[Huertabmw]

Coming around to do my transmission fluid change but cannot decide what type of fluid to use. i know there lots of threads on this but mostly on AT. i have a 6mt and out of warranty... so any suggestions???

thanks!

[742]

I went with OEM.

In my experience Redline MTL has been like concrete below 20 degrees. I use it in an MGB and a 2002 with great results, but I stick to the OEM fluid for the daily drivers. If I lived in California I might approach this differently.

[bimmernoob]

I have heard great things about red line, and I think the recommendation is actually to use the Redline D4ATF (even for our 6MT). Once my warranty is out, that will be what I am going to put in my gear box.

[Huertabmw]

one of the best indy shops here in minneapolis told me that they use Redline MTL, they said it was better... im still not sure, $10 for a bottle of Redline versus $60 for two liters of oem at dealer...

[742]

Originally Posted by Huertabmw

one of the best indy shops here in minneapolis told me that they use Redline MTL, they said it was better... im still not sure, $10 for a bottle of Redline versus $60 for two liters of oem at dealer...

Maybe I am wrong, Lord knows that my wife has a list, but wait until winter. And in the meantime look up the cost of a reman transmission. It makes that $60/liter look pretty cheap.

[bimmernoob]

why do we assume that because bmw is charging $30 a liter it must be better than Redline? I think that's a pretty silly way to determine if an oil is better no? Again, I can't push for Redline because I haven't ran it in my car yet, but the following are reason why I think they are probably very good.

1. Mike Miller (Technical Editor for Roundel Magazine, and have rebuilt gazillion trannies) says he always uses Redline and have been using them for years.
2. Quite a few members on this forum indicates they are running Redline and found it to be much better than OEM.
3. An Tech from a BMW/Mini Indi-shop told me that he put redline on his buddies car and they found it to dramatically improve shifts.

So again... I don't think simply using the cost of the oil as the indicator for the quality of the oil is the right approach.

[AlanAZ]

I used Redline ATF in my E46 MT for many years (MTL is for earlier BMW gearboxes), it helped with the cold shift problem.

I'm currently using RP Synchromax in my E90 MT, which is better than the factory fluid, but may switch to Redline at the next change, I think Redline is a better tested, higher quality product.

UPDATE: I've swapped out the Synchromax. The great shifting it provided only lasted a few months, then was about the same as the factory fluid w/60K miles on it.

I put in Redline D4 ATF for use in the Phoenix extremely hot climate. According to Redline tech support, D6 ATF is closest viscosity to the factory fluid and is recommended, espec. in colder climates (D6 is about 10% thinner than D4, so not much difference -- Synchromax is a heavier viscosity than even the D4.)

[camper-11]

I ran Redline MTL in my E46 M3 6-Speed MT for a couple years with no issues. On very cold days it was a bit notchy for the first few minutes, but went away quickly and nothing I worried about. I will also agree with the post about Mike Miller from BMWCCA / Bimmer recommending this lube. If you are in the BMW CCA (which you should be if only for the discounts), you can e-mail him and he will send you his maintenance schedule where this is all discussed at length.

[cb1111]

The use of non-approved fluids may (will?) cause warranty issues.

[bimmernoob]

Originally Posted by cb1111

The use of non-approved fluids may (will?) cause warranty issues.

Noted and a good point. However, the OP indicates that he is already out of warranty. I think not using Redline while still in the warranty window to avoid any warranty claim issues is a good recommendation, but once one is out of it I just can't see why one won't give it a try given all the strong positive experiences many have had with it.

[ska///235i]

whats new?

Originally Posted by cb1111

The use of non-approved fluids may (will?) cause warranty issues.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by bimmernoob

Noted and a good point. However, the OP indicates that he is already out of warranty. I think not using Redline while still in the warranty window to avoid any warranty claim issues is a good recommendation, but once one is out of it I just can't see why one won't give it a try given all the strong positive experiences many have had with it.

True - but - how can redline improve performance while not causing any harm?

Let's take formulations out of the equation and just approach this logically.

If redline is substantially cheaper than OE (and - as some claim - better) then why doesn't BMW use it as factory fill? Simple - because it presumeable causes increased wear (or something as equally unpleasant)

The use of lubricants in modern engines is carefully tested and the number crunchers are always on the engineers to cut costs. A savings of some $50 a liter (hell, say a savings of $2 a liter) is enough to have the manufacturer evaluate the other lubricant. There is a reason why they don't use redline.

[bimmernoob]

Originally Posted by cb1111

True - but - how can redline improve performance while not causing any harm?

Let's take formulations out of the equation and just approach this logically.

If redline is substantially cheaper than OE (and - as some claim - better) then why doesn't BMW use it as factory fill? Simple - because it presumeable causes increased wear (or something as equally unpleasant)

The use of lubricants in modern engines is carefully tested and the number crunchers are always on the engineers to cut costs. A savings of some $50 a liter (hell, say a savings of $2 a liter) is enough to have the manufacturer evaluate the other lubricant. There is a reason why they don't use redline.

Really? My life experience in this world tells me that in the world of business is about partnership and profit. BMW may not choose to use Redline because the top execs at BMW doesn't go golfing with the Redline CEO, or it could be that because Redline does not produce the same volume of fluids like Castrol/Mobil and therefore not able to supply the fluids to BMW at a lower price than the big companies. Or it's the combination of both of those reasons.

Now... without any facts to support my claim, I still maintain that BMW is making a tone of money on these tranny fluids. $30 a liter?!!! I would be surprised if it cost more than $5 a liter for them. So let's not take the cost of these fluids at face value and judge the quality of oil based on that. Majority of the BMW owners are unlike that of Honda/Toyota in that most don't service their own cars and will take their cars to stealerships/bmw-indi-shops which will use OEM fluids, and BMW is very much aware of this. And because of this it allows them to charge ridiculous amount of money for them while knowing people will pay for it. This makes a lot of business sense to me.

I don't want this thread to turn into another one of those engine oil flaming debates. Let's just let both side present their stories, and let the readers decide.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by Huertabmw

Coming around to do my transmission fluid change but cannot decide what type of fluid to use. i know there lots of threads on this but mostly on AT. i have a 6mt and out of warranty... so any suggestions???

thanks!

Personally, I threw Red Line MTL in my gearbox. I live in south-west Florida, so cold-weather shifting is not a issue for me.

I have clocked a little over 10,000 miles on the MTL and I am completely satisfied with the fluid. Prior to MTL, I had two major complaints:
1) My 1-2 upshift was very notchy, especially before the fluid had warmed up.
2) My 2-3 upshift was also quite notchy though not as bad as the 1-2 shift. For whatever reason, there were times where my gear selector would 'bounce' off the 3rd-gear gate. This was not a daily occurrence, but there were times that it just took an inordinate amount of push to get the gear to engage. The dealership said everything was 'normal', so unsatisfied, I went looking for an answer.

Since putting in MTL, issue #1 above is greatly reduced and issue #2 has never occurred.

D4ATF is the recommended fluid for my transmission, but after speaking with three people whose opinion I greatly respect when it comes to BMW (Gertrag) gearboxes, I opted for MTL.

Now the disclaimer - Red Line MTL is not an approved gearbox oil, so do your own homework and proceed at your own risk.