[DUI Elite]

Originally Posted by m3alabama

Why post inaccurate info that could potentially blow a guy's tranny? The zf unit is the same model but different sub-model with a MUCH lower torque rating than the 335 which has a much much higher torque rating. The ZF was used in multiple lines across the board but the 328/330/325 got the much lower one than the 335/535/545/550/650 etc


Thee 328 ZF is rated for MAX 300 foot pounds of torque from the engine (not the wheels).

Originally Posted by TroyDeJ

how is that inaccurate info that can blow someones tranny? and the 328 DOES have a GM and the 325/330 DOES have a ZF. the ZF is known to be better and be able to handle more power

Originally Posted by Patmos330

According to the info provided the 328 got the GM tranny. The 325/330 got the same tranny as the 335, the ZF. So what you're saying makes no sense. IE: "the 328 ZF"

Because all of the info provided isn't complete.

Early 2007 328's also had ZF transmissions. Hence "the 328 ZF"

[plokij]

Originally Posted by jim.e.

This is just me...but...why not just do a 335i swap? I've seen motors go for almost $6000 (give or take a grand) w/ harness, ecu, sensors and all. Throw in another 2 grand at most for labor, and you've spent $8000 for the power you're trying to attain.

Obviously sounds easier than it is, but I don't know, hence why I'm asking - would it not be cheaper/simpler to do a swap?

8000 is much more than the SC kit which will far exceed the 335i stock power. You're forgetting the inter cooler and the exhaust changes as well. That project doesn't seem worth it for the effort. Engine swap to M3 or M5 engine would be worth it.

And most of us do not want turbo technology due to reliability and long term operations concerns. SC is different tech than turbo.

I'd reasonably expect a 328 SC to produce around 400 bhp.

[plokij]

So about the auto trans discussion... it's probably worth mentioning that the 328 test mule that AA uses for dev is a pre-LCI with steptronic auto.

[DESI4life10]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

Because all of the info provided isn't complete.

Early 2007 328's also had ZF transmissions. Hence "the 328 ZF"

You sure about this? My 2007 328 (PY 10/2006) has a GM tranny. i have yet to see a 328 with a zf tranny.

[DUI Elite]

Originally Posted by DESI4life10

You sure about this? My 2007 328 (PY 10/2006) has a GM tranny. i have yet to see a 328 with a zf tranny.

Fairly sure. Only the later 2007 328's will have the GM transmissions. If you have transmission GA6HP19Z, you have the ZF thats the same in the 323i, 325i, and 330i.

[DESI4life10]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

Fairly sure. Only the later 2007 328's will have the GM transmissions. If you have transmission GA6HP19Z, you have the ZF thats the same in the 323i, 325i, and 330i.

I did a tranny flush on my car and it was a GM tranny.

The filter element and the mechatronic has a GM symbol (let along the metal pan and seperated oil filter (zf integrates the pan and filter together).

What are your sources for this?

[CombatNinja]

Originally Posted by plokij

And most of us do not want turbo technology due to reliability and long term operations concerns. SC is different tech than turbo.

I'd reasonably expect a 328 SC to produce around 400 bhp.

Soooooo, what you're saying is that an aftermarket supercharger kit made in a Florida warehouse and fitted to a 3-series platform never intended to see forced induction will somehow be more reliable than the OEM solution using two small turbos, oil coolers, enhanced cooling, strengthened blocks and ground-up engine management guided by countless engineers and backed by hundreds of millions of R&D funds? Yeah, that sounds about right.

As to your second point about 400 bhp. I think Active's development car is an automatic. I don't think the transmission would hold together long enough to even get a good dyno run in.

[DUI Elite]

Originally Posted by DESI4life10

I did a tranny flush on my car and it was a GM tranny.

The filter element and the mechatronic has a GM symbol (let along the metal pan and seperated oil filter (zf integrates the pan and filter together).

What are your sources for this?

ECS Tuning. You can order the Pan and Filter (attached as one like you stated) for the 328i N52.



and for the xi just to make sure its not because of awd or something




If yours was the GM, I'm curious when / how / why they started distinguishing them.

[plokij]

Originally Posted by CombatNinja

Soooooo, what you're saying is that an aftermarket supercharger kit made in a Florida warehouse and fitted to a 3-series platform never intended to see forced induction will somehow be more reliable than the OEM solution using two small turbos, oil coolers, enhanced cooling, strengthened blocks and ground-up engine management guided by countless engineers and backed by hundreds of millions of R&D funds? Yeah, that sounds about right.

