[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Bluesun

From the "other forum" (I still can't believe how childish this censoring nonsense is...anyways)


It makes sense, given that the pistons are cast. I wonder what the OEM rods are good to, given that they're forged.

I think it has A LOT more to do with the tune, since there are lots of RB Turbo/Vargas S2s pushing 550 HP and near 600 WTQ (and TQ is the breaking force, not HP). 100% OEM 2JZs (since someone referenced this motor earlier) can be taken up to the 900s.

Can you share the title of the thread so I can read it? Would love to see when these posts were made and if there's any other supporting evidence.

Originally Posted by Jeef

I don't understand why people are worrying about pistons when vac motorsports has an upgrade?

Because that cost lots of money, involves a pricey labor fee (not very many people have the mechanical skill to install pistons properly), and to date has not shown not to be necessary.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

This motor reminds me a lot of diesels. It has a lot of the same issues holding up HP. It has potential but a lot of custom fab work needs to be done before we see 1000+ at the wheels of a N54 rig.

It has a ways to go for sure. IDK we'll see, the motor has a ton of potential but sometimes I wonder why not just get a turbo S54 and be done with it. Something about this motor though....I like it.

Terry's really upping the game right now with his 2 main N54s, so it's a good time to be in our neck of the woods.

[Jeef]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

I think it has A LOT more to do with the tune, since there are lots of RB Turbo/Vargas S2s pushing 550 HP and near 600 WTQ (and TQ is the breaking force, not HP). 100% OEM 2JZs (since someone referenced this motor earlier) can be taken up to the 900s.

Can you share the title of the thread so I can read it? Would love to see when these posts were made and if there's any other supporting evidence.

Because that cost lots of money, involves a pricey labor fee (not very many people have the mechanical skill to install pistons properly), and to date has not shown not to be necessary.

Sorry but the cost of pistons is only 1k if I remember correctly. That's not overly expensive.

[jbertino]

Is this the built motor?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

I think it has A LOT more to do with the tune, since there are lots of RB Turbo/Vargas S2s pushing 550 HP and near 600 WTQ (and TQ is the breaking force, not HP). 100% OEM 2JZs (since someone referenced this motor earlier) can be taken up to the 900s.

Can you share the title of the thread so I can read it? Would love to see when these posts were made and if there's any other supporting evidence.


Because that cost lots of money, involves a pricey labor fee (not very many people have the mechanical skill to install pistons properly), and to date has not shown not to be necessary.

I think BMS' point was not that running > 550rw is a death sentence for your engine. Their point was that most engines above that power level break a piston eventually. So don't shoot for 600rw if you can't afford to also rebuild the engine if it happens to break. With bad tuning you can blow up at 300whp. With good tuning and good luck the motors can run for awhile at higher power levels but it only takes a bit of bad luck at that point to break something. Little extra knock one day, a misfire, a sudden fuel pressure drop, or something that normally would be fine at lower power levels will crack an OEM piston easily at higher power levels.

Mike

[jayzF30]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I think BMS' point was not that running > 550rw is a death sentence for your engine. Their point was that most engines above that power level break a piston eventually. So don't shoot for 600rw if you can't afford to also rebuild the engine if it happens to break. With bad tuning you can blow up at 300whp. With good tuning and good luck the motors can run for awhile at higher power levels but it only takes a bit of bad luck at that point to break something. Little extra knock one day, a misfire, a sudden fuel pressure drop, or something that normally would be fine at lower power levels will crack an OEM piston easily at higher power levels.

Mike

Who is to say at those power levels a forged piston would last in those situations? I am not seeing the argument here.

[ST335i]

Thats flying!!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by jazze90

Who is to say at those power levels a forged piston would last in those situations? I am not seeing the argument here.

No one. But the higher quality piston will take a lot more abuse. So if fuel pressure dives quickly instead of a cracked piston with smoke pouring out the exhaust and a tow ride home you might just wind up with a check engine light instead.

Mike

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Jeef

Sorry but the cost of pistons is only 1k if I remember correctly. That's not overly expensive.

$1k just for the pistons, that's not including other necessary parts & labor (which is going to cost a LOT more). Here's what's going to have to happen for pistons:

• More than likely, the motor will be removed for ease of access
• After all the other stuff in the way is removed (intake manifold, cylinder head, oil pan, etc), the OEM Rods & Pistons will be removed from the crank
• The new pistons will need to have piston rings properly installed & clocked, and then reinstalled on the OEM Rods
• After everything is 100% reassembled/installed, you probably should have a short "break-in" period to allow the rings to properly set & seal

What you're basically doing is building the motor, but strictly doing pistons (so you're saving the cost on other things like forged rods). But obviously with the money you're spending, it'll make lots of sense to upgrade some things like Con Rod Bolts, probably Rod Bearings since it's apart, etc.


So that "only $1k for pistons not overly expensive" is VERY off what the final cost will be.

[Bluesun]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

Can you share the title of the thread so I can read it? Would love to see when these posts were made and if there's any other supporting evidence.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=297452

And in case the above link to another website gets censored (I have no idea what's on the "bad words" list)

It's from a recent thread: "135i BMS FFTEC Single Turbo Dyno Testing "

I'm not trying to call out Terry, and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. I don't think he lists any supporting evidence as the thread was not specifically about this issue -- it was just an offhanded comment. I mostly took it as "btw, if you are really shooting for reliability, stick around the 500hp mark for now".

Can a 2JZ seriously go to 900hp on all OEM internals? That's insane.

[AWTT335i]

Originally Posted by Bluesun

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=297452

And in case the above link to another website gets censored (I have no idea what's on the "bad words" list)

It's from a recent thread: "135i BMS FFTEC Single Turbo Dyno Testing "

I'm not trying to call out Terry, and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. I don't think he lists any supporting evidence as the thread was not specifically about this issue -- it was just an offhanded comment. I mostly took it as "btw, if you are really shooting for reliability, stick around the 500hp mark for now".

Can a 2JZ seriously go to 900hp on all OEM internals? That's insane.

As a dyno queen - yes. A 2JZ wont live long at that kind of power and survive REAL driving abuse. If you want to baby it, it would probably live as a garage and dyno queen.

[Dave W.]

Originally Posted by Bluesun

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=297452

And in case the above link to another website gets censored (I have no idea what's on the "bad words" list)

It's from a recent thread: "135i BMS FFTEC Single Turbo Dyno Testing "

I'm not trying to call out Terry, and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. I don't think he lists any supporting evidence as the thread was not specifically about this issue -- it was just an offhanded comment. I mostly took it as "btw, if you are really shooting for reliability, stick around the 500hp mark for now".

Yes, for now. Tuning is still changing and advancing on this platform. 500 whp might be a reliable point today, but a couple years ago people were saying the engine would blow at 450. Given the number of single turbo cars pushing over 600-650whp and higher today I'm sure we'll see the safe limit pushed up higher, too.

[pwr hungry]

Originally Posted by Bluesun

Yea it definitely has to be built to support 1k+ hp, but the recipe for doing so is pretty well laid out. I guess my real question is, what makes the 2JZ so awesome, and (aside from fueling issues) where is the N54 really lacking? Is it going to be that once we get HPFP/injector upgrades figured out, we'll be seeing 1k hp N54s (pistons/rods/etc)?

That's wrong. There was a whole magazine issue devoted to 1000+whp ALL turbo supras years ago. All turbo being no engine internals upgrading.

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by pwr hungry

That's wrong. There was a whole magazine issue devoted to 1000+whp ALL turbo supras years ago. All turbo being no engine internals upgrading.

How long did those last on the road?