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      12-20-2013, 07:49 AM   #1
CT_335D
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Time to replace my tires

I need to replace my RFT on my 2009 BMW 335d. I read many comments on how people were disappointent with their RFT and swapped them for regular tires. I bought the car used and put about 22k miles on the RFT tires and didn't have any issues.

My question is since the car came with RFT and the suspension was calibrated for these tires, could I replace them with regular tires without affecting the performance of the car?
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      12-20-2013, 08:09 AM   #2
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Maybe but you probably don't drive the car past 7/10 anyways right?

I would think at the margin is where you would notice a difference in performance.
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      12-20-2013, 08:40 AM   #3
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Big differance i hv had a set of Hankook Ventus and now Michelin PSS but my car is non sport and running Koni FSD's
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      12-20-2013, 08:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_335D View Post
I need to replace my RFT on my 2009 BMW 335d. I read many comments on how people were disappointent with their RFT and swapped them for regular tires. I bought the car used and put about 22k miles on the RFT tires and didn't have any issues.

My question is since the car came with RFT and the suspension was calibrated for these tires, could I replace them with regular tires without affecting the performance of the car?
Tough question. That's what the dealer warned me about, but I took that as the party line to keep me coming back for dealer tires. Unfortunately I changed out the suspension before I changed out the tires instead of vice versa so I can't tell you. But, the suspension made the biggest change for me, and then the switch from RFT to the go-flat Michelin PSS just finished off the handling mod as it were. As Socom said, I think you would only notice the difference at the higher edges of performance in terms of your question. I can tell you that the tires made a huge difference to me for the road noise, harshness over speed bumps and road imperfections, and without a doubt the grip. A good suspension upgrade that meets your needs is a different part of the equation.
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      12-20-2013, 08:48 AM   #5
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I have the 335d w/o sport package so I replaced the RFT Contis with the Michelin Primacy MXM4 RFT from TireRack and they're much quieter than the Continental were and handle just about the same as far as I can tell. For the price, you can't beat them.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....r=Base%20Model
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      12-20-2013, 09:13 AM   #6
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It WILL affect the performance of the car. It will be an improvement. RFT will not handle the same as non-rft. Some have said that the grip 'feels' stiffer with RFT but this is misleading as RFT will feel stiff right up until they lose grip. NON-RFT allow sidewall flex which you need at the margins of handling because the tire will flex and hold the surface before giving away.
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      12-20-2013, 09:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_335D View Post
...My question is since the car came with RFT and the suspension was calibrated for these tires, could I replace them with regular tires without affecting the performance of the car?
The difference between COMPARABLE RFT and go-flat tires (Michelin PS2 ZP and PSS for instance) is so slight that you won't notice up to 9/10.

IME, although "pothole crashing" is reduced, the ride difference is slight.
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      12-20-2013, 10:05 AM   #8
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I bought michelin pss non rft. Car is quieter and has a better ride now.
Ended up buying a $50 12v car portable air compressor and tire plug kit from amazon.
If i have an issue I can plug the tire and inflate it back up. A proper bmw spare is 300-400$
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      12-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_335D View Post
I need to replace my RFT on my 2009 BMW 335d. I read many comments on how people were disappointent with their RFT and swapped them for regular tires. I bought the car used and put about 22k miles on the RFT tires and didn't have any issues.

My question is since the car came with RFT and the suspension was calibrated for these tires, could I replace them with regular tires without affecting the performance of the car?
So here's my story. I had the RFT's, I did replace them to PSS non-rft. I bought the mobility kit from Tire Rack.

Everything with OEM suspension was better than with the RFT. Went on a vacation in June to Santa Barbara where I had the Ohlins installed.

On my first leg of a two week trip I got a screw in the tire but never noticed anything until morning. I was driving around town when the light went off showing low pressure. I went into a mall parking lot and filled up the tire but didn't use the sealant. I took the car to a good tire shop recommended by friends in this town. Cost to fix the tire was about 10-20 dollars. There were no shops that could have done RFT in the town. Anyhow while I was there, I met a guy who was driving through in his Mercedes and he was in for something similar. He had RFT, and he ended up buying a rim with new non-rft tire to fit his car. He had much difficulty getting his tire into his trunk.