As to your second point about 400 bhp. I think Active's development car is an automatic. I don't think the transmission would hold together long enough to even get a good dyno run in.

Okey dokey, bro.

[plokij]

even though it's already been said in this thread, i guess the naysayers love to say nay...

the SC is much different than turbocharging like the N54/55 system. that unit is integrated into the engine core (for the exhaust capture/recycle) and most of the traditional problems associated with those types of techniques persisted (and continue to persist) for the 335i, namely heat soaking and engine component failure/damage. that shit works great for diesel type compression engines... not so much for petrol without clever and expensive cooling techniques. 335i could not be priced effectively with clever and expensive cooling techniques, so what was produced had issues.

the SC is a bolt-on before the engine that adds cooling and limits the high heat transfer. sure, it may blow itself up but would also leave the engine in tact while doing so. it's also easily reversible should you want to go back to stock (compared to an engine or whole car swap).

in addition, the SC units produce high amounts of horsepower gains and little (comparatively) torque gains to conform to the transmission rating.

lots of sticks-up-asses in here.

[DESI4life10]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

ECS Tuning. You can order the Pan and Filter (attached as one like you stated) for the 328i N52.


and for the xi just to make sure its not because of awd or something



If yours was the GM, I'm curious when / how / why they started distinguishing them.

Interesting. Well I know for a fact mines is a GM tranny. I think ECS might have made a mistake here.

Realoem.com (which is very accurate) shows GM tranny.
Even the very first generation of 328 01/2006 show GM.

Definately think ecs is incorrect here.

[e90pilot]

If an SC blows up, the engine ingests the debris. Usually it causes substantial damage to the head. Also, the 1M uses an N54, doesn't use exorbantly expensive cooling equipment, and doesn't have the same heat issues as other N54s. At least not nearly as bad. Each system has is disadvantages. Personally I like the engine behavior of the SC vs the turbo although I've only driven roots type blowers. I'd love to see how the N52 with an SC turns out.

[plokij]

right on, if it literally blows up. i should have phrased that differently. i'm speculating on the N54/55 cooling techniques but it's the obvious culprit. don't know how much different the 1M system is vs. the 335i. i suspect there's more consideration to cooling there. even if it's slightly more consideration, the cost of implementing that system on the mass production scale for the 335i may be significant to the bottom line. the 1M certainly was not produced in very large quantity.

[Rotorocious]

<3 speculation

[e90pilot]

The 1M has an extra water cooler and bigger fan. The power kit for any N55/54 car will give you those components as well. Most people focus on oil cooling when water cooling was more problematic during track driving. It apparently fits n52s as well. Might be something to look into. It's not very expensive.

[DUI Elite]

Originally Posted by DESI4life10

Interesting. Well I know for a fact mines is a GM tranny. I think ECS might have made a mistake here.

Realoem.com (which is very accurate) shows GM tranny.
Even the very first generation of 328 01/2006 show GM.

Definately think ecs is incorrect here.

Hmm it certainly makes sense. I'll call my bmw dealer and ecs to verify. So far real OEM has only been wrong once in the 50x i've looked something up so we'll see.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by jim.e.

This is just me...but...why not just do a 335i swap? I've seen motors go for almost $6000 (give or take a grand) w/ harness, ecu, sensors and all. Throw in another 2 grand at most for labor, and you've spent $8000 for the power you're trying to attain.

Obviously sounds easier than it is, but I don't know, hence why I'm asking - would it not be cheaper/simpler to do a swap?

I you can find me an n54 front cut fully working for that sort of money. blah blah.. I'll buy it and stick it in my hatchback. Not even kidding.

I just want a 500hp hatchback and i don't care how i get it (note the m135i is HIDEOUSLY UGLY) haha

Ed: preferably under $10-15k total as much as possible still lol (not counting suspension/driveline performance mods)

[e90-ZeRo]

I think $6k is better spent on a nice down payment for a 335i

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by plokij

even though it's already been said in this thread, i guess the naysayers love to say nay...

the SC is much different than turbocharging like the N54/55 system. that unit is integrated into the engine core (for the exhaust capture/recycle) and most of the traditional problems associated with those types of techniques persisted (and continue to persist) for the 335i, namely heat soaking and engine component failure/damage. that shit works great for diesel type compression engines... not so much for petrol without clever and expensive cooling techniques. 335i could not be priced effectively with clever and expensive cooling techniques, so what was produced had issues.

the SC is a bolt-on before the engine that adds cooling and limits the high heat transfer. sure, it may blow itself up but would also leave the engine in tact while doing so. it's also easily reversible should you want to go back to stock (compared to an engine or whole car swap).

in addition, the SC units produce high amounts of horsepower gains and little (comparatively) torque gains to conform to the transmission rating.

lots of sticks-up-asses in here.

