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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > What's this "+N psi" tuner stupidity on N55 tunes ?



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      06-13-2011, 09:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The factory N54 and N55 tuning varies boot based air density to keep power consistent. At lower densities it also runs additional boost to make up for the extra pumping losses. The result is the factory boost can vary from 7-10psi peak depending on the elevation and weather while keeping power output more or less constant. It always has a heavy amount of taper after peak boost.

With the N54 the JB4 uses an absolute targeting system regardless of air density. Which is the real strength of N54 piggybacks vs. the N54 flash tunes out today. The tuning logic then adjusts that absolute target as needed. Users use a preset map or enters their own. Since their interface deals with absolute targets they will say "13psi", "15psi tapering to 12psi at redline", etc.

With the N55 the JB Stage1 adds boost to the factory boost target. The user can enter the maximum amount of boost allowable over the factory target. The default is +3.5psi. So, you'll see N55 Stage 1 users talking about +3.5psi, +5psi, etc, as that is how their interface is setup.

And of course with flash tuning boost is all over the place based on air density like the OEM logic so you'd have a range. Say 13-16psi from cold to hot, etc.

Mike
like I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
+1..even the new 1M is still on the n54 platform..must be a solid reason for that.
This has more to do with the N55 being untested during 1M development. The tune pkg on the 1M has already been available for the most part in the form of the "Performance Power Package," so given the very limited timeframe they had to design the 1M it only makes sense to go with the N54.
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      06-13-2011, 09:30 PM   #24
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Cool well i guess its a wait and see on what tuners will coax outta outta the n55.
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      06-14-2011, 03:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The factory N54 and N55 tuning varies boot based air density to keep power consistent. At lower densities it also runs additional boost to make up for the extra pumping losses. The result is the factory boost can vary from 7-10psi peak depending on the elevation and weather while keeping power output more or less constant. It always has a heavy amount of taper after peak boost.

With the N54 the JB4 uses an absolute targeting system regardless of air density. Which is the real strength of N54 piggybacks vs. the N54 flash tunes out today. The tuning logic then adjusts that absolute target as needed. Users use a preset map or enters their own. Since their interface deals with absolute targets they will say "13psi", "15psi tapering to 12psi at redline", etc.

With the N55 the JB Stage1 adds boost to the factory boost target. The user can enter the maximum amount of boost allowable over the factory target. The default is +3.5psi. So, you'll see N55 Stage 1 users talking about +3.5psi, +5psi, etc, as that is how their interface is setup.

And of course with flash tuning boost is all over the place based on air density like the OEM logic so you'd have a range. Say 13-16psi from cold to hot, etc.
Mike
Somehow you managed to turn this into a negative for flash tunes. If I interpret your point if view correctly, you believe that it's good that the car is fast early in the morning when it's cold outside, and slow during lunchtime when the temps are up.

I don't know about the rest of the people on the board, but I like consistency in cars.
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      06-14-2011, 04:13 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post

With the N55 the JB Stage1 adds boost to the factory boost target. The user can enter the maximum amount of boost allowable over the factory target. The default is +3.5psi. So, you'll see N55 Stage 1 users talking about +3.5psi, +5psi, etc, as that is how their interface is setup.
The default setting for JB n55 Stage 1 is actually 2.75
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      06-14-2011, 05:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJS View Post
Somehow you managed to turn this into a negative for flash tunes. If I interpret your point if view correctly, you believe that it's good that the car is fast early in the morning when it's cold outside, and slow during lunchtime when the temps are up.

I don't know about the rest of the people on the board, but I like consistency in cars.
I dont think he meant as a negative .
Maybe he sells more piggys..

I agree a flash is safer, consistent, n more reliable w repeatibilty.. It use the torque targeting model unlike piggys which use boost targets. So at cooler temps u hit torque targets at lower boost..conversely higher temps u will boost higher.

