[litany]

V8 + DCT GTS + EDC ZCP = plenty of emotional driving feels and can't be compared to any modified 335i

[KiwiRD]

It usually comes down to money, as ever. By the same reasoning, why don't M3 owners by an M4, or an M5 or an M6? Or a 911 Carrera for that matter, all of which probably offer more 'emotional driving feels' as you put it than an M3 does. I'm sure if everyone had 20K burning a hole in their back pocket they might consider an M3 - but we also know the purchase price is only half the story. Do M3 owners enjoy paying 2K to replace their brakes?

The fact of the matter is an E90/92 M3 for the most part looks similar to a 335i both inside and out. No comments about fender vents or power bulges either - yes there are some differences, but we aren't talking chalk and cheese here.

You can buy a sound 335i for half the price of an equivalent M3, and for 2,000 quid you can make it outrun and outhandle an M3. And you then have enough money left over to maintain it to a high standard. Pedigree? Fair enough. But if you're the type to sit in your M3 at the lights scoff at 335i drivers, then you have more issues than driving an M3 can fix - especially when the guy in the new Lambo pulls up next to you.

Originally Posted by litany

V8 + DCT GTS + EDC ZCP = plenty of emotional driving feels and can't be compared to any modified 335i

[djgandy]

I'm not that likely to ever own an M3 with my mileage. 15k/year is just not doable on the M3 for me. When I start looking at the cost of fuel and servicing and depreciation @ 15k/year, I start to think, I'll get an old Fiesta diesel and something more special for the weekend.

I can drive the 335 every day however.

Even in my mileage cut to 5k a year, I'd probably still skip the M3. There are more special cars for the money of a decent example! Saying that though, they have dropped a lot in price lately, which is long over due.

[windymissile]

I have no idea why anyone would modify a car to look like something else. Modifying to be individual is another story.
I do know why I prefer the 335i over the E90 M3.

WM

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by djgandy

I'm not that likely to ever own an M3 with my mileage. 15k/year is just not doable on the M3 for me. When I start looking at the cost of fuel and servicing and depreciation @ 15k/year, I start to think, I'll get an old Fiesta diesel and something more special for the weekend.

I can drive the 335 every day however.

Even in my mileage cut to 5k a year, I'd probably still skip the M3. There are more special cars for the money of a decent example! Saying that though, they have dropped a lot in price lately, which is long over due.

I'm 8 miles from work and still the V8 just wasn't for me. I loved the power plant in the 335i and had to have it.

[gaza01]

No one is trying to make their 335i into an m3. What you are seeing a a passion for modified cars but somehow linking it to wanting to own an m3 and then associating that with not having the finance to buy an m3 outright. People have different desires / passions in life you know. I personally can't see the point of worshiping a standard car personally but I don't go making threads asking why people don't mod their cars.
Everyone is different guys...stop making associations / assumptions that just do not exist!

[dance171]

Mostly its money!!!

There is a huge difference in owning an M car! Coming from an M6 they are like night and day cars to have in ownership and im not talking about performance! The M tax on all repairs and maintenance are enough to put people off alone my M6 had about 20K spent in repairs in only 3 years of owner ship (vanos, Gearbox, Clutch all around 5K each)

So the question of why would you buy a 335 instead is very simple! NO M TAX!!! As said Ms are more to buy in the first place, more expensive to run, more expensive to repair and more expensive to insure!

My modded 335i will out perform my M6 now after afew grand on mods never mind the M3 it would be completely annihilated by a long way (raced the M3 in my M6 and pulled stupid amounts of car lengths) Granted im basing owner ship from M6 to 335i but its an even stronger argument than the M3

From experience why buy an M3 when you can save a boat load of dosh and have a better car in a modded 335i? You could argue that you could mod the M3 but then your talking double the money of the 335i and then they become no longer comparable!

[vegnomeat]

Originally Posted by dance171

From experience why buy an M3 when you can save a boat load of dosh and have a better car in a modded 335i?

Because you will still have a 335i and not an M3

You have moved this on to a 335i V M3 debate. I wondered why M3's weren't modded like 335i's, apparently its because the M3 is normally aspirated and its as cheap as chips to map a 335i and get an extra 100BHP. It would cost about 8k to increase the M3 by approximately the same amount or even more. But with an M3 you don't have to spend extra on Brakes, Suspension Mods, LSD, Meth kit and all the other kit you would need to compete.

Nobody buys an M3 and wishes they had a 335i. They are totally different cars.

[Sparky68]

You dont need meth in a 335i to beat an M3 in a straight line

[dance171]

ITS MONEY!!!

My 335 stands me at 19K including meth and will run rings round an M3 that costs 20K stock and to mod an M3 to beat a 335i with 500bhp and 575lbs torque you would have to supercharge it! No map or anything will get it close other than supercharging and then your talking double the cost of the 335i. You cant then compare them or its the same as comparing a 458 to an R8 V8 its not a fair comparison when its double the dosh!!!