There is a lot of misinformation in this post. The turbo systems on the N54 and N55 are not integrated into the engine "core". That doesn't make any sense at all. The turbine housing of the turbos themselves are part of the exhaust manifolds, but the compressor side contains separate units, and can be replaced individually.

As mentioned above, the stock cooling system may be sub par for track conditions, but there are plenty of normal type upgrades that take care of that. Nothing special or clever is needed.

There are two major types of superchargers - positive displacement blowers, and centrifugal blowers. Roots type blowers are positive displacement, and give you instant torque right off idle. The kit talked about in this thread is has the later type (centrifugal), which produces boost based on rpm. So at lower rpms, there is none to little boost, and it builds as the rpms climb and the blower spins faster. You get a much peakier power band with this type of blower, as opposed to a flatter torque curve with more low and midrange power on a roots type.

And if you blow your engine running a supercharger, it will do the same exact damage as blowing your engine running a turbo. cracked pistons, bent/broken rods, holes in the block, etc. There isn't going to be a difference there if you make a tuning mistake.

Also, this kit has no cooling before the intake, I don't know where you derived that from, but everything so far has shown this as a non-intercooled system.

But for a basic kit, a non-intercooled system should be fine, as long as low boost is used. Just don't expect 350-400hp on a basic kit, you'd need a lot more than that to be able to support that kind of power. The truth is, you'll need just as much of that fancy cooling stuff the N54/N55 needs to be able to safely run that kind of power. There are no shortcuts when it comes to making reliable power.

I'm not against the SC system at all, I'm just against spreading erroneous information. There is a lot of stuff that goes with adding forced induction on a naturally aspirated engine that wasn't originally designed for it, weather it be SC or Turbo. And there are always going to be tradeoffs when you start adding significant amounts of power to an engine.

it's a lot harder than people think.

[plokij]

I don't think there's misinformation here, aside from saying that trannys will break with an SC kit.

There is cooling between the SC unit and the engine. I don't know what you're talking about.

The turbos ARE part of the engine core. How can they not be when they simultaneously capture exhaust AND feed the combustion? And yes, they're not properly cooled on the N54/55 and higher end turbo cars implement more advanced/expensive techniques. That's not BS.

And I didn't mean that the SC would literally blow to pieces. If the unit fails then take it out. You still have a usable car. You have to go get shit replaced on a 335i.

And if it's so hard then why do e46 cars have these types of systems pushing 380bhp safely?

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by plokij

I don't think there's misinformation here, aside from saying that trannys will break with an SC kit.

There is cooling between the SC unit and the engine. I don't know what you're talking about.

Base kits from AA do not have cooling between the SC and the intake. You will need an upgraded kit for that.

The turbos ARE part of the engine core. How can they not be when they simultaneously capture exhaust AND feed the combustion? And yes, they're not properly cooled on the N54/55 and higher end turbo cars implement more advanced/expensive techniques. That's not BS.

No they are not. They are on the exhaust manifolds, you can even see it in pictures. I don't think you understand what you are talking about. what do you mean when you say "engine core"? please describe what you are talking about. I want to know what you think the engine core is, and how the turbos are integrated into it.

And please describe these advanced/expensive cooling techniques that the "higher end" turbo cars implement that the 335i does not.

And I didn't mean that the SC would literally blow to pieces. If the unit fails then take it out. You still have a usable car. You have to go get shit replaced on a 335i.

it all depends on what the point of failure is. The SC can cause and engine component to fail, which would not leave a "usable car" afterward. Even if the supercharger itself failed, it would most likely send debris into the engine, which would also not leave a "usable car".

And if it's so hard then why do e46 cars have these types of systems pushing 380bhp safely?

there was no factory turbo version of the E46, the demand for a FI kit was higher than for our cars, since if you wanted an E9x with forced induction, you could just go out and get a 335. The computer tuning on the E46 cars was also a lot easier than on N52 cars. "Safe" is one thing. But that doesn't mean that there aren't going to be any compromises in the long run. if you think there are zero downsides of running 380hp on an engine that originally came with 230, then more power to you. One thing is for certain though, reliability does not come cheap.

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by plokij

i like the manifold swap in theory but it's just not possible to pull off correctly because of the locked software.

N52 SC is way different tech than N54/55 turbo. probably would be more reliable than factory HPFP, too! lol.

just fyi, the software is not locked. AA has a very good tune for those who have done the IM swap.