atmosphere on shift or meth self ignited and caused an explosion or maybe both...doesn't look tune related at all and it does make me wonder about meth "safety" much more..

More info here:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694

Apparently he ran map 10 with full boltons and meth on his JB3...its pretty shocking! Who makes those aftermarket intake manifolds again?

[tscdennab]

I think it's too early to tell what was the cause.

[cn555ic]

It doesnt say anything about blow off valve being defective..Dzenno you think that was the cause of his manifold to blow up? From what I read OP thinks its the methanol that caused the backpressure which I guess you might be right the BOV not working would have trapped the pressure and bye bye manifold

[Tiago@VRSF]

Meth backfire sounds about right. Takes a lot more than 20psi to blow a hole in the IM.

[dzenno]

It shouldn't be hard to tell boost vs backfire...if it was backfire there should be some burn marks inside no?

[Tiago@VRSF]

If his BOV was defective it wouldn't cause the manifold to explode. If the TB blade closes the residual pressure would follow into the cylinder head. Just because his foot isn't on the gas doesn't mean his valves aren't operating like they should.

This is a meth backfire. Nothing to do with bovs. The bov/dv is in place to protect your turbo from surge, nothing more.

[cn555ic]

I would like to know what his meth setup is....what type of kit, nozzles and location of nozzles...

[Bakeme521]

That had to be meth backfire. It has a massive piece broken off the bottom and 3 raunchy cracks. Plus a crack where the intake comes in at meaning that was pressure pushing outward from the intake manifold on the butterfly. Even if it were the BOV, which I don't see how it that would be what a max of 22 psi in there? It would take a lot more than that to do what happened.

[cn555ic]

Whats this white residue on the cracked piece, I hope Qmax doesn't mind that I took the pic from the other site...I would think its from meth backfiring no? What psi does a 15ohm board and map 10 give you with a JB3??

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

If his BOV was defective it wouldn't cause the manifold to explode. If the TB blade closes the residual pressure would follow into the cylinder head. Just because his foot isn't on the gas doesn't mean his valves aren't operating like they should.

This is a meth backfire. Nothing to do with bovs. The bov/dv is in place to protect your turbo from surge, nothing more.

+1

Something else happened. We will probably have to wait until a new manifold is installed (and his car running again) to know if anything else is going on. It would also be useful to know what code caused the flashing SES light (misfire?).

Shiv

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

Meth backfire sounds about right. Takes a lot more than 20psi to blow a hole in the IM.

ditto

[OpenFlash]

Intake backfires are usually caused by running too lean and/or with too much ignition advance. Throw methanol into the equation and I'd imagine that backfire can get pretty severe. Especially if it pools behind a closed throttle blade and then joins the party once it is started. Either way, bad stuff.

[scalbert]

With the cracks going across reinforcing ribs, that is not a simple failure. An event occurred which, as has been suggested, was most likely a meth backfire. Also, as mentioned, it has zero to do with the bypass valve as it is on the other side of the throttle.

What I am finding the most astonishing is the intention and support shown to put the vehicle back to stock and hope the dealer takes care of it. This solely the responsibility of the owner and the suggestion and support otherwise is completely unscrupulous.

[Bakeme521]

Originally Posted by scalbert

With the cracks going across reinforcing ribs, that is not a simple failure. An event occurred which, as has been suggested, was most likely a meth backfire. Also, as mentioned, it has zero to do with the bypass valve as it is on the other side of the throttle.

What I am finding the most astonishing is the intention and support shown to put the vehicle back to stock and hope the dealer takes care of it. This solely the responsibility of the owner and the suggestion and support otherwise is completely unscrupulous.

I agree, I would save myself the embarrassment and find a junkyard engine or try to pick up a manifold used somewhere and just change it out myself instead of: 1.) Going thru all the trouble to put the car back to stock b/c you know they aren't going to cover it and 2.)Save yourself from that embarrassing moment when the SA KNOWS that you blew it up and he comes to tell you that there is nothing they can do and you can pay for the tow to have it brought back to your house and you can kiss your warranty good bye.

[OpenFlash]

+1. No way the dealership is going to cover that failure. And it's likely that the car will be flagged in the computer. Which means that getting anything covered by warranty in the future (legitimately) will be tough.

Shiv

[techlogik]

That molded plastic intake manifold is an obvious weak spot...there is a reason all high performance cars should have aluminum ones.

That thing could have been doomed from the original time is was molded injected...or whatever process they use on these to make them.

To crack lengthwise though seems to indicate more than just a flawed mold process.

I don't care how many people are running meth on these things and haven't experienced issues. It is a risky proposition running meth, and if you tune isn't dead on and capable of handling knock/ignition retard and fueling properly, good night engine and parts.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by techlogik

That molded plastic intake manifold is an obvious weak spot...there is a reason all high performance cars should have aluminum ones.

That thing could have been doomed from the original time is was molded injected...or whatever process they use on these to make them.

To crack lengthwise though seems to indicate more than just a flawed mold process.

I don't care how many people are running meth on these things and haven't experienced issues. It is a risky proposition running meth, and if you tune isn't dead on and capable of handling knock/ignition retard and fueling properly, good night engine and parts.

Sure, plastic might be a weak spot but there are some pretty damn strong plastics much stronger than aluminum...in any case, imagine he backfired this way with an alu manifold...what would've broken then, head? maybe he got away pretty good here as he damaged a part easy to replace...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Sure, plastic might be a weak spot but there are some pretty damn strong plastics much stronger than aluminum...in any case, imagine he backfired this way with an alu manifold...what would've broken then, head? maybe he got away pretty good here as he damaged a part easy to replace...

Some effort should be taken to determine if there is any actual engine damage. For one, with hold that big in the intake manifold, the engine should be racing towards redline/fuel cut. Or at the very least have a very high idle speed. Not grumbling around like it has an aggressive cam and flashing the SES light. I hope, for qmax03's sake, that damage the is limited to the manifold. But he should really investigate further. At least unplug the fuel injectors connectors and see if the engine spins around freely, evenly and with no weird sounds, during cranking. If not, there is a deeper, more expensive problem that needs to be dealt with. And if so, it could be a case of that problem being the cause of the other problem.

Shiv

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Shiv, when this car reaches the rev limiter, is it a throttle closure, fuel cut, or ignition cut?

I agree about the dealer, I think I would just seek out a new manifold.

Its too much work going back to stock, to "hope" they fix it and deal with all the other stuff. Thats up to Q of course.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Shiv, when this car reaches the rev limiter, is it a throttle closure, fuel cut, or ignition cut?

I agree about the dealer, I think I would just seek out a new manifold.

Its too much work going back to stock, to "hope" they fix it and deal with all the other stuff. Thats up to Q of course.

It's an ignition timing cut as well as a throttle closure. Since the manifold hole is effectively acting like a secondary throttle that isnt closing, the dme should cut enough timing to keep the engine from overrevving. Not something that I'd want to test myself of course.

I really think something else is going on. Testing compression or at least confirming that the enine cranks over smoothly should be the next step.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Meth backfires are nasty stuff! Makes sense it would happen during a shift when meth pools in the manifold. Yet another reason to keep a decent amount of water in the mix for safety.

Mike

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Meth backfires are nasty stuff! Makes sense it would happen during a shift when meth pools in the manifold. Yet another reason to keep a decent amount of water in the mix for safety.

Mike

It's more important to make sure that the conditions which lead to intake backfire don't happen in the first place. The meth doesn't ignite itself Mike.