Thats the reason people buy the 335 that enjoy performance then spend a little making it look more like an M3 which is the ops question

I Never and will never look at an M3 and think man i wish i had that engine compared to mine but i do like the looks of it which is why i would rather have a 335 but with the looks of an M3

I just couldnt justify throwing money into my M car like i was as it ruined the enjoyment of having it!!! Im much happier now with the 335 which is a beast in comparison and for half the money i cant see where the misunderstanding is

[RajB]

I'm totally with Shaun on this one.

I've been modifying cars for more years than I can remember. And tbh that's just the point. I've had plenty of cars including M cars too and every car I've owned I've modded. I just can't leave a car standard as I love the thought of adding my own mark to it. If you look at this forum then you will see like minded people enjoying modding their cars to how they'd like them to be. Most (if not all) will not have bought their 335i thinking the end result is to turn it into an M3. I've chosen some choice mods from the M3 that I like and have added. I certainly don't envy the M3 owner or want one (I had the money to buy one and run one) but like my E60 M5 for example although it was a superb motor out the box I stil wanted to add my own touch to it. But M modding isn't cheap and tbh like the M3 I find to get the real benefits of it you need to really get it up the rev range. As a daily driver I don't want to be pushing it all the time and if I'm not getting the full potential out if it then I don't see the point of it.

You get those who just want the privilege of owning an M3 and have no desire to tinker with it and will probably never use the potential of it and others who will want to really use it as it was intended and then want to mod it to suit. The M3 as standard is superb but by no means if you got it on track and wanted to do out for a good few laps you'd find the brakes for example would start to fade (so then you need brake upgrades) etc.

Also if you head over to M3cutters for example then you'll find all the M owners who are modding the hell out of them to make them better and more individual just like 335i owners here. So then the thread would be why buy an M3 and spend thousands modding it when you can buy a Porsche etc etc.

[KiwiRD]

And you will still have an M3 and not an M5, or anything truly special - it's still just a 3 series I'm afraid, so stop acting like you're driving something only a sheik can afford. You are upholding the general consensus that M3 owners view their cars as some kind of unattainable holy grail of automotive engineering. In actual fact, you're still near the bottom of the ladder in the overall scheme of things. The gap between a 335i and an M3 is marginal in terms of performance and attainability. The gap between an M3 and a truly special car is a whole different scale.

In the end, you can think what you like about your car - as everyone can. But I would suggest to you there are very few 335i owners that pull up next to an M3 and spoof in their kecks like you think they do. What they are more likely thinking is that their car was half the price of yours, costs a fraction to maintain and run, and that your super special M car doesn't stand a chance.

As for 'totally' different cars - you have to be kidding me.

Originally Posted by vegnomeat

Because you will still have a 335i and not an M3

Nobody buys an M3 and wishes they had a 335i. They are totally different cars.

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by vegnomeat

Because you will still have a 335i and not an M3

You have moved this on to a 335i V M3 debate. I wondered why M3's weren't modded like 335i's, apparently its because the M3 is normally aspirated and its as cheap as chips to map a 335i and get an extra 100BHP. It would cost about 8k to increase the M3 by approximately the same amount or even more. But with an M3 you don't have to spend extra on Brakes, Suspension Mods, LSD, Meth kit and all the other kit you would need to compete.

Nobody buys an M3 and wishes they had a 335i. They are totally different cars.

Granted the last few replies on here have been a little confrontational compared to the first page that were generally answering the original question you psoted (which to be fair, wasn't the 335/M3 debate that this has been made into now), but this last post of yours does seem like you're now just trolling and trying to stir people up.

Generally speaking, the ///M snobbery has been around for years though. For years we refused to have a seperate "M" section on our forum despite numerous requests from a number of M owners owners, as ultimately, these cars are based on standard car chassis and so they can simply muck in with everyone else as problems are generally the same across the board and did not warrant a seperate section just so M owners could all hang out together in some little aloof club. A decision that has always been supported by the longer standing members/friends, even those who own M cars themselves!

True car enthusiasts can appreciate any car that has had time and effort put into it, or simply that is even in standard form but is a car to aspire to. It doesn't need to just be about a badge for some people, and I don't think for a minute that anyone who modifies their car to make it more what they want is in any way thinking their main goal at the end of it is to "compete" with anyone - and to suggest that those who tinker with their 335's are wasting their time as their car will never be an M3 is comically arrogant.

My neighbour used to work for BMW, now works at Porsche - so he gets to bring home for the weekend (regularly) brand new exotica I could only dream of owning. However, he is more interested in the driving - track days and such - so his own car (even though he has 2 2015 plate company cars, a VW Scirocco GT something or other, and an Audi TTRS) is a Y reg limited edition Lotus Elise, that he's poured a load of money into with a proper suspension kit and race geometry setup, better seats, etc.

He just likes good cars. Doesn't matter about the badge or social perception. the way it should be, IMO. Live and let live, as no 2 people's personal circumstances are the same, and that will always influence any decision on the automotive weapon of choice.

