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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > What's this "+N psi" tuner stupidity on N55 tunes ?



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      06-13-2011, 02:44 PM   #1
tscdennab
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What's this "+N psi" tuner stupidity on N55 tunes ?

Are they afraid to say "19 psi" for fear of scaring their customers ?

I don't remember a tune being advertised as "+5 psi" for other cars, on other boards. The tuners just frankly tell the maximum psi on that tune. Wouldn't it be nice and respectful to customers to have the N55 tunes advertised at their true psi and not the "+3.5 psi" ?
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      06-13-2011, 03:00 PM   #2
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Cause it is a stupid boost controller that's why....
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      06-13-2011, 03:06 PM   #3
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which tunes
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      06-13-2011, 03:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorocious View Post
which tunes
Do you really need to ask?

I'll bite... They are talking about the Jb3 "specifically" and the Procede "somewhat"

Call it what you will, tune, boost controller, fully functional add-on chip... Don't matter... When it comes to the N55 you use what you can...

GIAC, DINAN and other flasher's don't have something for my N55 X5, so I use what I can to boost my performance... Not sure why some people have a problem how certain 'Tuners' do it... If it's not your cup of tea, oh well, you choose your tune and it works for you...
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      06-13-2011, 03:56 PM   #5
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Stock boost varies from 7-10psi. Telling customers you have +3.5psi over stock is much easier for them to understand in terms of aggression or what is being added. If you prefer to read it in terms of actual boost the N55 Stage1 runs 10.5psi-13.5psi with the default settings.

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      06-13-2011, 04:15 PM   #6
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Varies from 7-10? That's a pretty large gap haha. Does that mean it produces 10 at peak and tapers to 7? Or that it produces boost according to conditions?
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      06-13-2011, 04:45 PM   #7
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Why not advertise power gains Mike? Why confuse the customer with psi numbers? How can an N55 owner know what will the engine be outputting with extra 3.5psi?

Sounds fishy...
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      06-13-2011, 05:07 PM   #8
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The people on this board take this stuff way too seriously. It's how much over stock PSI the car is making. for example I run my car at +5 which means 5PSI over stock. a stock N55 peaks at 10psi and then tapers off, so my car peaks at 15 then tapers off.

Got it? ok good, now go something else to form a conspiracy about.
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      06-13-2011, 05:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dicker View Post
The people on this board take this stuff way too seriously. It's how much over stock PSI the car is making. for example I run my car at +5 which means 5PSI over stock. a stock N55 peaks at 10psi and then tapers off, so my car peaks at 15 then tapers off.

Got it? ok good, now go something else to form a conspiracy about.
Yeah, I got it! Now can you explain to me how much your engine is supposed to be putting out with that +5?

Or is this something that boost controller fan boys like to talk about online: "Man I am running mine at +5!" or.. "I got you beat bro, I am at +10! Yeeeha!"
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      06-13-2011, 05:24 PM   #10
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I'm just wondering why is there this difference in stating the psi between the N54 and N55 tunes. Why the N54 tunes are like "16 psi" and the N55 tunes are like "+5psi" ?
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      06-13-2011, 05:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brey335i View Post
Varies from 7-10? That's a pretty large gap haha. Does that mean it produces 10 at peak and tapers to 7? Or that it produces boost according to conditions?
No....well yes it does taper off....but the DME runs load based programing which targets boost based on torque load. This allows a very consistent peak power in the stock car in varying conditions. So sea level on cool day...only 7 psi may be needed...but a little altitude and a hotter day...10 psi may be necessary. Even with the tune the N55's ecu is doing this to some extent.
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      06-13-2011, 05:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
I'm just wondering why is there this difference in stating the psi between the N54 and N55 tunes. Why the N54 tunes are like "16 psi" and the N55 tunes are like "+5psi" ?
Because the tunes for the N55 are not as advanced as the N54 yet from any company. Burger and Vishnu have been going at the N54 for quite awhile, so they can actually "target" what they want regardless of conditions.

A flash will never be able to do this as they work with in the DME's load based logic...so always +N psi...this is true of the N54 to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Yeah, I got it! Now can you explain to me how much your engine is supposed to be putting out with that +5?