When I was getting my tire repaired I could only think that I could have been that guy getting a new rim with tire to start my holiday and then having to leave room so I could pick up the tire on the way back.

In Europe I do really see the value of an RFT tire, but in Canada, I see no value for the tire. If I got even half way from where I live to any major centre with a BMW dealership, I got a minimum a tow because the tires will not get me to a dealer.
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      12-20-2013, 07:47 PM   #10
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I just got these:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ort+A%2FS+Plus

$900 because they just came out with a newer version.

"The Pilot Sport A/S Plus is the Ultra High Performance All-Season tire member of Michelin's Pilot family of low profile, high-speed tires that represents the evolution of the Pilot Sport A/S. Developed for the drivers of high-end sports cars, sporty coupes and performance sedans, the Pilot Sport A/S Plus is designed to combine enhanced all-weather performance, wet grip and treadwear along with year-round traction, including in light snow."

They are nicer than the OEM RFTs. Maybe slightly quieter, but they feel grippier (probably because the weather has been in the slow 40s during the day).

I wouldn't say it is a night and day difference, but the are more comfortable on the highway. No issues so far...but I won't have an extended road test until next week.

They also include lifetime towing in the event of a flat.

They seem like a good compromise.
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      12-21-2013, 11:27 AM   #11
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Sport D with Michelin PSS, put on about 10k after new because I was not a fan of the heavy clunking drive, very high unsprung weight and the relatively sudden breakaway of the RE050a Potenzas near the limit of their traction. Will buy another set of PSS no questions asked this summer -- running dedicated winters and the PSS summers, my PSS lasted 4 years and about 65-70,000km of the 140,000km that I have on the car now. Get a quality performance tire (with a very nice to have high mileage rating) and you won't regret it.

Remember that RFTs were a legal requirement since BMW has moved to non-spares. Not necessarily a way to increase your car's performance. If they were, you would probably see RFTs in Formula 1...
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      12-21-2013, 01:24 PM   #12
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I use Yokahama ADVAN Neova AD08, non RFT. Very good on the dry.
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      12-21-2013, 03:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DnA Diesel View Post

Remember that RFTs were a legal requirement since BMW has moved to non-spares.
In Canada only?

Porsche sports cars don't come with spares or run flats.
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      12-22-2013, 11:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by daveN007 View Post
In Canada only?

Porsche sports cars don't come with spares or run flats.
Not sure, Dave. Is that still Porsche's policy (some cars with neither a spare, nor run-flats)? I can't imagine the Stateside legal departments allowing...gosh...regular (hi perf) tires on a car that was readily available to consumers.

Cheers
D.
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      12-23-2013, 06:39 AM   #15
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Legality varies by state. For example MD required a spare if one was available, so our 2010 has a donut in the trunk (a $500 option). However no Z ever was OEM'd with RFTs.

RF's are a choice made by the manufacturer in most cases for profit and space. Porsche has their N rating system which they use for OEM tires, and are mostly not RF's (their may be some now a days but not in my 17/18" OEM Cayman sizes

Porsche includes a pump/goo kit, just like BMW has. Theirs just cost more.

Our D MSport was an off lease car we snagged but PO did *not* put RFs on it when changing tires. Thought that was a 'requirement' for leasing a car but obviously every rule is meant to be broken in the name of getting a sale.

I'm personally not a fan of RFT's unless you drive in a high flat risk area, and that seems to be less and less these days.

- b
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      12-24-2013, 01:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
It WILL affect the performance of the car. It will be an improvement. RFT will not handle the same as non-rft. Some have said that the grip 'feels' stiffer with RFT but this is misleading as RFT will feel stiff right up until they lose grip. NON-RFT allow sidewall flex which you need at the margins of handling because the tire will flex and hold the surface before giving away.
+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

It will improve the grip (well as other's have stated my comparison is between NRFTs and the older Bridgestone RFTs, I dont know about newer RFTs) if you are happy with the grip of the RFTs, then it will make up for the grip you lose by moving to all seasons and now you can get into snowy areas once in a while.