Either way the point is mute b/c flashes are still in the works for the n55..so its all piggys for now.
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      06-14-2011, 07:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Either way the point is mute b/c flashes are still in the works for the n55..so its all piggys for now.
there are a couple of N55s that have been flashed in Toronto by MarkD (vendor on this forum)
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      06-14-2011, 08:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony135 View Post
The default setting for JB n55 Stage 1 is actually 2.75
How'd you figure that? If you check out the N54tech.com site and look at what the Tuner himself posted up (Terry), it says 3.50... I'll even give you a link so you can see for yourself...

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7992

Back when it first shipped out it was 3.25 (at least mine was when I got it)... I may have been 2.75 at some point, but that's in contradiction to what is currently shown on the website...

I would love a Flash for my X5, but not a Benchload...
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      06-14-2011, 09:19 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJS View Post
Somehow you managed to turn this into a negative for flash tunes. If I interpret your point if view correctly, you believe that it's good that the car is fast early in the morning when it's cold outside, and slow during lunchtime when the temps are up.

I don't know about the rest of the people on the board, but I like consistency in cars.
He didn't say anything negative just stated the facts. And yes...it is good that the power varies with conditions...that is the way it should be and has been since the engine was invented. It still does under stock DME or flash control to some extent as it is load targeting boost but can't adjust the air density's effect on turbo spool, etc. Why would you want to wait for a cool day to drive to a low elevation track just to have you car run nearly the same power level it did before? Or have your turbos being constantly overrun at elevation in the summer?
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      06-14-2011, 10:17 AM   #31
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Therefore when you read about the stock boost on the n55 or the n54 thats "stupid" data since it could vary in different weather conditions?

+2.75 is only a max psi over your original dme boost level.

Very easy concept to grasp I think.
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      06-14-2011, 04:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkish335 View Post
there are a couple of N55s that have been flashed in Toronto by MarkD (vendor on this forum)
Yea i am saying is they are limited numbers of flashes..piggys are presently the predominant tune for the n55
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      06-14-2011, 08:14 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJS View Post
Somehow you managed to turn this into a negative for flash tunes. If I interpret your point if view correctly, you believe that it's good that the car is fast early in the morning when it's cold outside, and slow during lunchtime when the temps are up.

I don't know about the rest of the people on the board, but I like consistency in cars.
To each their own. I'd rather have the car be as fast as it safely can be when its cold out and as fast as it safely can be when its hot out. When its cold out you can run more aggressively safely so why not take advantage of that? When its hot out you need to dial back power to avoid knock so why not also do that?

Mike
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      06-14-2011, 08:58 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
To each their own. I'd rather have the car be as fast as it safely can be when its cold out and as fast as it safely can be when its hot out. When its cold out you can run more aggressively safely so why not take advantage of that? When its hot out you need to dial back power to avoid knock so why not also do that?Mike
I think a flash accomplishes this very nicely..running lower boost b/c u hit torque targets in cooler weather doesnt diminsh the power u make..granted u "could" dial up the boost in the cold n make more power..which is the premise behind a piggy but then u would have to trade off the smoothness and reliabilty of a flash..power is useless if u r limping or inconsistent in your runs.but hey it really boils down to what u prefer as u stated.
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      07-07-2011, 11:10 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
I think a flash accomplishes this very nicely..running lower boost b/c u hit torque targets in cooler weather doesnt diminsh the power u make..granted u "could" dial up the boost in the cold n make more power..which is the premise behind a piggy but then u would have to trade off the smoothness and reliabilty of a flash..power is useless if u r limping or inconsistent in your runs.but hey it really boils down to what u prefer as u stated.
I don't know if this is true. I've been running a piggy for about 2 years and I've had 1 limp because of the piggy. And that was actually because I was running it in NA mode and there are known adaptation issues with that. And smoothness to some is more gradual torque to others.

As far as inconsistent runs is concerned, I feel like upping the boost on a car to hit a load when its hot is similar to asking a horse to keep sprinting when its tired, hot and has no water. If the horse isn't feeling good, why make it work harder so that it can run as fast as it does on days that it is?


Of course, different strokes for different folks. I feel that flashes have strengths, particularly in way they are installed. But I have never understood the perceived advantage of load targeting.
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