Or is this something that boost controller fan boys like to talk about online: "Man I am running mine at +5!" or.. "I got you beat bro, I am at +10! Yeeeha!"
What in the world are you talking about?
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      06-13-2011, 07:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORCED AIR View Post
What in the world are you talking about?
When you advertise power adders, you advertise gains. What I am saying is that those stupid boost controllers are marketed in a way which obscures what you are actually gaining. +5psi tells me absolutely nothing about how much my engine output will increase.

That's what I am on about...
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      06-13-2011, 07:05 PM   #14
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+5 PSI over stock, is that really hard to understand.
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      06-13-2011, 07:06 PM   #15
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Gains posted here

http://burgertuning.com/N55_Jb_BMW_P...nce_Tuner.html

and

Here

http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n55/dyno/dyno.html



Realistic 60WHP are the normal gains. Saying how much a car will put out doesnt leave any room for exterior conditions that are uncontrollable like Elevation, Heat soak, Octane, other mods ETC

As you may not know, these tunes for the N55 somewhat scale the stock boost logic. By no accident, the stock DME has its own logic where boost can vary given certain conditions, thats why you cant pinpoint exactly how much boost as it will vary based on external conditions.
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Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 06-13-2011 at 07:14 PM.
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      06-13-2011, 07:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Yeah, I got it! Now can you explain to me how much your engine is supposed to be putting out with that +5?

Or is this something that boost controller fan boys like to talk about online: "Man I am running mine at +5!" or.. "I got you beat bro, I am at +10! Yeeeha!"

..too funny.
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      06-13-2011, 07:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
When you advertise power adders, you advertise gains. What I am saying is that those stupid boost controllers are marketed in a way which obscures what you are actually gaining. +5psi tells me absolutely nothing about how much my engine output will increase.

That's what I am on about...
Why do you get to say how things are marketed? If it raises boost 5 psi over what the DME is targeting then what is wrong with advertising as such?

Because power gain isn't a linear equation with boost it makes no sense to say x hp gain when it is more accurate to tell the customer n psi over stock.

And what is with the "boost controller" thing...there are not any setups on the market that operate only as a boost controller. The closest being the JB2 or JB+...whichever it is.
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      06-13-2011, 07:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
When you advertise power adders, you advertise gains. What I am saying is that those stupid boost controllers are marketed in a way which obscures what you are actually gaining. +5psi tells me absolutely nothing about how much my engine output will increase.

That's what I am on about...
This forum should have an IQ test when signing up!......


After reading your comments/statements I wonder how you even function and or can get through the day....They say humans use 10% of there brain,obviously they were not talking about you!. your more of NEGATIVE 10%..
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      06-13-2011, 07:27 PM   #19
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He isn't normally a complete idiot...he is just on a fanboi fueled for some reason...for what exactly I am not sure
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      06-13-2011, 07:35 PM   #20
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N55 is such fail when it comes to aftermarket tuning.
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      06-13-2011, 08:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
I'm just wondering why is there this difference in stating the psi between the N54 and N55 tunes. Why the N54 tunes are like "16 psi" and the N55 tunes are like "+5psi" ?
The factory N54 and N55 tuning varies boot based air density to keep power consistent. At lower densities it also runs additional boost to make up for the extra pumping losses. The result is the factory boost can vary from 7-10psi peak depending on the elevation and weather while keeping power output more or less constant. It always has a heavy amount of taper after peak boost.

With the N54 the JB4 uses an absolute targeting system regardless of air density. Which is the real strength of N54 piggybacks vs. the N54 flash tunes out today. The tuning logic then adjusts that absolute target as needed. Users use a preset map or enters their own. Since their interface deals with absolute targets they will say "13psi", "15psi tapering to 12psi at redline", etc.

With the N55 the JB Stage1 adds boost to the factory boost target. The user can enter the maximum amount of boost allowable over the factory target. The default is +3.5psi. So, you'll see N55 Stage 1 users talking about +3.5psi, +5psi, etc, as that is how their interface is setup.

And of course with flash tuning boost is all over the place based on air density like the OEM logic so you'd have a range. Say 13-16psi from cold to hot, etc.

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      06-13-2011, 08:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
N55 is such fail when it comes to aftermarket tuning.
+1..even the new 1M is still on the n54 platform..must be a solid reason for that.
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