If you stick with summer/or wet/dry tires you will gain grip, you will have a more comfortable ride, you will have no more pothole explosions and no more sidewall bubbles, and you wont get stuck in ruts so easily.

I always carry a plug kit and a space saver spare with compressor, jack and lug wrench.
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Last edited by Quasimodem; 12-24-2013 at 06:37 PM..
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      12-24-2013, 09:34 AM   #17
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Most posters that dislike RFT's on the Tire Rack web site have apparently used first generation versions. Bridgestone, for one, now is in its 3rd generation of design of RFT's, and has had some reviews describe little difference in tire characteristics between non RFT's and RFT's. I am therefore still on the fence since the convenience of having a choice in a situation where it would be better to drive off the road may be better.

I also discount the stories of new non-RFT's being much better since the comparison may be of a nearly worn tire to a new one. In my experience, replacing with the same tire always produced better ride/less noise/better handling than the worn out tires.
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      12-24-2013, 07:56 PM   #18
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The significantly higher unsprung weight of a run-flat will significantly affect handling, and not in a good way.

My OEM Potenza's had less than 5,000km (3,000mi) on them when I switched them out for Michelin PSS, so it was not at all a question of "an old worn out RFT being shown up by a new sticky non-RFT".
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      12-24-2013, 11:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DnA Diesel View Post
The significantly higher unsprung weight of a run-flat will significantly affect handling, and not in a good way.

My OEM Potenza's had less than 5,000km (3,000mi) on them when I switched them out for Michelin PSS, so it was not at all a question of "an old worn out RFT being shown up by a new sticky non-RFT".
BMW designs the suspension according to the unsprung weight in its original specs. Comparing the latest 3rd generation RFT's to their equivalent non-RFT versions, Bridgestones are the same weight. The two brands and tires you are comparing may also be a first or second generation RFT Bridgestone to one of the best tires on the market, the PSS.

From Tire Rack with Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT vs Potenza RE970AS Pole Position: in the 225/40-18 and 255/35-18 sizes for the sport package 335d, they are listed as weighing the same: 25 and 29 lbs respectively in both RFT and non-RFT configurations.

Michelin Pilot Super Sports are about 13% lighter (22 and 25 lbs) than the closest tire they sell in RFT (24 and 29 lbs). Certainly switching to lighter tires may alter the handling characteristics, and improve the unsprung weight. But being a RFT doesn't necessarily make it heavier vs the non-RFT equivalent, at least in the case of 3rd generation Bridgestones.
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      12-25-2013, 04:18 PM   #20
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I have the non-Run-flat Conti DWS. It is an improvement in handling and comfort from the Conti Run-Flat that came with the car. And it 2/3 the price!

BTW, the E90 M3 has regular tire, a compressor and goo in the trunk
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      12-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
...Certainly switching to lighter tires may alter the handling characteristics, and improve the unsprung weight. But being a RFT doesn't necessarily make it heavier vs the non-RFT equivalent, at least in the case of 3rd generation Bridgestones.
Yes it does.

Every number you've provided shows heavier RFTs than non-RFT equivalent. Even the 3rd gen RE-050a Potenza RFT is 27 lbs for a 255/35-18, compared to 25 lbs for the same size PSS. That's still 2 lbs, or 8% lighter, and will certainly make for less pounding and better adherence of the tire contact area to the pavement.

I'm up for being proven wrong, so look forward to being shown a 255/35-18 RFT that is at least as light as a similarly sized PSS...

Point being, while BMW may have designed the suspension to tolerate as best as possible the heavier weights and stiffer sidewalls of RFTs and the impact on unsprung weight and associated influence on handling, non-RFTs appear to many here (hence the numerous recommendations) to be worthy of the move from RFT to non-RFT.


Regards
D.
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      12-27-2013, 12:06 PM   #22
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There are numerous post about Run-Flat vs Regular tires in the Tires section. In general, most that did the switch from RFT to regular tire do not regret it. Most of the posters that praise the RFT never tried the regular tires on the E90.
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