[vegnomeat]

I can see I have touched a raw nerve with you Kiwi. I have owned a mapped 335i, I adored the car and loved the punch that came from the twin Turbos. The Torque was amazing. Also, I don't view my M3 as some unobtainable holf grail of Automotive engineering but I do view the M3 as a properly engineered performance car way above the standard E9x chassis.

If you care to read my previous comments, I lust after the M4 and it's easily modded engine. It will be my next ride but at this moment in time I can't justify the cost.

I will leave you with your inferiority complex that you really shouldn't have, keep on telling your mates that your 335i is faster and cheaper than an M3 and that you have saved thousands of pounds/dollars and are such a clever boy.

Regards

[Russbmw]

Slightly O/T, but have you driven an M4, out of interest?

A few friends have, and don't rate it as highly as the e9x.

In fact, I bumped into a friend at a local BMW dealer when I was looking at 435's, and he was on his way out to test drive the M4 (he's had a few e36 M3's, e46 M3, and currently has a 2012 E93 335 sport). Liked the car in as much as it was quick, although not as quick as he was expecting, but said there was definitely something "missing" from the whole experience. Enough for him to not want to part with money.

He's now subsequently driven an e92 M3 and much preferred it, so that's the route he's taking now.

Another friend works at BMW and had an M4 convertible for the weekend, and pretty much said similar. He reckoned it felt very throttled, and suspected it would benefit from a remap.

[dance171]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Slightly O/T, but have you driven an M4, out of interest?

A few friends have, and don't rate it as highly as the e9x.

In fact, I bumped into a friend at a local BMW dealer when I was looking at 435's, and he was on his way out to test drive the M4 (he's had a few e36 M3's, e46 M3, and currently has a 2012 E93 335 sport). Liked the car in as much as it was quick, although not as quick as he was expecting, but said there was definitely something "missing" from the whole experience. Enough for him to not want to part with money.

He's now subsequently driven an e92 M3 and much preferred it, so that's the route he's taking now.

Another friend works at BMW and had an M4 convertible for the weekend, and pretty much said similar. He reckoned it felt very throttled, and suspected it would benefit from a remap.

JB4 and its a completely different story on these cars they are animals!!

[gangzoom]

I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is....

Everyone here is an adult, we have all chosen to spend our money different, and we all arrive at our decisions in different ways. There's no 'right' or 'wrong'.

What a boring place the world would be if we all thought the same way, spent our money on the same car/house/phone etc....

[windymissile]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Another friend works at BMW and had an M4 convertible for the weekend, and pretty much said similar. He reckoned it felt very throttled, and suspected it would benefit from a remap.

And a hydraulic steering rack. The electric steering is shite at best.

WM

[vegnomeat]

I haven't driven an M4, I did sit in one recently at my local dealer and loved it. Saying that, I loved my E46 330ci, my 335i and the 325i. They all feel just perfect when you sit in them. I'm gravitating towards the M4 simply because I miss the torque shove that a turbo can give you (335i) and love the handling that the M3 has. As has been pointed out, I know you can get more power from a 335i than the standard M3.

I am not denigrating anyones ride and I certainly don't feel superior, I use a 50CC Moped for just blasting around locally and I use a push bike for the 3 mile commute to work. I chose an M3 because I had always wanted one and so far I haven't been dissapointed.

Regards

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by vegnomeat

I use a 50CC Moped for just blasting around locally

Ah man, reading through your signature of car history....do your motorbike test for God's sake!!

I love my bike.

[vegnomeat]

I passed my bike test 35 years ago (I'm old), Current ride is a Yamaha Tracer and the previous was a Monster 1100 Evo. I also did a bit of racing; http://www.visordown.com/reader-arti...mbrey/702.html

After riding very quick bikes (2004 R1 and a Blade) there aren't any obtainable cars that feel really fast.

Regards

[Aragorn30d]

You do realise the M "chassis" is no different to the E9x right?

Its the same car.

It has some tweaks to its suspension parts, flared arches and whatnot, but its largely the same machine. In the same way a 318d is largely the same machine as a 335i, it just happens to have a different engine in the front.

I'm not sure i've actually seen many people "turning their car into an M3" either. Folk happen to own 335i's (or any other E9x model) and have modified them as they see fit.

If i happened to have a 318d SE and decide that i dislike the manky SE front bumper and install a nice looking 1M bumper instead, does that mean i'm "trying to turn my car into a 1M"? No, it means i dislike the look of the standard horrible bumper, and want to make it look nicer. Doing that using factory parts from a better spec car will often give a high quality "OEM+" finish, rather than what would result if i bought some fibreglass "bodykit" from ebay, so ofcourse it makes sense that i might elect to use factory parts from an M model or whatever.

My own 330d currently requires some suspension arms on the front end. I'll almost certainly buy M3 front arms for it instead of the stock parts, because they cost the same and provide improvements to the handling. Thats not because i want to turn my car into an M3, its because they're a simple viable upgrade to improve the car, and i'm changing them anyway.

gaza01 hit the nail on the head in post #28.